atljar

Id be hard pressed to say using Gm equipment to program their own cars, with their own software is hacking, but

RC000E

It's nothing that hasn't been done for decades. Companies have been tuning factory ECU's using OEM base code to start with, then modifying it. Stands to reason that the future will lead to "tuning" every module...it's just a matter of time.

AUTO_X_AL

If you use GM equipment and work there, you have resources that most don't.

HP tuners told us that they weren't developing the E92 ECM with the new GM software citing exactly what I stated earlier.

RC000E

As long as demand exists, electronics will be altered....that's all there is to it. If companies have to create an entire set of replacement modules, if the market warrants it, they'll do it. Are you implying that the OEM's are "shutting it down" and that is no longer going to happen...not sure if I'm misinterpreting you or not.

AUTO_X_AL

Car hacking has been a problem and the new security protocol will make it much more difficult to get into the ECM and alter. We've gone on to develop a stand alone unit to piggyback onto the stock ECM. There has been a huge variance in the software from 14 to 15 to 16.

Don't forget that Mary Barra just invited every hacker in the world to hack GM cars to see what is being exploited.

I'm just saying that this is going to get exponentially harder going forward. That's all.

RC000E

The problem is you've got smart people on both sides of the aisle. The OEM's will not stop modification...I don't care what they do. As soon as someone says something is unhackable, someone is going to prove that isn't so. With niche cars it's one thing, but with Corvettes and Mustangs and other heavily bought and modified platforms there's too much money potential for the aftermarket to ignore. If it isn't tuning the factory ecm, it'll be piggybacks or an entire plugin standalone.

atljar

I work in the automotive world, yes. But its simply a matter of telling a technician what you want, and assuming they have half a brain it can be done. There aren't many flat rate techs out there that will turn down an hour or two programming job that only takes them a few min of setup.


Agreed. As I said before, I work in the automotive world (BMW). BMW for years has been trying to keep companies out of their DMEs (ECU). Dinan is one of the major players in aftermarket tuning, and when the new F cars were released, BMW proudly stated they were unhackable.

Dinan then quickly stated they "could" still hack the DME software, but the time and effort it would take was no longer worth it. Within 6-8months, they had developed a piggyback system that still allows full tuning capabilities.

OEM are going to continue to try, but its a cat and mouse game at best.

descartesfool

AMG just brought out the GT-S last year. There are now at least 5 companies making either re-tuned ECUs' or piggyback ECU's, including one that is racing a pair of the GT-S's in Pirelli Wold Challenge this year, Weistec.

Seems it doesn't take very long to hack the latest ECU's when power is at stake. Power corrupts!

Bill Dearborn

Changing engine tuning is a hell of a lot easier than changing suspension tuning in the software. Even if the software is open for everybody to modify. There are a hell of a lot of variables that have to be taken into account when tuning the shocks, springs, stabilizer bars and bushings and any electronics involved with controlling the suspension.

It isn't something the local tuner down the street knows much about or has the ability to test once they make their changes. The test comes when the Customer installs everything and goes out for that first ride. If they make it back without wrapping the car around a pole they may be very lucky. As mentioned before just changing the front stabilizer bar bushings caused a drastic change in handling. Shops like LG may have the knowledge and experience to do the adjustments, programming and testing if they could get access to the modules but the amount of testing required may make the product very expensive. What will probably come out of their efforts is a coil over setup that has been tuned by Lou with some ability for Customers to make changes just as they do with current coil over setups.

Bill

atljar

I wasnt advocating "Tuning" the suspension like you would tune the ECM. But rather simply copying GMs calibration that they were using on car setup A and uploading that, unmodified, into car B which the driver has already changed over all physical suspension parts from A to B as well.

Widgeon5

Excellent point, excellent analogy.

Niemienator

69427

[QUOTE=CPhelps;1591396909]Fighter jets are designed inherently unstable such that computer assistance is required to fly them, because it grants them increased maneuverability. I think we're getting to the point where sports cars are starting to be similar to that.[/QUOTE]

Respectfully, I disagree. If a fighter pilot is killed because the software (for a very brief instant) wasn't smart enough or fast reacting enough to prevent a mishap/crash, there's little chance that the pilot's family is going to sue the government or the plane's manufacturer.

If GM intentionally made a vehicle that was inherently unstable (but equipped with software nanny bandaids/corrections) and sold it to the public, they just produced the biggest piece of lawyer bait possible. The first time a driver is killed (whether due to his own stupidity, or a speed/acceleration/road combination that was unimagined during the design/calibration process), the lawsuits that would happen would make the GM ignition switch and VW emissions lawsuits look pale in comparison.

It's been my experience that you can't design/calibrate/test a part or vehicle to just the "normal" design/calibration/testing specs. In the back of your mind you have to keep thinking is there anything at all in the product's operation that would/could invite the sleaziest of lawyers to sue the corporation for big money. You're not only protecting the customer and the corporation by thinking about "out of the box" possible problems, you're also increasing your chances of keeping a steady paycheck flow twice a month.

YMMV