[ANSWERED] The Relationship of "Racecar to Streetcar" Within Corvette
08-16-2016, 10:43 AM
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[ANSWERED] The Relationship of "Racecar to Streetcar" Within Corvette
Mod note:The man who asked this question: RC000E, was banned from the Corvette Forum between the time he asked the question and when it finally won the vote to be sent to Tadge. Since it's such an interesting topic (and the answer is a good read!) I decided to send it.
Original question is here.
Original question is here.
RC000E asked:
Since Corvette/Chevrolet's direct involvement in ALMS beginning in 1999, could you describe the evolution/intensity/milestones of the relationship between the racing side of the Corvette and the factory side? We've seen multiple facets of the program have been transferred in house, from the engines (formerly Katech) to the frames of the C7.R being built in house, etc. Has the racing sides influence increased exponentially with time would you say, and as chief engineer, how critical do you feel the racing teams involvement is to the future of Corvette as a brand? If at all possible, some words from Doug Fehan as well, on this subject, would be fantastic!
Since Corvette/Chevrolet's direct involvement in ALMS beginning in 1999, could you describe the evolution/intensity/milestones of the relationship between the racing side of the Corvette and the factory side? We've seen multiple facets of the program have been transferred in house, from the engines (formerly Katech) to the frames of the C7.R being built in house, etc. Has the racing sides influence increased exponentially with time would you say, and as chief engineer, how critical do you feel the racing teams involvement is to the future of Corvette as a brand? If at all possible, some words from Doug Fehan as well, on this subject, would be fantastic!
Tadge answered:
Wow, what a question! After 16 years and over 100 victories, there is enough material to write a book, a pretty long one (and a good one!).
Traditionally racing programs are marketing activities. Companies would try to make a link between the race program and street program, but the strongest statement they could muster was that the street car was “racing inspired”. If you think about that it really means nothing tangible about the connection. And in fact, traditionally, there has been virtually no connection. Race teams were funded by marketing departments and contracts were awarded to independent companies who did their best given their budget to produce victories and airtime for their customers. Contracts tended to be short term with lots of turn over and virtually no interaction between the working level people on race and street car teams. Aside from VIP seating at races, there was no influence on the people responsible for the street car. The C5.R, C6.R and C7.R programs changed that in a fundamental way. Having a long term commitment to endurance racing has enabled us to tear down the walls between the race team and production team. It didn’t happen overnight and is still evolving today. I have been lucky enough to be on the Corvette team for the entire time and have had a front row seat for the show!
The question suggests input from Doug Fehan, our Corvette Racing Program Manager. Doug has been with the program since inception and was, more than anyone, the visionary and prime motivator to get the program where it is today. He is more than a business partner. Like many on the race team, I consider him a friend. I asked him for a quick take on this question and here’s what he had to say:
Wow, what a question! After 16 years and over 100 victories, there is enough material to write a book, a pretty long one (and a good one!).
Traditionally racing programs are marketing activities. Companies would try to make a link between the race program and street program, but the strongest statement they could muster was that the street car was “racing inspired”. If you think about that it really means nothing tangible about the connection. And in fact, traditionally, there has been virtually no connection. Race teams were funded by marketing departments and contracts were awarded to independent companies who did their best given their budget to produce victories and airtime for their customers. Contracts tended to be short term with lots of turn over and virtually no interaction between the working level people on race and street car teams. Aside from VIP seating at races, there was no influence on the people responsible for the street car. The C5.R, C6.R and C7.R programs changed that in a fundamental way. Having a long term commitment to endurance racing has enabled us to tear down the walls between the race team and production team. It didn’t happen overnight and is still evolving today. I have been lucky enough to be on the Corvette team for the entire time and have had a front row seat for the show!
The question suggests input from Doug Fehan, our Corvette Racing Program Manager. Doug has been with the program since inception and was, more than anyone, the visionary and prime motivator to get the program where it is today. He is more than a business partner. Like many on the race team, I consider him a friend. I asked him for a quick take on this question and here’s what he had to say:
From Doug Fehan:
From the very beginning, the Race Program's objective has been to integrate itself into every aspect of Chevrolet's business. Clearly, the buy-in from Dave Hill's engineering group, at the onset of the program, was critical and served as our initial cornerstone from which to build. That, in turn, opened the doors within Tom Peter's design team and all of the Chevrolet sales, marketing and advertising groups. The Corvette Racing mantra has always been "racing is more than a checkered flag and a trophy". I think there is no better example of that than the current C7.R which is the embodiment of 16 years of effort to bring our customer a road-worthy product that is as close to the high-performance race car as possible. From its’ light-weight aluminum frame, composite body materials, advanced aerodynamics, performance-based seating to it's amazing drivetrain capabilities, the C7.R is truly representative of a meaningful collaboration between Tadge's design team and the race team. Our customers serve as an impressive testament to the success of our philosophy.
From the very beginning, the Race Program's objective has been to integrate itself into every aspect of Chevrolet's business. Clearly, the buy-in from Dave Hill's engineering group, at the onset of the program, was critical and served as our initial cornerstone from which to build. That, in turn, opened the doors within Tom Peter's design team and all of the Chevrolet sales, marketing and advertising groups. The Corvette Racing mantra has always been "racing is more than a checkered flag and a trophy". I think there is no better example of that than the current C7.R which is the embodiment of 16 years of effort to bring our customer a road-worthy product that is as close to the high-performance race car as possible. From its’ light-weight aluminum frame, composite body materials, advanced aerodynamics, performance-based seating to it's amazing drivetrain capabilities, the C7.R is truly representative of a meaningful collaboration between Tadge's design team and the race team. Our customers serve as an impressive testament to the success of our philosophy.
Tadge continues:
The truth is that the current 7th generation Corvette would not be what it is without the racing program. Even in its’ 4th model year, the Stingray, Z06 and now Grand Sport are selling in record numbers. The combination of performance, technology and function-driven good looks is compelling to customers. And using racing strategies is at the core of that appeal. The specifics are too numerous to go into fully, but almost every surface on the car and all the performance hardware has come from racing either directly or indirectly.
We share engineering development both ways…. Sometimes it is the production side doing the heavy lifting like in our light, stiff aluminum structure, engine development or in air conditioning systems. The race team takes the lead with the aerodynamic tools, brake cooling and tire technology.
Doug Louth is the Chief Engineer of the race program and has been my counterpart in this partnership for a long time. He is also a friend and had this to say about what we are doing:
The truth is that the current 7th generation Corvette would not be what it is without the racing program. Even in its’ 4th model year, the Stingray, Z06 and now Grand Sport are selling in record numbers. The combination of performance, technology and function-driven good looks is compelling to customers. And using racing strategies is at the core of that appeal. The specifics are too numerous to go into fully, but almost every surface on the car and all the performance hardware has come from racing either directly or indirectly.
We share engineering development both ways…. Sometimes it is the production side doing the heavy lifting like in our light, stiff aluminum structure, engine development or in air conditioning systems. The race team takes the lead with the aerodynamic tools, brake cooling and tire technology.
Doug Louth is the Chief Engineer of the race program and has been my counterpart in this partnership for a long time. He is also a friend and had this to say about what we are doing:
From Doug Louth:
From the start of the program, sharing of objectives and design concepts between the road car and race car teams led to better cars on both sides. This evolved into the sharing of engineering processes and tools. One of the earliest examples was the use of the race program’s CFD tools, processes, and personnel to support Tadge’s team in finding a solution to an urgent brake cooling challenge. This was the first of many programs where the racing engineers worked closely and collaboratively with the road car engineers and leveraged the strong capabilities from both groups to be successful. Now this collaboration has evolved into a wide array of projects/programs and is fundamental to the development of both the road and race cars. It has been extremely rewarding for motorsport personnel to participate and contribute as regular members of the road car development team in recent years. The immense array of objectives and requirements involved in fielding a new road car, and the organization, people, processes, and tools used to integrate and deliver on these have been an extremely positive influence on the way the race cars are developed. In turn, the tools and processes developed around racing’s relatively single-minded approach to performance have in turn been valuable additions to the road car program. Finally, this collaboration extends more and more beyond the Corvette road car team to the greater GM and some of the core engineering groups that develop all of GM’s products. Racing is exciting and rewarding in many ways, but the knowledge that the hard work to perform on track may be improving the cars that thousands of people drive every day is a major source of gratification for our racing team members.
From the start of the program, sharing of objectives and design concepts between the road car and race car teams led to better cars on both sides. This evolved into the sharing of engineering processes and tools. One of the earliest examples was the use of the race program’s CFD tools, processes, and personnel to support Tadge’s team in finding a solution to an urgent brake cooling challenge. This was the first of many programs where the racing engineers worked closely and collaboratively with the road car engineers and leveraged the strong capabilities from both groups to be successful. Now this collaboration has evolved into a wide array of projects/programs and is fundamental to the development of both the road and race cars. It has been extremely rewarding for motorsport personnel to participate and contribute as regular members of the road car development team in recent years. The immense array of objectives and requirements involved in fielding a new road car, and the organization, people, processes, and tools used to integrate and deliver on these have been an extremely positive influence on the way the race cars are developed. In turn, the tools and processes developed around racing’s relatively single-minded approach to performance have in turn been valuable additions to the road car program. Finally, this collaboration extends more and more beyond the Corvette road car team to the greater GM and some of the core engineering groups that develop all of GM’s products. Racing is exciting and rewarding in many ways, but the knowledge that the hard work to perform on track may be improving the cars that thousands of people drive every day is a major source of gratification for our racing team members.
Tadge again:
You put all that capability together and we get a synergy that makes us more than the sum of our people and organizations working independently.
My bottom line is that our future is intimately linked together and I predict great things to come!
You put all that capability together and we get a synergy that makes us more than the sum of our people and organizations working independently.
My bottom line is that our future is intimately linked together and I predict great things to come!
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08-16-2016, 07:24 PM
#3
They should probably make this book happen. the responses had a lot of positive feelings, but was light on examples of the impacts made. Any authors on the forum want to make that happen?
Last edited by Reason222; 08-16-2016 at 07:24 PM.
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Bischof (08-25-2016)
08-17-2016, 02:53 AM
#5
Drifting
Great post. Some I am certain is marketing puffery. But, years back the CEO of Lotus said that the race car division and the road car division have absolutely no correlation. This turned me off to the brand a bit.
I am glad to hear that they work together.
I am glad to hear that they work together.
Last edited by ElCid79; 08-17-2016 at 02:55 AM.
08-17-2016, 10:33 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
Great post!!
Fantastic job Corvette Team!!
Fantastic job Corvette Team!!
08-18-2016, 08:00 PM
#7
All that and a bag of chips!
08-18-2016, 09:27 PM
#8
Safety Car
I would love to have the race guys develop the engine and chassis at least to see what it would take to move the Corvette forward on track. Brakes are Italian, tires are French, and the aero looks very different to me from race car to street car and fairly unconventional for racing. I'm not sure how much input the race team could have had there except to come up with fixes just before the major design was finalized.
I do see the front brake ducts are substantial and centrally positioned but in either case the front CCB rotor is toast after 8 track days. The C8 will have to do a lot more in this respect or cut the weight down to C6Z levels to forgo the need for additional cooling.
I do see the front brake ducts are substantial and centrally positioned but in either case the front CCB rotor is toast after 8 track days. The C8 will have to do a lot more in this respect or cut the weight down to C6Z levels to forgo the need for additional cooling.
08-29-2016, 07:26 PM
#10
Race Director
More technology in todays Corvette than in the space shuttle .
We are right smack in the middle of what will be termed the Greatest Muscle Car Era in History .
I hope all those in charge of bringing these delightful cars to the showrooms know how much they are appreciated .
We are right smack in the middle of what will be termed the Greatest Muscle Car Era in History .
I hope all those in charge of bringing these delightful cars to the showrooms know how much they are appreciated .