[ANSWERED] What makes a Corvette a "Corvette"
02-03-2017, 05:07 PM
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[ANSWERED] What makes a Corvette a "Corvette"
The original question is here.
Clairvoyantwolf asked:
Is a corvette a “Corvette” if instead of large displacement high torque V8 it instead came with a small displacement high revving engine of whatever configuration? Are such concerns a consideration when developing a new model or generation? And how would you characterize the corvette driving experience, especially how it relates to your competitors?
Is a corvette a “Corvette” if instead of large displacement high torque V8 it instead came with a small displacement high revving engine of whatever configuration? Are such concerns a consideration when developing a new model or generation? And how would you characterize the corvette driving experience, especially how it relates to your competitors?
Tadge answered:
Corvette has stayed relevant for over 60 years by continually refining and improving the same basic formula: Powerful, responsive engine, intimate seating for 2, and a chassis tuned for maximum driving enjoyment. Couple that with exciting looks and reasonable attainability and you have a winning formula.
When we introduced the 7th generation car we used the words: State of the art performance technology, excellent power to weight ratio, and beautiful design. Although that mission has been consistent, the technology many details of the execution have evolved. The world keeps changing and the Corvette must as well.
Members of the Corvette team spend a lot of time with customers. We get plenty of input and some of it is conflicting. In a nutshell, we have to select the right combination of features and technology that we know will represent a good value proposition for our customers. That is the essence of our jobs. So, of course the character of the powertrain is a huge consideration when developing a new car. We have to balance the pressure from regulating bodies around the world trying to force manufacturers to do small displacement, high specific output engines with the desire of our customers who want lots of torque and the performance of a V8. Frequent readers of this section of the forum or attendees at many Corvette events around the country know we can't disclose any future product information. However you can trust me when I say we do everything in our power to right by our customers regardless of other pressures.
The question asks about the character of the driving experience versus our competitors. Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver. You could write a book on what makes a Corvette a Corvette (and some people have), but for us it boils down to creating a machine that gives many people the best possible driving experience.
Corvette has stayed relevant for over 60 years by continually refining and improving the same basic formula: Powerful, responsive engine, intimate seating for 2, and a chassis tuned for maximum driving enjoyment. Couple that with exciting looks and reasonable attainability and you have a winning formula.
When we introduced the 7th generation car we used the words: State of the art performance technology, excellent power to weight ratio, and beautiful design. Although that mission has been consistent, the technology many details of the execution have evolved. The world keeps changing and the Corvette must as well.
Members of the Corvette team spend a lot of time with customers. We get plenty of input and some of it is conflicting. In a nutshell, we have to select the right combination of features and technology that we know will represent a good value proposition for our customers. That is the essence of our jobs. So, of course the character of the powertrain is a huge consideration when developing a new car. We have to balance the pressure from regulating bodies around the world trying to force manufacturers to do small displacement, high specific output engines with the desire of our customers who want lots of torque and the performance of a V8. Frequent readers of this section of the forum or attendees at many Corvette events around the country know we can't disclose any future product information. However you can trust me when I say we do everything in our power to right by our customers regardless of other pressures.
The question asks about the character of the driving experience versus our competitors. Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver. You could write a book on what makes a Corvette a Corvette (and some people have), but for us it boils down to creating a machine that gives many people the best possible driving experience.
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02-03-2017, 09:06 PM
#2
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There you have it's never going to be a 2+2.
I believe it will be a lot easier for GM to keep building V8s now. VW and most of the industry (I should say regulators here) have realized that downsizing and turbos actually pollute more in real life conditions.
I believe it will be a lot easier for GM to keep building V8s now. VW and most of the industry (I should say regulators here) have realized that downsizing and turbos actually pollute more in real life conditions.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 02-03-2017 at 09:06 PM.
02-06-2017, 01:26 PM
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He did not say "front engine, rwd"
02-06-2017, 03:25 PM
#4
Nor did he say anything about any type of powertrain other than they "consider" the voice of the customer, but basically do what they have to.
This is actually the most interesting part for me:
"Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver."
Tadge has said in other interviews that they would go mid engine if and only if the whole car gets better. As someone who loves to use my Vette for long trips with my wife and trips to the track, if a mid engine corvette is coming, I am most interested in how they manage to make it as useful as the current car in day to day life.
This is actually the most interesting part for me:
"Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver."
Tadge has said in other interviews that they would go mid engine if and only if the whole car gets better. As someone who loves to use my Vette for long trips with my wife and trips to the track, if a mid engine corvette is coming, I am most interested in how they manage to make it as useful as the current car in day to day life.
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02-06-2017, 04:14 PM
#6
Nor did he say anything about any type of powertrain other than they "consider" the voice of the customer, but basically do what they have to.
This is actually the most interesting part for me:
"Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver."
Tadge has said in other interviews that they would go mid engine if and only if the whole car gets better. As someone who loves to use my Vette for long trips with my wife and trips to the track, if a mid engine corvette is coming, I am most interested in how they manage to make it as useful as the current car in day to day life.
This is actually the most interesting part for me:
"Our goal is a car that allows both track oriented high performance driving while also being accommodating for long road trips. We want an exotic driving experience without the exotic hassles. We want the car to be everything from a super-capable track machine and an easy-to-live-with daily driver."
Tadge has said in other interviews that they would go mid engine if and only if the whole car gets better. As someone who loves to use my Vette for long trips with my wife and trips to the track, if a mid engine corvette is coming, I am most interested in how they manage to make it as useful as the current car in day to day life.
02-06-2017, 07:44 PM
#7
Safety Car
GM is going to try to get all in the ME platform, affordability, and storage room. Watch.
1. Despite the DOHC architecture coming out, they can still use the LT1 as a base engine to allow for storage on top of the engine bay a la McLaren 570S.
2. The proportions of the mule are giant for an ME car. I think GM is going for Aventador proportions not Hurracan.
Too bad they'll kill the manual transmission.
1. Despite the DOHC architecture coming out, they can still use the LT1 as a base engine to allow for storage on top of the engine bay a la McLaren 570S.
2. The proportions of the mule are giant for an ME car. I think GM is going for Aventador proportions not Hurracan.
Too bad they'll kill the manual transmission.
02-07-2017, 04:40 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
Its too complex and expensive to make both on the same line. Name another car that comes in front engine and mid engine configurations.
02-08-2017, 04:39 AM
#10
One percenters buy Porsches Tadge. The Corvette demographic is somewhat more johnny lunchpail. Always has been. I hope GM bears that in mind. The world doesn't need another McLaren or Ferrari. Maybe a C8 with AWD and a hybrid drivetrain for a base price of $60K or less - with somewhere to put your bicycle or 11 bags of groceries.
Last edited by patentcad; 02-08-2017 at 04:40 AM.
02-10-2017, 04:40 PM
#11
Safety Car
Two huge keys to Corvette sales volume (30K-40K units annually after a generational re-design) are accessible price and a sports car that is easy to live with. A car with a large rear cargo hold addresses the latter. If you lose that with a mid-engine ca rthen think of all the trips you'd have to leave the Corvette home for - now it's not so easy to live with. I seriously shopped a BMW M4 as it is. The Corvette won me over for a number of reasons, but if I couldn't fit my road bicycle in the cargo area (wheels off, no problem) I'd have a BMW in my garage. Ditto on the price. My net out the door cost was $63K, and that is a serious stretch for me, but the car is worth it. $10K more might well have broke this camel's back. I think I'm a reasonably average Corvette buyer: 50-60 years old, affluent but not rich.
One percenters buy Porsches Tadge. The Corvette demographic is somewhat more johnny lunchpail. Always has been. I hope GM bears that in mind. The world doesn't need another McLaren or Ferrari. Maybe a C8 with AWD and a hybrid drivetrain for a base price of $60K or less - with somewhere to put your bicycle or 11 bags of groceries.
One percenters buy Porsches Tadge. The Corvette demographic is somewhat more johnny lunchpail. Always has been. I hope GM bears that in mind. The world doesn't need another McLaren or Ferrari. Maybe a C8 with AWD and a hybrid drivetrain for a base price of $60K or less - with somewhere to put your bicycle or 11 bags of groceries.
I think the world needs more Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, and Corvettes. Heck, Vipers too. What I don't like is the sea of silver luxury cars are work. What a waste of life driving them.
02-10-2017, 06:22 PM
#12
Trust me on this, they go mid-engine on the Corvette and you can't carry anything in the car, their sales will drop 25%. Their sales will also drop off 5-10% for every $7-$8K they jack the base price.
If I were GM I'd replace the Z06 with a higher hp mid-engine car and call it the Zora-1, I'd peg the base price @ $80K -$90K tops. Then I'd develop a C8 for 2022 or so, give it AWD and try to keep the base price @ a max of $59,999.99.
I think that would work for them. I think they know it.
02-10-2017, 06:28 PM
#13
Safety Car
Or anything else.
Trust me on this, they go mid-engine on the Corvette and you can't carry anything in the car, their sales will drop 25%. Their sales will also drop off 5-10% for every $7-$8K they jack the base price.
If I were GM I'd replace the Z06 with a higher hp mid-engine car and call it the Zora-1, I'd peg the base price @ $80K -$90K tops. Then I'd develop a C8 for 2022 or so, give it AWD and try to keep the base price @ a max of $59,999.99.
I think that would work for them. I think they know it.
Trust me on this, they go mid-engine on the Corvette and you can't carry anything in the car, their sales will drop 25%. Their sales will also drop off 5-10% for every $7-$8K they jack the base price.
If I were GM I'd replace the Z06 with a higher hp mid-engine car and call it the Zora-1, I'd peg the base price @ $80K -$90K tops. Then I'd develop a C8 for 2022 or so, give it AWD and try to keep the base price @ a max of $59,999.99.
I think that would work for them. I think they know it.
Do not underestimate people's affection for good looking cars. People will empty the bank account for one if that's all they can think of all day. They will have to have it.
I guarantee you the rich die hard Corvette owners will own both the FMR and the MR. They already own C5 C6 and C7 at the same time, and these last three are nearly the same car. An ME will be like stepping into the future Corvette by comparison.
IMO if you want cheap and to carry groceries give up on AWD. At least you'll have a front trunk. AWD ain't cheap when we're talking 700hp, and it does take up some room in the front cradle.
02-10-2017, 09:31 PM
#14
That's me. If it loses the practicality I'll be driving a BMW, an older Corvette I buy used, or there won't be a sports car.
I love cars and I love Corvettes, but make no mistake, they are expensive toys. Very expensive.
They are fun. I wouldn't blow my hard earned money on anything else this pointless.
02-11-2017, 10:32 AM
#15
I don't think the average corvette buyer wants a point A to A car, even if they use it as such. The real beauty of the current platform is that it can be used as a car. Breathtaking styling gets you buyers for a year or two (especially at corvette production rates), but those buyers have no brand loyalty and move on to the hot new car when they are tired of their current one.
02-11-2017, 11:04 AM
#16
I don't think the average corvette buyer wants a point A to A car, even if they use it as such. The real beauty of the current platform is that it can be used as a car. Breathtaking styling gets you buyers for a year or two (especially at corvette production rates), but those buyers have no brand loyalty and move on to the hot new car when they are tired of their current one.
02-11-2017, 06:27 PM
#17
Safety Car
Of the 893 used 2014 Corvettes for sale 598 have under 15,000 miles. I'd say that's very low use for a 3 year old car. Most Corvette owners must have a second car to haul stuff in.
BMW 3 series: 172/4102
Corvette: 598/893
Have I made my point or what?
02-11-2017, 06:40 PM
#18
Here is one way to look at it. I went on Autotrader just now and looked at Corvettes to see how driven they are on average. If they are a Sunday only car then it won't need a lot of cargo room.
Of the 893 used 2014 Corvettes for sale 598 have under 15,000 miles. I'd say that's very low use for a 3 year old car. Most Corvette owners must have a second car to haul stuff in.
BMW 3 series: 172/4102
Corvette: 598/893
Have I made my point or what?
Of the 893 used 2014 Corvettes for sale 598 have under 15,000 miles. I'd say that's very low use for a 3 year old car. Most Corvette owners must have a second car to haul stuff in.
BMW 3 series: 172/4102
Corvette: 598/893
Have I made my point or what?
Last edited by patentcad; 02-11-2017 at 06:41 PM.
02-11-2017, 07:02 PM
#19
Safety Car
I guess you're not reading my posts. The reason I want cargo room is because I would be unable to use the car many of the times I currently use it without the cargo space. So it's important to me. I'm very happy I can still use the car and I'm always thinking 'I'd have to drive my boring car if this Corvette couldn't handle this stuff.' But we'll have to see whether it matters to a wider spectrum of Corvette buyers. I think it does more than you realize.
02-21-2017, 02:44 PM
#20
Pro
I think that's a profound misunderstanding of a typical Corvette buyer. They're not so rich from all the evidence I see. I'm sure there are enough one percenter rich guys buying the cars, but I'll bet 75-80% are upper middle income guys like me who have the means to buy the car. But it's a stretch for many (it was for me). It's an aspirational car. And it has to be somewhat practical for many buyers.
That's me. If it loses the practicality I'll be driving a BMW, an older Corvette I buy used, or there won't be a sports car.
I love cars and I love Corvettes, but make no mistake, they are expensive toys. Very expensive.
They are fun. I wouldn't blow my hard earned money on anything else this pointless.
That's me. If it loses the practicality I'll be driving a BMW, an older Corvette I buy used, or there won't be a sports car.
I love cars and I love Corvettes, but make no mistake, they are expensive toys. Very expensive.
They are fun. I wouldn't blow my hard earned money on anything else this pointless.
Space is also an issue for me. I like the fact that I can put enough luggage in the C7 for my wife and I to take a two week road trip as we did last year.
Finally, I'd like someone to explain to me how being mid-engine" is that significant an improvement. The existing C7 already has a 50/50 weight distribution front/rear. It seems to me like there is a lot of thinking along the lines of "Ferrari's are mid-engine so we have to be too" which seems to ma a logical fallacy. He gave us a pretty darn good definition of what a Corvette is supposed to be. and if you have to sacrifice any of those elements just in the name of being mid-engine then its no longer a Corvette.
