C5 stereo install question - having troubles here - PLEASE HELP!
03-02-2005, 06:56 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
C5 stereo install question - having troubles here - PLEASE HELP!
OK...this might end up getting a little long so bear with me. I'm getting really frustrated.
Alright...my install began last weekend. Below is what is being installed.
Pioneer AVH6600-DVD
JL Audio 450/4 amp
JL Audio XR653-CS components (being driven by amp above)
JL Audio VR525-CSI coaxials (also being driven by amp above)
JL Audio 500/1 amp
JL Audio stealthbox (being driven by amp above)
OK...I'm certainly no stereo expert but I thought I knew my fair share. I've got everything installed and everything functions. I am installing the component crossovers in the rear of the car due to limited space up front. I ran the 6 speaker wires (3 from each door) to the rear. Since I have always heard its good to keep the speaker wires away from the power I ran everything up the drivers side. I routed the 3 wires from the passenger side speakers up under the console and then under the drivers side carpet up to the rear. I ran the power wire (2ga) under the carpet and up the passenger side on the outer part of the passenger side. Also, my stereo has RCA outputs so I ran RCA cables also on the passenger side of the car but I ran them on the console side of the passenger area also to keep them away from the power wire.
OK...right now the 2 amps and the component crossovers are just sitting in the rear part of the car while I test everything out. I grounded 1 amp on the frame of the car to an existing bolt that was under some of the plastic behind the passenger seat. The other amp is grounded to a similar bolt on the drivers side under the plastic trim. I thought these were good grounds but I'm beginning to wonder about that.
Also, right now I just have the power cable hooked up with a ring terminal and it is attached to the little accessory bolt on the fuse relay under the engine. I dont know if I can leave it there permanently but that is all I have until I can get a thing to hook onto the battery.
Here is the problem I am having. Everything works fine. The amps turn on, the stereo is fine, the sub thumps, etc, etc. But....when I first turn the system on, out of the right front (channel 2) speakers, all I hear is static. It sounds like when you tune in a station where there isnt on. Now, this noise is present when the stereo is set to a ZERO volume, all of the other speakers are fine. If I turn the volume up, it will eventually drown out the static and sounds pretty damn good. In order to rule out a short in those particular speaker wires I switched some stuff around on the amp. I took the wires out of channel 1 (left front) and plugged them into channel 2 (right front). Now the static moves to those speakers. I tried the same with the rear speakers and the same thing happens. To make a long story a little shorter, no matter which speaker is plugged into it, the problem is ALWAYS out of Channel 2 on the amp.
Even if I COMPLETELY unplug the RCA INPUTS from the amp for all of the channels, the static is still there. This obviously tells me that the problem is not somehow related to the head unit.
What the hell is it? I think I've tried enough to rule out anything related to speaker wires and RCA cables. Everything is BRAND NEW.
Right now I'm either guessing that it has something to do with an interference running through my grounds or it is a bad channel on my amp. I guess it could possibly have something to do with the way I hooked the power up but I really doubt it.
1)What other options do I have for grounds so that I can try that and see if it goes away? This is a convertible so keep that in mind.
2) How can I test the amp itself to see if the problem is there?
Also...to make things a little more confusing.....if I leave everything on for somewhere between 5-10 minutes.....there is sort of a 'POP' and then the static completely goes away. Is that something in the electrical system cleaning out or is it something in the amp? Does that help give anyone any ideas?
I'm really sorry for the long post but there is no way I can ask this question without providing all possible info.
Alright...my install began last weekend. Below is what is being installed.
Pioneer AVH6600-DVD
JL Audio 450/4 amp
JL Audio XR653-CS components (being driven by amp above)
JL Audio VR525-CSI coaxials (also being driven by amp above)
JL Audio 500/1 amp
JL Audio stealthbox (being driven by amp above)
OK...I'm certainly no stereo expert but I thought I knew my fair share. I've got everything installed and everything functions. I am installing the component crossovers in the rear of the car due to limited space up front. I ran the 6 speaker wires (3 from each door) to the rear. Since I have always heard its good to keep the speaker wires away from the power I ran everything up the drivers side. I routed the 3 wires from the passenger side speakers up under the console and then under the drivers side carpet up to the rear. I ran the power wire (2ga) under the carpet and up the passenger side on the outer part of the passenger side. Also, my stereo has RCA outputs so I ran RCA cables also on the passenger side of the car but I ran them on the console side of the passenger area also to keep them away from the power wire.
OK...right now the 2 amps and the component crossovers are just sitting in the rear part of the car while I test everything out. I grounded 1 amp on the frame of the car to an existing bolt that was under some of the plastic behind the passenger seat. The other amp is grounded to a similar bolt on the drivers side under the plastic trim. I thought these were good grounds but I'm beginning to wonder about that.
Also, right now I just have the power cable hooked up with a ring terminal and it is attached to the little accessory bolt on the fuse relay under the engine. I dont know if I can leave it there permanently but that is all I have until I can get a thing to hook onto the battery.
Here is the problem I am having. Everything works fine. The amps turn on, the stereo is fine, the sub thumps, etc, etc. But....when I first turn the system on, out of the right front (channel 2) speakers, all I hear is static. It sounds like when you tune in a station where there isnt on. Now, this noise is present when the stereo is set to a ZERO volume, all of the other speakers are fine. If I turn the volume up, it will eventually drown out the static and sounds pretty damn good. In order to rule out a short in those particular speaker wires I switched some stuff around on the amp. I took the wires out of channel 1 (left front) and plugged them into channel 2 (right front). Now the static moves to those speakers. I tried the same with the rear speakers and the same thing happens. To make a long story a little shorter, no matter which speaker is plugged into it, the problem is ALWAYS out of Channel 2 on the amp.
Even if I COMPLETELY unplug the RCA INPUTS from the amp for all of the channels, the static is still there. This obviously tells me that the problem is not somehow related to the head unit.
What the hell is it? I think I've tried enough to rule out anything related to speaker wires and RCA cables. Everything is BRAND NEW.
Right now I'm either guessing that it has something to do with an interference running through my grounds or it is a bad channel on my amp. I guess it could possibly have something to do with the way I hooked the power up but I really doubt it.
1)What other options do I have for grounds so that I can try that and see if it goes away? This is a convertible so keep that in mind.
2) How can I test the amp itself to see if the problem is there?
Also...to make things a little more confusing.....if I leave everything on for somewhere between 5-10 minutes.....there is sort of a 'POP' and then the static completely goes away. Is that something in the electrical system cleaning out or is it something in the amp? Does that help give anyone any ideas?
I'm really sorry for the long post but there is no way I can ask this question without providing all possible info.
03-02-2005, 07:20 PM
#2
Team Owner
there are 2 possible sources for the problem...
1) the wiring. I would put ground and power straight to the battery. This will remove the fuse box and the alternator from the equation, somewhat.
2) The amp itself.
When I do an install, my biggest concern is running the RCAs as far away from power as possible. Speakers wire, due to the wattage, are less prone to picking up noise. The low level signal from the head is where a lot of noise comes from.
Try this. Get yourself some wire, both + and -, then run it to the battery directly. Hell, just drap it outside the car. Then test for noise.
What gauge of power wire are you using? For those amps, I would run at least a 2 gauge to the battery (both + and -) and then use a break out block to feed the amps, this time, at least 4 gauge.
I know that 2 gauge is garden hose, but good quality wire is not hard to run.
Normally, I run my RCAs and my speaker wire down the center of the car, then, split the wire off to each side, under the carpet.
The RCA and speaker wire will not bother each other one whit.
1) the wiring. I would put ground and power straight to the battery. This will remove the fuse box and the alternator from the equation, somewhat.
2) The amp itself.
When I do an install, my biggest concern is running the RCAs as far away from power as possible. Speakers wire, due to the wattage, are less prone to picking up noise. The low level signal from the head is where a lot of noise comes from.
Try this. Get yourself some wire, both + and -, then run it to the battery directly. Hell, just drap it outside the car. Then test for noise.
What gauge of power wire are you using? For those amps, I would run at least a 2 gauge to the battery (both + and -) and then use a break out block to feed the amps, this time, at least 4 gauge.
I know that 2 gauge is garden hose, but good quality wire is not hard to run.
Normally, I run my RCAs and my speaker wire down the center of the car, then, split the wire off to each side, under the carpet.
The RCA and speaker wire will not bother each other one whit.
03-02-2005, 07:37 PM
#3
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input. To add a little more to the story I am using the JL Audio 2 amp install kit. It is good up to 1400 watts and I am running 950. It has 2 gauge for the main power, a 1-to-2 distribution block, 4 gauge ground and 4 gauge for the power after it splits off the dist. block.
The RCA's are a couple of feet away from the power so I dont think that has anything to do with it. Plus, as I mentioned originally, the noise is still present even if I completely unplug them from the amp.
I was going to try to ground the amp directly to the battery just to test but I thought I heard that wasnt a great option. Plus, since I am grounding 2 amps, how would I manage that? The amp kit came with 10ft of the 4ga ground. I cut it in half when I ran the separate grounds so I only have 5 feet, not enough to get back to the battery.
I'm praying it isnt the amp itself because I mail ordered it from a place in California and have a feeling it will be hell trying to get them to swap it out.
The RCA's are a couple of feet away from the power so I dont think that has anything to do with it. Plus, as I mentioned originally, the noise is still present even if I completely unplug them from the amp.
I was going to try to ground the amp directly to the battery just to test but I thought I heard that wasnt a great option. Plus, since I am grounding 2 amps, how would I manage that? The amp kit came with 10ft of the 4ga ground. I cut it in half when I ran the separate grounds so I only have 5 feet, not enough to get back to the battery.
I'm praying it isnt the amp itself because I mail ordered it from a place in California and have a feeling it will be hell trying to get them to swap it out.
03-02-2005, 08:42 PM
#4
You are the proud owner of a FUBAR JL amp. Simple as that.
The amplifier is working fine, after the switching transistor stage in the amp. But apparently before that part of the circuity in the amp, something got sick.
Sinve you've already got that all that stuff installed, Just buy a temp amp or two at wally world or at a local shop, just to use till you get your replace your amp. I always keep an extra amp around just for stuff like that, but im not a normal corvette owner. I change the audio stuff in my car every couple of months, so I know just by simple bad luck at an amp may go south.
just a suggestion, since ive been in that situation before.
snoopdan
The amplifier is working fine, after the switching transistor stage in the amp. But apparently before that part of the circuity in the amp, something got sick.
Sinve you've already got that all that stuff installed, Just buy a temp amp or two at wally world or at a local shop, just to use till you get your replace your amp. I always keep an extra amp around just for stuff like that, but im not a normal corvette owner. I change the audio stuff in my car every couple of months, so I know just by simple bad luck at an amp may go south.
just a suggestion, since ive been in that situation before.
snoopdan
03-02-2005, 08:47 PM
#5
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by snoopdan
You are the proud owner of a FUBAR JL amp. Simple as that.
Unfortunately, at $600 per amp I cant really afford to have many of these laying around.
I just know that the shop I bought it from is going to give me the run around. I know JL is picky about "authorized retailers" and I honestly dont know if this place is one of them.
03-02-2005, 10:55 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2003
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I am going to have to agree with the amp being the source of the problem. The give away is the RCA being out. That is most likely your problem. I would try to return the amp...worse case have it repaired.
Now onto your other questions. You need to put the power directly to the battery. Also...I am assuming the wire is fused? If not it needs to be.
Your grounds...I never ever run the ground to the battery. It is not needed. You should have both grounds in the same location. I ground everything in the same location...radio,amp, and any processors. The spot you have it at works but is not likely the best place because it is sheet metal. I use a ground behind the passenger wheel. You can also do it in the drivers wheel. It is a bit harder to ground there but it is a direct chasis ground. You should also upgrade your factory gound and positive lead off of the alternator. You can either replace what is there or just add another wire. A spare piece of that 2ga on the neg terminal to the chasis will do the trick.
The only way to remove the alternator from the system is to physically remove the alternator.
All in all it sounds like you are going down the right road you just happen to get a bad amp. Honestly you are the first guy I have ever heard of getting a bad JL product out of the box. But it happens. You should be able to send it to JL for repair at the worse case scenario...better than having two amps like you said.
Now onto your other questions. You need to put the power directly to the battery. Also...I am assuming the wire is fused? If not it needs to be.
Your grounds...I never ever run the ground to the battery. It is not needed. You should have both grounds in the same location. I ground everything in the same location...radio,amp, and any processors. The spot you have it at works but is not likely the best place because it is sheet metal. I use a ground behind the passenger wheel. You can also do it in the drivers wheel. It is a bit harder to ground there but it is a direct chasis ground. You should also upgrade your factory gound and positive lead off of the alternator. You can either replace what is there or just add another wire. A spare piece of that 2ga on the neg terminal to the chasis will do the trick.
The only way to remove the alternator from the system is to physically remove the alternator.
All in all it sounds like you are going down the right road you just happen to get a bad amp. Honestly you are the first guy I have ever heard of getting a bad JL product out of the box. But it happens. You should be able to send it to JL for repair at the worse case scenario...better than having two amps like you said.
03-02-2005, 11:34 PM
#7
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by EatRice
I am going to have to agree with the amp being the source of the problem. The give away is the RCA being out.
Originally Posted by EatRice
Now onto your other questions. You need to put the power directly to the battery. Also...I am assuming the wire is fused? If not it needs to be.
Originally Posted by EatRice
Your grounds...I never ever run the ground to the battery. It is not needed. You should have both grounds in the same location. I ground everything in the same location...radio,amp, and any processors. The spot you have it at works but is not likely the best place because it is sheet metal. I use a ground behind the passenger wheel. You can also do it in the drivers wheel. It is a bit harder to ground there but it is a direct chasis ground.
Also, I was just using the ground wire in the factory radio harness for my radio ground. Is that not sufficient for that? I just thought I could maybe save on running another wire to the rear of the car.
Originally Posted by EatRice
You should also upgrade your factory gound and positive lead off of the alternator. You can either replace what is there or just add another wire. A spare piece of that 2ga on the neg terminal to the chasis will do the trick.
The only way to remove the alternator from the system is to physically remove the alternator.
The only way to remove the alternator from the system is to physically remove the alternator.
Originally Posted by EatRice
All in all it sounds like you are going down the right road you just happen to get a bad amp. Honestly you are the first guy I have ever heard of getting a bad JL product out of the box. But it happens. You should be able to send it to JL for repair at the worse case scenario...better than having two amps like you said.
Obviously the longer I wait the more problem I am going to have sending the amp back to whoever. Do you think it is 99% sure that the amp is bad or should I try to fix all the other stuff you mentioned and then try it again? It will probably take me another week to run new grounds and do the "Big 3" and the other stuff.
I just wish I had a way to test the amp out of the vehicle or in someone elses car but I dont know of any way to do that.
03-03-2005, 12:03 AM
#8
Originally Posted by 2k1 Vette
I just wish I had a way to test the amp out of the vehicle or in someone elses car but I dont know of any way to do that.
You have a car battery charger or old computer power supply? If so, those can be used for out of car tests with low yield amperage pull.
If you sense something like you said, that it had looked possibly used, gut feeling is usually right. A box can get easliy switched in an RMA department...sometimes they dont hire the brightest people.
One example, for a engineering firm I worked for, our products were typically 25-30k each that we sent out as RMA replacments, which went thru the same shipping department of new items...the got 5$ an hour people there packing millions of dollars of equipment weekly, and wonder why one customer recieved a mop bucket. Im sure JL is no different.
snoopdan
03-03-2005, 07:34 AM
#10
Melting Slicks
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Factory radio supplie wires are often noisy....ignition, constant, and ground. I always run my source unit and any extras I might have off of the same wire that powers my amps. I also ground everything to the same location. Also I do not directly connect any ignition wires up to my radios. I use a relay to turn on the radio and supply it with constant 12v.
To get to the wheel well I jack up the car and pull off the wheel and in the inner fender well. ONce the inner fender well is gone you will see the ground stud. I drill a hole in the small compartment in the trunk, install a grommet, and run the wire through. If I have some pics of mine I will send them to you.
To get to the wheel well I jack up the car and pull off the wheel and in the inner fender well. ONce the inner fender well is gone you will see the ground stud. I drill a hole in the small compartment in the trunk, install a grommet, and run the wire through. If I have some pics of mine I will send them to you.
03-03-2005, 09:16 AM
#11
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I'm on agreement with the others. It sure sounds like a channel on the amp is bad. With the RCAs unplugged and you switching speaker wires to another speaker and the problem followed the switch, seems like a sure bet the amp is your problem. I will also agree that you need to put your power cable straight to the battery.
This is how I did mine.
This is how I did mine.
03-03-2005, 09:31 AM
#12
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I'm still thinking that the amp itself is bad but I agree that I need to change the power and ground locations. I'm just a little curious how to do the power on the new top post batteries that came in the '04 C5's because they already have a huge clamp on them for the car power and there isnt any room to hook anything else on? I'll look into that a little further or else just get an Optima as pictured.
I'm going to try and somehow test this out of the car tonight just to rule out everything else. I'm still 99% sure its the amp itself but I want to be 100% sure.
As far as the question about the crossovers, yes, I was using them but honestly didnt pay much attention to the db setting but I flipped it around and it made no difference. I'm sure that had nothing to do with it anyways because after I experimented with different speakers I hooked it up to the rear JL's which are just coaxials and have no crossover and it still made the noise on them as well.
I'm going to contact the company I bought this stuff from and see just how many hoops they are going to make me jump through to exchange this. Hopefully its not too painful.
I'm going to try and somehow test this out of the car tonight just to rule out everything else. I'm still 99% sure its the amp itself but I want to be 100% sure.
As far as the question about the crossovers, yes, I was using them but honestly didnt pay much attention to the db setting but I flipped it around and it made no difference. I'm sure that had nothing to do with it anyways because after I experimented with different speakers I hooked it up to the rear JL's which are just coaxials and have no crossover and it still made the noise on them as well.
I'm going to contact the company I bought this stuff from and see just how many hoops they are going to make me jump through to exchange this. Hopefully its not too painful.
03-03-2005, 09:29 PM
#13
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I was just asking about the crossover settings because we had problems with some a couple batches ago. they made noise if you set them on the 24db setting. But they didn't on the 12db setting. But if you have noise regardless....I'd try to get another amp in there to test.