b.lee

Other than sound quality, why does the factory wiring need to be replaced when adding an aftermarket head unit and aftermarket door speakers/rear speakers?

I understand the system is powered, but since the new system is going to be powered by the cd player itself, why can't the existing wires be used?

Is it not possible to find the stock Bose amp, take it out and connect the needed wires at that location to use the stock wiring?

(the c5 audio FAQ doesn't have this info in it)

markcz

C5 does not have an external amp, only a bose 'processor'.

You CAN easily use the oem plug with an adapter if you only want to change out the radio.

If you install an aftermarket amp to power your speakers, that's when it's a bad idea to even try to use oem speaker wires.

Thrash

Use new wires everywhere, 14 gauge twisted-pair would be best, but monster works fine.

b.lee

I already have the new Pioneer Premier CD player installed,

I won't be installing any amps for the new aftermarket Kicker door speakers, those will be run off of the head unit itself. How can I utilize the stock speaker wiring?

And where is the bose 'processor' located at?

markcz

When you add aftermarket amp/speakers just run new wires. At that point the processor won't be used, but it's located above gas pedal if you feel like removing it.

b.lee

I'm trying to do anything possible TO NOT RUN NEW wires.
I've never done it on any previous cars, and not trying to start now.
And there will be NO aftermarket amp, only door speakers and rear speakers

I'll look at the bose 'processor' closer.
Seems it can be bypassed:



"Bose Bypass info

To bypass the Bose Signal Processor, make the following jumper using the C3 and C4 connectors in the wiring harness. Connect the following color wires together. Please check the wires per the info above.
There is two BLK wires, one is a signal wire and the other is connected to chassis ground, C3(4) is the one you want. Solder the connections and tape them up. Do not cut unused wires, you may want to add a power amp later and you will need these for signal returns.

C4(9) TAN/BLK connect to C3(1) DK GRN
C4(10) LT GRN/BLK connect to C3(2) LT GRN
C4(11) BRN connect to C3(3) BRN/WHT
C4(12) DK BLU connect to C3(4) BLK
C4(13) LT BLU connect to C4(7) YEL"




I found this info while seaching

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/2121360-post1.html

C5 Bose CD or cassette upgrade wiring notes

Bose CD/Cassette Stereo System Info:

The C5 Bose stereo system is based on a modified Delco head unit. The "Delco/Bose" head unit, CD or cassette, has four connectors called C1, C2, C3 and C4 on the rear panel. C1/C2, which is a single siamese connector, is used for many Delco head units, not just Bose. The wiring is different though in various cars. C1/C2 carry power, ground, BCM data and the front and rear speaker wires. There is no switched power on the C1/C2 connector, the BCM controls powering up the head unit. Connectors C3 and C4, provide interfaces to the head unit front/rear pre-amp outputs and front/rear power amp inputs. The pre-amp's audio outputs on connector C4 go to the BOSE Signal Processor, BSP, mounted above the throttle. The BSP "conditions" the front/rear audio signals and then sends them right back to the head unit internal 4 channel power amp. The basic crossover frequency of the BSP is 1 kHz. The BSP probably also does ambience and spatial enhancement to the audio signals. The BSP in the Coupe is different than in the Vert and FRC. The head unit internal power amp is about 15-18 watt rms/ch and drives the 4 front and rear Bose midrange/highs speakers called Twiddlers. The rear Twiddlers are 5.25" in the Vert and FRC, 6.5" in the Coupe and the fronts are 3.5" in all vehicles. The Bose system has no true tweeters. The BCP also sums the audio information from all 4 pre-amp input signals and sends it unfiltered to the two sub-woofer amplifiers in the doors. The sub amps have an internal low frequency crossover. These two class D sub amps feed two reverse cone 8" "sub-woofers" in the doors. They are mounted next to the front 3.5" Twiddlers behind the door speaker grills.

Some of the problems with the stock Bose system are:

1. Speaker placement. The mid/high frequency speakers are horribly placed. The front Twiddlers radiate at your feet and the rears radiate at each other. High frequency drivers are very directional like a flashlight. They need to point directly at the occupants.

2. Lack of highs. There are no tweeters in the C5 system. The system should have had pillar mount tweeters. The front Twiddlers are really upper mid-range drivers.

3. Gain imbalance. The subs level and the mid/highs level is not ideal. It seems that Bose/Delco is trying to use the bass control as a subs level control. It does not work correctly. It has a very low frequency turnover frequency compared to other Delco head units. The system should have at least three level controls, subs, mids and highs.

4. Low mids/high power amp gain. The Twiddler power amps in the Bose/Delco head unit have their gain set very low. I don't know what Bose was thinking. You cannot drive the front and rear Bose Twiddlers to full level on many CD's and certain radio stations, yet you can drive the Bose subs to full level any time. I modified my head unit to fix this problem in my hybrid system.

5. Lack of audio power. The Bose/Delco system has six power amplifier channels. Four channels are in the head unit and two small class D amps are in the doors. The 4 channel internal AB power amp in the HU is
about 14 -18 wrms/ch into a 4 ohm speaker. This amp drives the four Bose Twiddlers. The door class D sub amps are about 35 to 45 wrms each into a 2 ohm speaker. Each sub amp drives a 2 ohm Bose reverse cone sub woofer. Since the Bose system has no DC to DC converter like an aftermarket power amp would, the amps are running directly off the alternator's 14 volts. The Bose system should have had an external six channel power amp module with high power. They could have taken the money wasted on the external Bose Signal Processor and sub amps and put it into an external amp.

6. No external auxilliary audio input connector. It this day and age, the head unit should have had a set of RCA connectors under the dash for a MP3 player or what ever one wanted. The deck could do this now if it had different software in it.

Audio interface info:

All low level audio interfaces in the Bose system are psuedo-differential. These include pre-amp, power amp, signal processor, subwoofer signals and CD changer. All high level speaker outputs, head unit and sub-amp, are fully differential. A psuedo-differential wiring scheme is one that shares one return signal wire for many signal source wires. A true differential wiring scheme uses two wires per signal. Using psuedo-differential or true differential wiring for low level signals improves noise rejection. Pseudo-differential wiring costs less than differential wiring and does not reject noise as well. Using differential wiring for high level signals improves voltage swing by 2x and thus power level. 2x the voltage swing is 4x the power. A typical single ended power amp powered by +14 volts, will put out 4 watts. A typical differential or balanced power amp running off +14 volts, will put out 16 watts. NEVER ground any psuedo-differential or differential signals to chassis. You may damage the internal differential circuitry. There is a dedicated floating Common return signal for each low level interface. DO NOT use the Common signals to interface to any external equipment. The Common signals in the C5 audio system are non-standard and should only interface to Delphi or Bose equipment. The 4 Common signals on the head unit and BSP have a DC offset on them. If you ground any of them you may do damage to internal circuitry. Only use a high impedance interface to tap a pre-amp outputs to feed external amps. For a power amp input signal return, use the shield wires or chassis. Tapping a differential signal with a single wire is OK, but you will not get the same noise rejection on long cable runs.

Bench Testing:

The C5 head units used in the coupe, FRC or vert are under control of the Body Control Module, BCM. The head unit cannot be tested outside the car without connecting a spare BCM to the DLC data buss interface of the head unit. The BCM controls power ON/OFF, illumination, SVC and radio pre-sets of the head unit.

Simple Modifications:

Replace the rear Bose Twiddlers with 2 or 3 way speakers. This will improve the highs. Unfortunately the speakers are poorly placed and do not radiate at the occupants heads. Buy speakers with swivel tweeters or that have the high frequency drivers angled at 45 degrees.

Connect real tweeters in parallel with the rear Bose Twiddlers. Point the tweeters at the occupants heads. They can be mounted on the car pillars.

Add a subwoofer to the system. Connect the sub amp to the HU rear channel pre-amp outputs.

The Bose CD/Cassette head unit can be utilized without the Bose signal conditioner, Bose sub-woofer amps and speakers by using the head unit four pre-amp outputs to drive external aftermarket power amplifiers and speakers. Use the Shield wires or chassis for signal return. DO NOT USE signals Common on C4(13),LT BLU or Common C4(7),YEL. These signals are only to interface with the Bose signal conditioner.

The head unit Radio "ON" output can be used to switch on external power amps. Be safe and use an in-line .5 amp fuse to protect head unit.

Wiring info:

The following are the Bose head unit 4 channel pre-amp outputs
Signal CD/Radio Color code
LF out C4(9) TAN/BLK
RF out C4(10) LT GRN/BLK
LR out C4(11) BRN
RR out C4(12) DK BLU
Common C4(13) LT BLU, DO NOT USE FOR EXTERNAL POWER AMP
Shield C4(14) Bare wire
Ground C4(15) BLK

The following are the Bose head unit 4 channel power amp inputs
Signal CD/Radio Color code
Common C4(7) YEL, DO NOT USE FOR EXTERNAL POWER AMP
Shield C4(8) Bare wire
LF in C3(1) DK GRN
RF in C3(2) LT GRN
LR in C3(3) BRN/WHT
RR in C3(4) BLK

The following are the head unit power and control signals
Signal CD/Radio connection
Radio "ON" C1(8) DK GRN, Switched 12v used to turn on power ant and Bose modules
Power C1(10) ORG
ground C1(5) BLK/WHT

The following are inputs to the Bose signal conditioner
Signal Bose signal processor connection
LF in B5
RF in B7
LR in B6
RR in B8
Common A4

The following are Bose "conditioned" outputs
fed back to the head unit 4 channel power amp
Signal Bose signal processor connection
LF out B2
RF out B12
LR out A2
RR out B10
Common B3

The following are Bose "conditioned" outputs
fed to the front door sub-woofer amps
Signal Bose signal processor connection
RH out A9
RH return A11
Drain B9
LH out A3
LH return B11
Drain B4

Bose signal processor power connections
Power A12
SW +12 in A8, turn on processor
Ground B1

Bose Bypass info

To bypass the Bose Signal Processor, make the following jumper using the C3 and C4 connectors in the wiring harness. Connect the following color wires together. Please check the wires per the info above.
There is two BLK wires, one is a signal wire and the other is connected to chassis ground, C3(4) is the one you want. Solder the connections and tape them up. Do not cut unused wires, you may want to add a power amp later and you will need these for signal returns.

C4(9) TAN/BLK connect to C3(1) DK GRN
C4(10) LT GRN/BLK connect to C3(2) LT GRN
C4(11) BRN connect to C3(3) BRN/WHT
C4(12) DK BLU connect to C3(4) BLK
C4(13) LT BLU connect to C4(7) YEL


Tweeter additions to Bose system

When you add a "4" ohm tweeter and it's crossover in parallel with the front 3.5" Bose Twiddlers, the amplifier will see a more complicated load. The impedance that the amplifier will see will be very low where the two speakers overlap in frequency response. The front 3.5" Bose Twiddler will have a frequency response similar to any add on tweeter. In reality it may be best to put the add on tweeter in parallel with the rear 5.25"/6.5" Bose Twiddler wires. The rear Twiddler is a mid range speaker. Putting a tweeter and crosover in parallel with it will mean very little overlap in the frequency response of the two speakers. The amplifier will not have to supply as much current at a specific frequency to both speakers at once, so it will run cooler and produce less distortion. The rear Bose Twiddler wires are available on the back of the HU.

RR+ C2(18) DK BLU
RR- C2(17) LT BLU

LR+ C2(20) BRN
LR- C2(19) YEL

Delphi/Bose head unit internal improvements:

These mods are not to be done by someone without soldering experience with surface mount components.

The Bose CD deck with the FRC bypass will not drive it's internal 4 ch power amp to clipping on some radio stations or selected CD's. It is not a real problem, but some old CD's were recorded at very low levels. These old CD's usually sound like crap because old tapes were used as the source material and there is a lot of hiss on them. If you like your music loud, then you will need to modify the head unit power amp for more gain. Most head units can overdrive their power amps to clipping for even low level inputs. I have a fix to increase the gain of the internal power amp. You need to replace four chip resistors. The mod requires changing out four 1206 size surface mount chip resistors. The head unit power amp has 4 op-amp based attenuators feeding it. Lower the attenuation and the power amp gain will go up.

The Bose head unit has a modified bass control to work with the subwoofer. When put in a system without a sub-woofer, the control does very little. A normal bass control has a turnover frequency of about 1khz. The Bose HU control is under 200 hz. The stock speakers in the FRC cannot reproduce the sub frequencies. I modified my bass control to work like standard Delco deck. The change requires changing out some surface resistors and capacitors. This mod improves the bass enormously.

I have also gone through the circuitry and improved the low and high frequency response of all the audio circuitry. These changes required increasing the coupling capacitor values by 2x to 10x and eliminating some shunt capacitors from the C3/C4 interface.

Head unit gain and bass control modifications:

The resistors and capacitors I changed are on both sides of the head unit motherboard. I will only describe the gain and bass control mods for now. The other mods I did are too much for most people to attempt. The other mods only enhance the bass and highs more. This is something you will probably not need to do.
DO NOT force anything. Be patient.

To get at one side of the motherboard, you need to remove the radio circuit card, this is easy. To get at the other side requires removing the CD assembly. It is fastened with four screws. This takes more time because you must remove the front panel to get two of the screws. Remove the big ***** only and the nut and washer on the volume control. Be very careful removing the front panel. It is plastic and is clipped onto the metal chassis in many places. Work each "clip" free individually. Be careful removing the CD assy. There is a long ribbon cable attached to it. You must release the tiny compression clamp on the ribbon connector on the CD assy motherboard, to pull out the ribbon cable free.

The four resistors to changed the power amp gain are near the two SO-14 and one SO-8 IC packages used for the pre-amp output and power amp input buffers. The two 14 pin IC's are quad op-amps and the 8 pin IC is a dual op-amp. The resistors are clustered around one of the 14 pin SO-14 package IC's next to the C2/C3 connectors, under one of the RTV blobs. You need to remove the RTV blob on top of the IC. Leave the rest alone. The resistors are labled 5491. This means 5.49K ohm 1%. You need to replace them with four 12K to 27K ohm, 1206 size chip resistors. The larger the resistance value, the higher the power amp gain.

To mod the bass control circuit, locate the small 32 pin PLCC packaged tone control IC near the large Microprocessor IC. The bass control's 2 resistors and 4 caps are on the other side of the motherboard under the tone control IC. Look for two 1206 chip resistors labled 302 that connect to ground. This means 3K ohm 5%. There are four caps connected to these two resistors. It is a "T" network. For the R+L channels, two caps attach to the IC and the resistor hangs between the two caps to ground. The two resistors need to be replaced with 4.3K to 5.1K 1206 size chip resistors and the caps replaced with .1uf 1206 size chip caps.

Be very careful removing the old parts. Heat up both end terminations of a the chip component at once with a soldering iron. Use some extra solder to help transfer heat and work the tip back and forth between the ends. Make a small solder ball if necessary. Gently push the part off the pads with the soldering iron tip when both terminations are floating free. Clean up the board pads with solder wick. Clean the board with a Q-tip and some alcohol or acetone. Use tweezers to hold the new parts to solder them.

markcz

I read so many different posts, I thought you said somewhere that you were later going to add amp/speakers

If you're replacing the door twiddlers with kickers all you need to do is swap out the speakers in the door. IIRC C5 has push on spades so you won't even have to splice anything, so no need to be concerned about wires.

I wouldn't bother with the processor bypass, it's not THAT bad. If you don't want to run wires (BTW, C5 is one of the easiest ever to do it in) then you will not like messing with the wires in the dash.

If you haven't seen them already, C5 schematics are HERE

b.lee

First off, thanks for all your help so far man!

I'm taking out the door speakers completely, both the little sub and 3.5" speaker... and replacing them with a 6.5" kicker speaker.

This should work fine without bypassing the Bose processor?

markcz

It will work either way.

If you remove the door subs without adding an aftermarket sub in the trunk you will lose most of the low end. IMO you'd be better off leaving the door subs installed and just replacing the 3.5" twiddlers with aftermarket 2-ways.

b.lee

Ya, I have a 12" sub in the rear middle floor space already.

I should have mentioned it but I didn't want to get off of the subject of the door/rear speakers.

Thanks again

Z06ufgrad2002

Is there a simple explanation why I have no speaker power to Both 3.5" speakers in the doors? The 8" in the doors and the rears work fine. Thanks

markcz

Unless they're not connected properly I'd start at front/rear fade **** on radio.

Z06ufgrad2002

I pulled the dash apart and removed the HU. Unplugged everything then plugged it back in and they are now working. One of the plugs on the back of the HU must have vibrated loose. Sounds awesome with the new JL speakers and everything working again. Thanks

Now I've go to pull the valve covers for a look. The engine is making an odd ticking noise. Ugh! It never ends.