C5_Shopper

I've been reading about some later model retrofits, but didn't see this idea proposed anywhere. My plan is to control an aftermarket double din navigation head unit via an interface unit. I do my own mechanical and electrical work. I have previously retrofitted a double din nav radio and Homelink visors into a 1.5 din 1991 Dodge, so I don't believe a project of this nature is not beyond my skill set.

I'm coming from a late model Dodge Challenger that had SWC for most of the basic functions. I'm not enamored of the add-on boxes to do this.

Best case scenario, I can use a late model C6 wheel with the controls installed with the proper harness and adapt this to an interface box. Worst case, a column replacement?

There seems to be some wiring & other (clockspring) info here, so I will research the project to determine if it can be reasonably done and post any relevant findings here. Any thoughts or ideas/suggestions are welcome.

EDIT
I completed this project on 2/3/14. I would not care to do it again. The main issue is replacing the clockspring. The column design is such that you have to use a special tool to pull the lockplate, and then take the column head loose, which fouls up the high beam switch rod (link to a thread that helped me put it together). I spent several hours getting that back into place. If you really want to try this, there are some parts listed in the following posts, as well as some advice after I had installed it. The best option in my opinion is to cut off the old clockspring harness under the wheel, then also the connectors at the end of the new one, and use the old harness to pull through the new one. While this is an untested method, it would avoid the hassle of taking the column apart.

I do not plan on publishing a how-to for this since it was far more complex than I estimated.

whitehooptie

I don't know for sure, but if I remember right, the C6 steering wheel had a smaller diameter shaft in it than the usual stuff. I know that I like doing those weird swaps too. I had a C5 that I liked putting C6 stuff in. I also liked putting C5 stuff in my 4th gen Z28. I would try to get a late model Camaro steering wheel with the controls and see if that works.

C5_Shopper

OK, thanks for the suggestion.

EDIT
D'oh! I have a 1995 Trans Am with one of those wheels in my garage. Since it is in project status, I may pull the wheel & size it up.

C5_Shopper

*UPDATED for parts compatibility*
I've been looking into this some more. I've browsed all 243 of the "clockspring" threads and 95% of them deal with the C5 and C6. I didn't find much helpful info.

There is a lot of info online and I originally wrote an really long post here. I'll reduce it to what I looked at and what I eliminated as well as what I think may work. This is basically concept and research at this point. I try to write posts so that they can be of use to others years down the road.

Since my C4 is a 1995, I wanted a wheel from this same era. Apparently later models use a different size metric splined shaft, and second generation airbags that are not compatible. This eliminated anything after 1999, such as the C5, "new" Impala, etc.

The C4 wheel is black and has the Corvette logo. The 93-02 F-body cars would likely bolt on, but the Firebird wheel has a Pontiac emblem and is grey, while the 93-99 Camaro wheel says "Camaro" and is black. This changed to just the Chevy bowtie circa 2000. The 95-99 Monte Carlo wheel is the same black one and has a Chevy bowtie.

The winner at this point is the 1995-99 Monte Carlo or 00-02 Camaro. It is a black wheel, and apparently uses the same steering wheel controls (SWC) as the Firebird (see update below). The C4, F-body, and Monte Carlo all use the same upper steering shaft. This along with looking at photos of actual parts for sale is how I judged bolt-on compatibility.

UPDATE: GM used two types of SWC, and they mount entirely differently, but the electrical connectors are the same. I'm not sure when the change was made. They are not directly interchangeable, but you can cut slits in the soft foam where they mount to use the Camaro/later model switches in the older wheels. My wheel came from a 1996 Monte Carlo and the SWC from a 2002 Camaro. I would suggest getting a later model wheel with controls.

I found some info on the LS1 Tech site that was helpful. It's somewhat long, so I won't copy it here, but it describes issues using a later model GM wheel in an older GM car. The poster disabled his airbag, not something I want to do.

The parts needed may be more economical to buy as an entire steering column if it has the wheel and airbag. I found a Monte Carlo wheel with SWC and airbag on eBay for about $145 shipped. I found F-body guys on LS1 Tech parting out 00-02 cars and selling SWC wheels and airbags for around $100~125.

UPDATE: This column was not a bargain! The clockspring was unusable and the SWC do not interchange with the later model ones I bought.

Once the physical install is taken care of, the next issue becomes the wiring of the airbag and SWC. I'll have to see if there is a sub-harness I can use to wire it to the aftermarket interface.

I bought a Clarion NX702 nav radio after doing some research between it and a Pioneer AVIC series. I narrowed my search down to these two due to them having a voice control input. Apparently the Clarion suffers from poor recognition, so I bought an external mic to use with it. I have an older double din Pioneer nav custom-mounted in a 1991 Dodge and it has worked fairly well.

Both the Clarion and the 93-02 F-body (and by extension the 95-99 Monte Carlo) SWC are compatible with either the PAC SWI-JACK or Axxess ASWC-1 SWC interfaces. From some reading I've done, it looks like the ASWC-1 is programmable. It would be great to be able to use a double-push on some of the buttons to activate other features such as voice input for navigation or calls.

If I attempt this, I'll post some pics for a how-to.

UPDATE
I found an entire column from a 1996 Monte Carlo with wheel, worn controls, & wiring and no airbag for $80 shipped. I got an airbag from a 1996 Monte Carlo for $30 shipped, and a set of controls from a 2000 Camaro for $17 shipped. Total parts were $127.

EDIT
Here's a pic of a typical Monte Carlo wheel:

C5_Shopper

I've been studying shop manuals (don't have one for the C4 yet) for the SWC wiring from a 1999 Monte Carlo (95-98 should be the same) and a 2002 Camaro (00-01 should be the same).

Attached is a tentative overview and wiring diagram. The 4 pin C213/217 connector should be with my column, so I can cut and splice as needed. One of the main tricks will be to ID and tap into the C4 accessory and illumination circuits.

This seems like a viable project as of now.

EDIT
Diagram revised 1/28/14: Added OEM radio connector wiring as source, minor style revisions for legibility.

solaris_vii

well this is a pretty cool project!

LT1 Z51

That is a cool update, and one that I think should work, as long as your airbag is happy!

C5_Shopper

The airbag and wheel controls arrived today. The column is due tomorrow. I was able to get in some practice on my truck's steering column since I was doing some steering work on it. I learned how to remove the airbag, center the clockspring, and found my puller works great for airbag wheels. I think this project should come together fairly easily. I ordered a set of GM service manuals yesterday so I can look over the wiring and determine where to tap in for power, illumination, and ground. I know it would be asking too much for a compatible plug on the Monte Carlo column.

I'll attach a pic of the column from the eBay auction.

C5_Shopper

I found this on The 12 Volt.com:
1995-96 Chevrolet Corvette Stereo Wiring

Here's the necessary wires, these must be @ the radio connector:
Switched 12V+: Yellow
Ground: Black
Illumination: Gray

C5_Shopper

All of the parts are here, and this is where the rubber meets the road.

I had to buy a smaller steering wheel puller as mine was too large. The wheel came off relatively easy, as did the snap ring for the clockspring. The main problem was feeding the wires with connectors through the plastic housings. Most vehicles I've seen have removable housings so as to service the column. Not this one. It has some type of hidden/mystery fasteners. Since it was junk and plastic, I used a pair of electrician's pliers to open it up and remove the wires. That freed the clockspring.

The next problem was the switches while identical in appearance from the outside mount differently in a Camaro. The Camaro uses two tongues that clip into the wheel on each end, while the Monte Carlo uses only one in the center. Totally incompatible. Back to eBay.

UPDATE: The area where these mount are soft foam. I was able to use a knife to cut slits in the tops and bottoms and press in the Camaro switches. The electrical connectors are the same.

After that, I noted the clockspring has 6 wires coming in via two harnesses, two (green & white) for the airbag, and one harness with 4 wires going out to the wheel. These 4 connect to the SWC, so there is no wiring for the airbag, which is odd since it is an airbag wheel. Even though my clockspring is marked 26049661, it does not have the airbag wiring on the steering wheel side. I looked up this number on eBay and saw they all have two harnesses coming & going. I didn't see any evidence the airbag wires had been cut, so this is odd.

My bargain column was not quite the bargain I thought it was. I found a wheel with switches from a 98-02 Camaro and a clockspring with both harnesses for a total of $68 shipped.

I'll update as I make more progress.

-=Jeff=-

interesting idea.. I look forward to watching your progress

duramaxsky

Sounds like a lot of work. I have them in some of my vehicles and never use them. Except the truck and only for the DIC. Its the only way on that. I never use them for the radio.

C5_Shopper

It is a lot of work, but I enjoy this type of project. I've updated the above threads due to learning the mounts for the SWC are soft foam and can be cut to allow use of the later model SWC.

duramaxsky

On the new Freightliners they have a bunch of buttons on the steering wheel. I find it very distracting to use. Even the jake and cruise switch are there. My emplouer gave me a new one and after 2 days I switched back to my old Int. Its 14 years old with 1.1 million miles but I like it better. I will keep it unill they scrap it. The steering wheel buttons are one of many things I dont like on the new ones.

C5_Shopper

Someone wiser than I once said you'll never please all of the people all of the time. Seeing as how it's my car, the only one I need worry about pleasing is me.

Just as with a TV show you don't like, it's easy to "change the channel" here.

LT1 Z51

Those are unfortunate setbacks. I've been unhappy with the quality of many used things I get on eBay. I always wonder why I spend so much time making sure I accurately represent what I sell on eBay when I could just half *** it like a lot of people.

C5_Shopper

I really can't fault the column seller. The wheel was in place and there was no way to know about the clockspring short of pulling the wheel, and ditto the switches. As it stands now (see below) I got a useable wheel and wiring connectors for $80. I could have done a lot worse.

I used a knife to cut the foam and the Camaro switches pressed right into place, so one down and one to go as far as recent problems.

duramaxsky

true have at and have fun with it.

Dt86

Probably because you have morals, values and are an honest person.

-=Jeff=-

C5 Shopper..

any Pictures of your progress on what you have done so far?