snitz

I have forged sc C5 with 600+ rwhp. Given the car's power, I have been told the stock GM "active handling" is best left off when using in road race applicatons. I was told there are great sophisticated handling applications designed for road racing, but the stock GM version isn't up to the task in a boosted car2.

Do you guys agree? Thanks.

96LT1

Personally I can't see using AH in any type of performance driving regardless of how 'sophisticated' it is.

Given that AH can pull fuel and timing under some conditions, it would be interesting to see how long that 600rwhp motor lasts if you race with AH on.

Lancer033

risk vs. reward

AH can help you out when you mess up, on the other hand, it can also teach you some bad habits. If you're on a wide open track with nothing to hit if you spin out, leave it off. If you're on a tight track with wall right beside you, start to think about leaving it on. If you're out there with goals of stepping into serious racing in the future, turn it off. If you're just out there to have a litttle fun with the car, leave it on.

I play it day by day depending on the track, the weather, what I feel like doing, and sometimes just a gut feeling.

StArrow68

Just one man's opinion but as with most things the real answer is 'It depends'. As with all motorsports, are you willing to stuff the car into a wad? It can happen even with AH, but might be just a little more likely with out the system. Starting as I did with the approx. 300 rwhp, stock C5, is really way beyond what most racers will say is a great approach. Are you starting or have you had prior experience? It makes a difference, IMO.
Those that say the system must or should be turned off are usually very good drivers, but not everybody is and the number of cars into walls at road courses is an indicator. It really isn't about the car, it's about how much you can handle and real classes like Spring Mt. MSP, Russell or Bondurant etc. can give you an indication. My approach has been to see if the car is drivable without relying on the system to save it, hard for some to judge but an indicator is how fast wear items like brake pads or outside tire edges last can be helpful. No matter what any of the rest of us feel, what really matters is how comfortable you are on track. BTW, I've seen people spin out in their first session and others that haven't done it in three years. As noted, it all depends ...
Randy

yellow01

IMHO it is best left off... One man's opinion, and you know what they say

Not to be a PITA, but this debate surfaces time and time again, and you will get equal numbers of folks on either side, for varying reasons. Lots of good discussion has been had in the past. Do a search.

That said, I'll sum up my approach without getting too long winded.

- If you are brand new at RR (DEs) leave it on for a bit. Get the feel of things. It will help you through some of the boneheaded newbie mistakes everyone makes.

- Again, if you are inexperienced, and you find that it is kicking in alot, most likely you are making mistakes or overdriving. PLEASE NOTE I said if you are inexperienced and most likely. I say this because as you get more experienced you may find it preventing you from doing things on purpose. That situation is like **** though, you know it when you see it. If you don't know why it's kicking in, you're probably messing up. I'm with Lancer, it can become a crutch. If you run with it on, be mindful of that.

I ran with it on my first 1/2 weekend, then at the, ehem, recommendation of my instructor turned it off. I am much better for having done so, I am convinced of that. Now I will typically run with it on for the saturday morning session so I get back into the feel a bit, then it's off all the way.

I believe I've become a better driver without it (and I'm no expert by any stretch). Just my opionion.

wtknght1

Off, without a doubt. Unless of course you're racing against me...then by all means turn it on!

Those CYA devices develop some very bad habits that are hard to break once you start! There are plenty of threads on this forum arguing the points pro and con.

Bob 33

If wet, during my first run, or while learning a track, I run my C5 Z06 in "competition mode," later turning the system off. Having said this, my only dramatic off-track excursion occured with the system off, but this was due to being a bit out of position on the VIR climbing esses after a late point-by. Even a savey computer can't overcome brain failure. Think "smooth" and the Z06 handles wonderfully without the computer.

Bob 33

WNeal

I turned it off for the first time on the track at Putnam Park last month.
It does make a difference and MAKES you "drive" the car.
Rear end got loose on me when it otherwise would not have but at the same time, you can go faster and I believe you will become a better driver over time with it off

JMHO from a rookie at driving on the track

Adam 17x

My only dramatic spin to date in my C6 Z51 came as a result of the active handling (in Comp mode) applying the rear brakes in order to minimize the car's slip angle in fast down hill sweeper. I was driving at the limit and in control, but the car outsmarted me. There simply wasn't traction to spare when the computer nipped at the rear brakes. I now leave the nannies off and pay the proper attention to my application of the throttle (the only place the AH was otherwise helpful IMO).

xsiveone

Also, some people don't like driving in the rain, but I love it. I love driving in the rain and the snow (without the Corvette of course) because it teaches you car control at much slower speeds than what you'd have to be at when your car breaks loose on dry pavement. Getting your car out of control and bringing it back into control gives you a ton of confidence.

snitz

Thanks to everyone for there comments and advice. Very smart and helpful insights.

I am new to the track and plan to take the Spring Mountain 3 day course in a couple weeks. After that I plan to get as much track time as possible and learn from the ground up, one step at a time.

Sounds like I may want to leave AH on initially to get my feet wet, or for the first run of the day. Then I am best to get some got instruction, practice and push my driving and the car in small increments with it off so I learn to drive properly without any crutches that develop bad habits.

Thanks again.

John Shiels

if you are just starting competitive mode should not be bad.

yakisoba

I tend to leave comp mode on when it rains, but the rest of the time it's off. On the street, all on.

I started with comp mode only, in all conditions. I did have some fear when I turned it off, but it was necessary to be able to place the rear of the car where it had to go to run the fastest. I guess it took about a day to get over not having comp mode to catch the car in the turns. After that, I found that I got faster as I was able to run closer to the edge of car (and me).

I never wished I had run with it off from the start, as it did save me from a couple of really stupid situations in my first couple of weekends. I'll take the day of adjusting to the "all off" mode over spinning in some of the places I was driving at the time.

FasterIsBetter

How about AH with slicks? I just got a set of Kumho V710s and will be trying them out for the first time up at Watkins Glen in a couple of weeks. I've heard that slicks and AH do not work well together, and that when running slicks, AH should be turned off. Yes or no?

Thanks,
Steve

Bill Dearborn

No!!! The power level has nothing to do with Active Handling. All Active Handling does is monitor the wheel sensors, the yaw rate and the steering angle to determine which brake on which wheel has to be applied to keep a car moving on the drivers intended course. It does not pull timing from the engine or cut the throttle. It doesn't matter whether you have 100 HP or 1000 HP. It does the same thing. If your tuner told you the stock version isn't up to the task in a boosted car I would go find one who knows what he is doing.

As far as using Active Handling on the track I think it depends. A novice could become dependent upon it to get around a course better than he could without it but the same novice could use the interference to determine he is doing something wrong with the car and adjust his driving to minimize the interference and thus become a better driver. So it depends on the person's attitude. AH can definitely save your bacon when you hit those spots on the track where one end of the car suddenly starts sliding in a spot where it didn't slide the previous time time through the turn. I had this happen at the Glen a couple of years ago. I was hotfooting it behind another Z through the off camber left and as I accelerated away from the apex the backend swung out and then back in line so fast I wasn't sure it happened. The video tape shows it clearly and you can hear the engine rev just a little when traction was lost.

I started doing track events 14 years ago with cars that did not have Active Handling. When I bought the 03Z three years ago I decided to run it in Comp Mode to see how things went. I run DOT R tires all the time when on the track and they are equal diameter front and rear so I wondered if I would notice anything. NADA. Not a thing different. I didn't have the problem with worn rear brake pads that some people tell about and I really didn't feel anything in the car. When I tried autocrossing I noticed it a lot more since you can really feel it pull the car around when you are either understeering or oversteering. Under certain circumstances AH can be an advantage in autocrossing since the driver can make a car do things he couldn't normally get it to do since he cannot apply just one brake. At my last autocross in the rain I was playing with the AH and had the car coming out of a U turn at WOT with both rear wheels spinning and the car heading straight to my next turn in point. Without AH the car would have been in the weeds if I had tried flooring it. First I heard and felt the rear inside brake being applied to stop the understeer and then as the car came around I felt the front brakes being individually applied to keep the car on the intended path. The first hit was hard enough to feel like the car had stopped but what it did was cause the front end to come back on the intended line. Then as the car came out of the turn the backend started sliding out and one of the front brakes was applied to correct the oversteer then the other front brake was applied with less force to keep the backend from going to far the other way. The rear tires spun and the front brakes were individually applied all the way up the straight until I hit the brakes for the next turn. It is really amazing how it works. Doing that did not help my time but it was one of the ways I try to understand what the car will do for me when I need it to do something.

With 2001 and newer Corvettes set in Comp Mode I believe the most skilled drivers will notice some interference. People who are less skilled will notice almost no interference and people who are not skilled will notice tons of interference when they start to push the envelope. There are few drivers that fit in the first category and most of them get paid to drive.

Bill

JiminVirginia

After autocrossing with "everything turned off" for a couple of years, I tried doing a run in competition mode during an instructional school a couple of weeks back. It was a disaster in terms of my run times. Competiton mode killed everything I was trying to do with the car. Never again.

I mentioned this to a friend who autocrosses a Subaru, and he had an interesting perspective. He said that what would be really interesting would be if anyone could design an active handling system that would IMPROVE autocross times. He's skeptical that this is possible, and I suspect he is right.

wtknght1

Uh, Bill...both AH,TC, Comp mode, etc. can pull power from the engine if you get the car in bad enough shape....especially in the rain.

wtknght1

They already have...and it was banned in F1 years and years ago mainly due to the cars just being too damn fast and the technology being too expensive.

As far as street cars... not likely.

96LT1

Bill, the service manuals for the C5s and C4s (those that have AH) disagree with you.

"The EBCM and the PCM simultaneously control the traction control system (TCS - AH & TC). The PCM reduces the amount of torque supplied to the drive wheels by retarding spark timing and selectively turning off fuel injectors."

The VSES (Vehicle Stability Enhancement System - Competition Mode) is activated by the EBCM calculating... (yaw rate, lateral acceleration, etc.) If the yaw rate error is too larege, the EBCM will attempt to correct by applying differential braking to the left or right brake.

The C4 ASR (AH/TC) is quite a bit dumber than the C5s but still pulls timing and fuel depending on the conditions.

xsiveone

I find AH to be too intrusive. I hung the tail out one time on turn 6 at Road America with AH on. I instinctively corrected for it and then the AH corrected for it. I ended up fighting against the correction that the AH made and got into a little tank slapper. It wasn't anything that was dangerous because it wasn't that fast of a corner, but it was annoying and didn't feel natural to me.