folsomlarry

I might finally have my Truimph Spitire SCCA car sold. I have been debating for a long time if I wanted to build a street/track day car or just track my 99FRC.

I really think I would be happier with a track day car and leave my other one alone. The price of C4s has come down enough to think about buying one and using for a street/track day car.

Are there any years that the C4s had more problems, or are there any years that you guys would recommend. I will probably concentrate on handling, saftey and brakes and not do much to the engine. There is enough horsepower onhand that if set up right it should be very fast.

The only other cars that seem to fit into this catagory would be an old 240Z or an older Camaro, but I would rather run a Corvette.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Larry

stairman

'89's were very good suspension, and are very reasonable on price, and also have lots of upgrade options for the engine if you want them later.
Just personal preference, stay away from optispark.

Good luck and enjoy.

folsomlarry

Glad you said that, I had forgot all about the optispark.

c4cruiser

The 89 coupe was very popular in SCCA A-Stock autocross for a number of years. Good power in stock form, 6-speed ZF tranny, Dana 44 rear end and the Z51 suspension is a great starting point. The J55 13" front brakes appeared in 89 and are a big plus!

The mid to late 80's C4's are easily capable of 150+ in stock form and with minor engine mods will go faster. The best thing is that you can find decent C4's in the $5000 to $7000 range. That's not bad for a baseline car that could go out on a track with not much more than new shocks and brakes.

My 87 with the 4+3 sees lots of autocross days and occasional HPDE/track day use and I still drive it on the street. The motor has only a mild cam, balanced, and the intake and runners are port-matched. It also has a light flywheel with a stock-type clutch. I added a R-D Racing Camber Brace to stiffen up the suspension and a Cross-Bar for mounting a 5-point harness. I run stock wheels with Hoosiers for autocross. For track days, I use 17" AFS wheels and Kumho Ecsta MX tires.

The OEM brakes are not the best as they are only 11.5" in diameter, but rotors are cheap and you can still get decent HP pads for track day.

BrianCunningham

I've got a '95 with an optispark and 124k on the clock, the issues are way overblown. L98 make a lot of torque, but if you want to make any HP your going to need to replace the intake.

Check into car that have already been converted.
I believe Hrocks car is still for sale.

Before your decide, check out the cars for sale here, some are ex Speedvision cars.
http://www.tccracing.com/main.htm

Solofast

For a track/street car the LT1/4 are the best bet unless you want to mod the L98. While you can wake up an L98, unless you do shifting at 4500 rpm gets old after a while. You will need a cam and head work and a different manifold, as a start, but to go L98 that's what it will take.

Just for the pleasure of driving I would do a six speed, it shifts so much nicer than the 4+3... That means an 89 or later, find a Z51 or Z07 and go from there.

The early six speed L98's are cheaper, so maybe you can invest in a motor and come out for about the same at the end of the day. Still remember that the older the car the more work it is going to take to get it to be trackworthy, so do your homework on whatever you buy and look at how much maintenance has been done on the car and what you are going to need to do to get it to be a reliable piece...

RAFTRACER

Dont kid yourself......If you are not going to mod the motor, you do not want an L98 car. LT1 or preferably LT4 car. You will get better handling out of a correctly optioned LT1 car .....But if you are going to mod the suspension at all do the LT4. Top-end power generally rains supreme on road courses.

varkwso

Just track your 99FRC. I tracked a 944S and a 94Z28 Camaro to keep the load off my ZO6. After the second engine expired in the 944S and the Z28 was totalled by a minivan - I bought a 99FRC as a second track car - could not be happier. FRCs are cheap to keep on the track and for the price of a nice LT4 C4 you can pick another one up.

I was just offered a vintage racer Spitfire recently a buddy has. Reminds me of driving my old MGA race car. Vintage racing is a big thing at the moment.

Sidney004

If you do go the C4 route, the LT4 would be the best choice. The LT1 and the LT4 have the same gearing but the LT4 revs to 6300 versus 5700 in the LT1. At the tracks you will be going to(Infinion, Thill and Laguna Seca) thats an enormous advantage. You won't get out of fourth gear in either car and that extra 600 Rpm is the difference between bouncing off the rev limiter(or valve float) and pulling cleanly at the end of a straight in fourth or some of the shorter third gear straights. The LT4's have 13mph more speed in fourth and 10 more mph in third.

ghoffman

I had a 89 and a 2000 FRC and there is no comparison on the track. The FRC is like 3-4 seconds (or more) a lap quicker at NHIS. The chassis is alot stiffer, the rear suspension much better, and the weight balance is better. The L98 does not rev past 4500, the LS1 is lighter and much stronger. The interior in bigger on a C5 had is easier to put in seats, bar/cage, and the C5 aero is better. The C5 is also cheaper to fix if you whack a front fender, you don't have to replace a clam-shell hood, just screw on a new fender. Frankly, I can't think of any advantage the C4 has over a C5, no flames, but is just a better base to begin with.

Slalom4me

Well, the initial cost is less.

I have an '89 L98 A4. I am attempting to follow the Safety,
Brakes & Handling formula you have set out as your goal. I
expressly include Durability and Streetability as part of my criteria.

A factor that has not been mentioned is that the aluminum
headed L98's have an issue with head gaskets and galvanic
corrosion - reportedly corrected in '91. If not diagnosed,
the gasket fails and takes out the bottom end. I have lost
track of how many engines have expired from HG failure this
year alone.

Another factor is that availability of OEM parts for maintenance
and performance is diminishing. Same with specialty parts like
C5 brake adapters, harness bars, the various frame braces and
other bits. Effective replacements for the TPI intake
that can be purchased new are down to the TPiS Mini Ram, the
LPE/Accel Superram is/was currently out of production and NLA.
There has been a resurgence of interest in the Stealth Ram with
a modified plenum, but this is a cut/try affair and the jury is
still out.

Transplants of LSx engines into C4's have come out into the open
2006 with 3-4 highly detailed threads over in C4 Tech. While
the bar would be lower for a track-only car, the swap is not for
the faint of heart or light of wallet.

In light of everything above, my vote is against starting with
a stock C4. If you decide to track one of these, I encourage
you to listen to the age-old advice - buy the best 'built' car
you can afford.

There are a few C4's on the market now at different levels of
preparation
VettMike's car recently became availableSold, but an example of what sometimes becomes available
Here are C5's and a cross-section of other years/models.

mrc24x

Hi Larry,
I'm still fairly new to all this but I just built an '88 4+3 for the track and have had a lot of fun with it so far. But I chose this purely for financial reasons. Street car, $4600. + another $8000 (one piece at a time) in suspension, brakes, and full cage....but I still haven't spent anything on the motor yet (other than headers/exhaust).

While my initial price of an '88 was great I am now at a point where I am about ready to swap in a 6spd ($1800), cam/heads/intake... ($3500).....

As you can see I will be around 20K when it is complete. It certainly would have been cheaper to buy one already completed but I do enjoy the work and I'm learning a lot. Keep in mind that the 20k race car should be a pretty good car (fingers crossed) and the 12K version that I ran this year was plenty fun and fast for what I was doing. Unfortunately the crack pipe has been lit.

Anyway, if I was going to build another L98 it would be an '89 Z51 6spd. 1) 3.54 D44 vs 3.07 D44 2) 6sp vs 4+3 3) suspension slightly improved.
For less than 20K you can have a 2750lb 330rwhp Vintage Machine.
**Gold chains not included.

Now I have to return to being bummed that Danny was Dissin my ride!!

folsomlarry

Thanks to everyone for all of the advice and the links. Still have not heard for the people who looked at my race car the other night, so it may be a while.

My original thought was a 72 or older Corvette that I could drive and track day and actually do a vintage race or two. I know you could not win with a streetable car, but it would be interesting. It was the same thinking for a 240z, since back when I was racing there were a couple of Zs that were always battling for the overall wins in the GT class at Sears Point, which is a handling course rather than a horsepower course.

Once again I appreciate all of the advice and hopefully I will be joining a few of you on the track next season.

Larry

RAFTRACER

Matt.......Not dissing your ride, just not what I would prefer to do if I was him......thats why you are now spending $$$$ on motor stuff You have certainly left a mark on the NASA crowd with your budget Corvette, I can appreciate that , and if I am not mistaken it helps you significantly with base class points. Later model cars have the benefits that you have mentioned, 6-spd, better gearing, and better brakes. Downside to an LT1/4 car is that engine pieces will become more scarce based on the limited number of years it was produced. Aftermarket upper end pieces are more limited also, but as this gentle man said , he doesn't want to spend money on the motor.

I like other honestly believe that this gentleman may be better suited buying a C5....more performance, better brakes yet again, lighter,evolution etc.......... Probably could pick-up a 99-00 FRC pretty cheap, not quite as inexpensive as a C4 could be , but still affordable.

ghoffman

Danny brings up a really good point about parts availability. The C5 also has some upgrade capability to C6 parts and technology. Wheels, tires, trans, suspension, some motor stuff and most of the suspension stuff is interchangeable C5 to C6 so parts will be available for a very long time.

rasrboy

[QUOTE=folsomlarry]I might finally have my Truimph Spitire SCCA car sold. I have been debating for a long time if I wanted to build a street/track day car or just track my 99FRC.

I really think I would be happier with a track day car and leave my other one alone. The price of C4s has come down enough to think about buying one and using for a street/track day car.

Are there any years that the C4s had more problems, or are there any years that you guys would recommend. I will probably concentrate on handling, saftey and brakes and not do much to the engine. There is enough horsepower onhand that if set up right it should be very fast.

The only other cars that seem to fit into this catagory would be an old 240Z or an older Camaro, but I would rather run a Corvette.


I have an 87 Z51 Corvette coupe in my avatar for sale and is Ohio street legal under collectors plates. All headlights,turn signals,lights,horn all work and it has ONLY 11,825 actual miles. 1970 LT1 750 carbed motor (NO COMPUTOR STUFF/ELECTRONIC THINGS TO SHORT OUT)360 RWHP, msd 6AL box with limiter,shift light,oil light,etc. new zf 6 speed,fresh stage 3 spec clutch, 373 dana 44 fresh rear end, all heim jointed and solid bushings, 13' brakes with rare GM Corvette challenge adapter brackets.new GS calipers,pads,rotors,bearings,full cage, 2 rare corvette challenge seats,accussump system,howe radiator,oil cooler,remote filter set up,CCW 18x12 wheels,extra 4 wheels with non dot slicks, runs in NASA,NCCC and what ever else you want to do. I have more spare parts than I have room to list here. It also comes with an extra fresh complete motor 355 C.I with roughly 450 HP minus carb. Has Brodix track 1 heads,victor jr intake and much more. onboard radio communications,simpson harnesses,convex mirror upper and lower brake duct coolers,new clutch master,slave and line. I will get more info together to put in the C4 forsale column soon. Turn key price $17,000.00 wit a gazillion spares. Holds IIIE NCCC track records at Rockingham,Mid-ohio,Nelsons,Putnum,roebling road and has had many FTD's. I have a few pictures below.

Aaron Quine (Ohio)
rasrboy@hotmail.com

racerwannabe

or you can just completly go insane and buy my car!! you'll have it all,the luxury of a c-5 the power of a C5-R ..tell 'em guys!!!
Johnny

rasrboy

I can verify that Johhnys car is a missle on wheels.

I wish I had the extra $. Take a check, old buddy old pal?

racerwannabe

sure Aaron...let's see ...i'll have tires forever!!!!

racerwannabe

ya know i'm catching up to on engine KILLIN'