Racing hubs
11-17-2006, 06:48 PM
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Racing hubs
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1552588
I'm working on a complete redesign of the stock hubs using Coleman NASCAR style hub bearings.
The stock hubs have ball bearings, which are great for low drag and fuel economy, but not so good at taking loads like the roller bearings.
The stock units are sealed which means you can't even replace the gease let alone the bearings.
The roller bearings are $10-20, which means even if you kill them, just take it apart and change them out.
The fronts would be easy to do, just make up a spindle and bolt on their hub, but the brakes and wheels would need adapters, or one could just make up hubs that use thier bearings. In the process you could get the ABS sensors to work.
So what do people want?
Adapters for stock Coleman hubs? May require break adapters, and if you want 5x5's or Wide-5, you'll need brake adapter and new wheels. I've already got a request for this.
Custom hubs using Coleman's bearings. Consider it a stock replacement, but rebuildable with different bearing style. I'd like to partition the SCCA to allow them in Stock or at least Street Prepared. They would have more drag, they just last longer.
While I'm at it I can make drag race hubs and spindles that can handle the massive amounts of torque that some of us as putting out.
I'm working on a complete redesign of the stock hubs using Coleman NASCAR style hub bearings.
The stock hubs have ball bearings, which are great for low drag and fuel economy, but not so good at taking loads like the roller bearings.
The stock units are sealed which means you can't even replace the gease let alone the bearings.
The roller bearings are $10-20, which means even if you kill them, just take it apart and change them out.
The fronts would be easy to do, just make up a spindle and bolt on their hub, but the brakes and wheels would need adapters, or one could just make up hubs that use thier bearings. In the process you could get the ABS sensors to work.
So what do people want?
Adapters for stock Coleman hubs? May require break adapters, and if you want 5x5's or Wide-5, you'll need brake adapter and new wheels. I've already got a request for this.
Custom hubs using Coleman's bearings. Consider it a stock replacement, but rebuildable with different bearing style. I'd like to partition the SCCA to allow them in Stock or at least Street Prepared. They would have more drag, they just last longer.
While I'm at it I can make drag race hubs and spindles that can handle the massive amounts of torque that some of us as putting out.
Last edited by BrianCunningham; 11-17-2006 at 07:01 PM.
11-17-2006, 06:56 PM
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what about the wheel sensors we have now? If we dont use them will there be a computer problem?
Dang I am getting old
Dang I am getting old
Last edited by AU N EGL; 11-17-2006 at 07:39 PM.
11-17-2006, 07:08 PM
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The ABS, traction control and active handling need the input.
The sensor can be pulled off the old one.
I could just use rears in the front put a small shaft in to spin a wheel for the sensor.
You could just reuse the stock sensor.
The rear needs a bearing on the inside to support the subaxle.
The sensor can be pulled off the old one.
I could just use rears in the front put a small shaft in to spin a wheel for the sensor.
You could just reuse the stock sensor.
The rear needs a bearing on the inside to support the subaxle.
Last edited by BrianCunningham; 11-17-2006 at 11:19 PM.
11-17-2006, 08:23 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
CUSTOM REBUILABLE HUBS WITH BETTER BEARINGS FOR RACING NO SENSORS NEEDEDI'LL TEST THEM !!!!!!!!!!!ON BOTH THE C4 AND THE C5 ATHOUGH THE 5 HAS NO PROBLEMS THE 4 GOES THOUGH BEARINGS EVERY 5 TRACK DAYS.. I'M SERIOUS JUST LET ME KNOW.....
Last edited by TRACKMAN2; 11-17-2006 at 08:29 PM.
11-17-2006, 11:29 PM
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I'll do whatever you guys want C4/5/6
The C5/6's are easier to do since they're not part of the upper link.
You put lots of HP and slicks into a C4's subaxles and this happens
The C5/6's are easier to do since they're not part of the upper link.
You put lots of HP and slicks into a C4's subaxles and this happens
Last edited by BrianCunningham; 11-17-2006 at 11:35 PM.
11-18-2006, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianCunningham
The ABS, traction control and active handling need the input.
The sensor can be pulled off the old one.
I could just use rears in the front put a small shaft in to spin a wheel for the sensor.
You could just reuse the stock sensor.
The rear needs a bearing on the inside to support the subaxle.
The sensor can be pulled off the old one.
I could just use rears in the front put a small shaft in to spin a wheel for the sensor.
You could just reuse the stock sensor.
The rear needs a bearing on the inside to support the subaxle.
11-18-2006, 09:04 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by AU N EGL
OK I was thinking more to using the Bosch PCM electronics and Bosch wiring harness instead of the ACDelco if I ever get a C6Z. That way I could hopefully get ride of the electronic BS of the C6
Brian, are you going to keep the Corvette 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern? Those Coleman spindles are 5X5 and that means all new wheels.
11-18-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ghoffman
Wow, that would be a huge undertaking and lots of software debugging for a very minor benefit. It is really not a big deal on the C6Z. I don't find it to be very noticeable in the real world especially since I don't drag race. The car is very, very quick and has way more power than grip even with my 345's. Ask Brian who started this post what this car is like at NHIS, I gave him a ride this summer at NHIS.
Brian, are you going to keep the Corvette 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern? Those Coleman spindles are 5X5 and that means all new wheels.
Brian, are you going to keep the Corvette 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern? Those Coleman spindles are 5X5 and that means all new wheels.
That was kinda what I was wondering. OK Toss that idea.
11-18-2006, 01:35 PM
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What size wheels are available with the 5 x 5 setup? All the NASCAR guys run 15 inch steel wheels.
Bill
Bill
11-18-2006, 03:51 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by BrianCunningham
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1552588
I'd like to partition the SCCA to allow them in Stock or at least Street Prepared. They would have more drag, they just last longer.
I'd like to partition the SCCA to allow them in Stock or at least Street Prepared. They would have more drag, they just last longer.
You could make the part that bolts on to the upright from from the existing part (recut it to fit the new outer races and then press in the new bearing race) and then make a new shaft and wheel/brake flange that would fit your modded housing. The reason to get rid of the old shaft and flange is that they break anyway, and lots of folks would like a betterone. You could upgrade them to 4130 material and add some thickness and that would elimnate the breakage issue for good. It might also make it a lot less expensive to do it that way since the housing is about half of your machining cost and recutting the races wouldn't cost all that much.
Good luck. I have always thought that there is a market for this kind of thing. At what they charge for the replacement parts, if you could show that it would last twice as long you would have a lot of folks lining up to buy them...
11-18-2006, 07:41 PM
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That Z definitely hauls azz Gary! 
I've had one request for the 5x5, and where Coleman does make hubs with the regular Chevy 5x4 3/4.
http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog...?cPath=32_1099
But I really want to make something that's a direct fit. Think stock but with replaceable roller bearings instead of sealed ball bearings. Coleman's 5x4 3/4 may fit, I need to get the distance from the back of the hub to the outside surface of the drive flange. If it doesn't fit, then I just need to machine up a hub that accepts there stock bearings. Off the shelf parts would be the best though.
Originally Posted by ghoffman
Brian, are you going to keep the Corvette 5 x 4 3/4 bolt pattern? Those Coleman spindles are 5X5 and that means all new wheels.
http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog...?cPath=32_1099
But I really want to make something that's a direct fit. Think stock but with replaceable roller bearings instead of sealed ball bearings. Coleman's 5x4 3/4 may fit, I need to get the distance from the back of the hub to the outside surface of the drive flange. If it doesn't fit, then I just need to machine up a hub that accepts there stock bearings. Off the shelf parts would be the best though.
11-20-2006, 04:12 PM
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I've already seen enough interest for me to pursue this. There's enough people doing HPDEs to support they're developement. I'll post pictures here as I progress. So consider it underway. 
I've contacted the SCCA and I'll be sending them drawings of parts. I'm hoping if they're involved during it's developement, I can get it approved for the stock classes, but even if it doesn't I'm going to pursue it.
I've contacted the SCCA and I'll be sending them drawings of parts. I'm hoping if they're involved during it's developement, I can get it approved for the stock classes, but even if it doesn't I'm going to pursue it.
11-20-2006, 04:45 PM
#16
Former Vendor
This is a great idea, we did it to the car we brought to Lemans back in the early 90's. We measured the runout on a car that was being tracked at crazy hot temps. You don't even want to know how much runout there really is!!!
Randy
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11-21-2006, 12:23 AM
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A great explaination of what's going on, along with a pic, was posted in the C4 section. BTW C5&6 similar.
Originally Posted by CentralCoaster
If you need help convincing them, tell them the same bearing is used on the front of the 82 Buick Riviera and Cadillac, and those cars are better off as they don't use the bearing to carry upper camber arm loads.
Rocco16, under the car's own weight, the halfshafts are under compression. This same force tries to spread apart the two halves of the bearing. (Recall that the spindle shoulder pushes on the rotating part of the bearing, and not the knuckle).
Under hard cornering, lateral forces on your inside rear tire will put the halfshaft under more compression which inturn tries to pull half the bearings out of their races (although the compression due to weight on that corner will be reduced.)
The current wheel bearing sucks because the ***** and the load angle means they can't hold a lot of side force. On all the FWD sedan applications where it's used, the bearing will only see radial forces from weight and twisting from lateral tire loads in turns. You can see by the load angle that the bearing will perform well under both circumstances.
This is why when I sent my resume to GM R&D, they told me I was overqualified and to **** off and apply at BMW instead. (ok, the last part didn't really happen.)
Brian's setup will be the same on paper, but the rollers will have more load bearing surface, and be serviceable. It'd be fun to compare them in a hydraulic press.
Rocco16, under the car's own weight, the halfshafts are under compression. This same force tries to spread apart the two halves of the bearing. (Recall that the spindle shoulder pushes on the rotating part of the bearing, and not the knuckle).
Under hard cornering, lateral forces on your inside rear tire will put the halfshaft under more compression which inturn tries to pull half the bearings out of their races (although the compression due to weight on that corner will be reduced.)
The current wheel bearing sucks because the ***** and the load angle means they can't hold a lot of side force. On all the FWD sedan applications where it's used, the bearing will only see radial forces from weight and twisting from lateral tire loads in turns. You can see by the load angle that the bearing will perform well under both circumstances.
This is why when I sent my resume to GM R&D, they told me I was overqualified and to **** off and apply at BMW instead.
(ok, the last part didn't really happen.)Brian's setup will be the same on paper, but the rollers will have more load bearing surface, and be serviceable. It'd be fun to compare them in a hydraulic press.
