Help with autocross Setup
01-18-2007, 01:33 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Help with autocross Setup
Thinking about racing belond the 1/4 mile also. I have a stock 99FRC that I would use. What mods, tires etc. would you recommend. Try to keep it under 10K please.
Thanks Jay
Thanks Jay
01-18-2007, 09:19 AM
#4
Team Owner
Drive first! You can save money for tires and assorted suspension mods after you get a good feel of how autocross works. Seat time is cheap and the experience allows you to get an idea how the car handles and what steps you can take to make improvements.
Sometime you can add too many things to a car which can adversely affect handling and then you have to sort things out.
This is some good reading for autocross Novices: http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm
A new alignment is an easy mod and will help you even as a novice:http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm
Enter a half-dozen events to get a feel for autocross. Most events will have Novice classes where you can run against other Novices (Novii?); there are typically no equipment restrictions but most cars will be completely stock. While you are there, ask some experienced drivers if you can ride with them or have them ride with you. Some events allow passengers, some don't so be sure and ask first.
Sometime you can add too many things to a car which can adversely affect handling and then you have to sort things out.
This is some good reading for autocross Novices: http://www.tirerack.com/features/solo2/handbook.htm
A new alignment is an easy mod and will help you even as a novice:http://www.vbandp.com/instructions/h...ruct/align.htm
Enter a half-dozen events to get a feel for autocross. Most events will have Novice classes where you can run against other Novices (Novii?); there are typically no equipment restrictions but most cars will be completely stock. While you are there, ask some experienced drivers if you can ride with them or have them ride with you. Some events allow passengers, some don't so be sure and ask first.
Last edited by c4cruiser; 01-18-2007 at 09:22 AM.
01-18-2007, 09:32 AM
#5
Melting Slicks
Tires (I like the Kumho V710)
Brakes (Carbotech XP series)
Belts
Seat
and of course all the safety suit, gloves, boots, etc.
T1 sway bars
Take it to a pro shop (like Phoenix Performance) to set the CORRECT ride height, corner weight, alignment, and engine tune.
Once you get those and start getting plenty of seat time, get more and more seat time.
A well driven modest car will dust a poor driver in a rocket. Keeping the mods to a minimum will help ensure fewer things break and help ensure you get more seat time! There simply is no substitute!
Best of luck to you!
01-18-2007, 09:50 AM
#6
Le Mans Master
for your first few events, just drive the car as is and figure out what class you want to be in and that will determine the mods you can/have to do. Tires are going to be your biggest improvement in time, but there's no need to rush out and get another set right now. Easier to just learn on what you've got. The 1 think I would add that hasn't been mentioned yet is a good harness setup. it's a lot easier to drive when you don't have to hold yourself in the seat and it's legal in every class I know of.
01-18-2007, 01:36 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Thanks for all the help.
If I would ask a question like that in the drag racing or forced induction section, they would have spent my budget 3 times over.
If I would ask a question like that in the drag racing or forced induction section, they would have spent my budget 3 times over.
01-18-2007, 02:09 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Oh, we will too. It's just that we'll spend it with you getting behind the wheel and driving!
First mods:
1. Get a harness bar and some harnesses to hold yourself in the seat.
2. Get some leather skins for some sport seats and convert the seatbacks so you have some cutouts to pass the shoulder harnesses through.
3. Get a set of spare wheels and some mid-level R-compound tires, like the Toyo RA-1s or Kumho Victoracers. Yes, they make you look much better than street tires do, but my experience has been that they last as long or longer than street tires. Plus, they can be driven to/from the track. Can't say the same for the more dedicated Hoosiers or Kumho V710s.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
It's just that we'll spend it with you getting behind the wheel and driving!First mods:
1. Get a harness bar and some harnesses to hold yourself in the seat.
2. Get some leather skins for some sport seats and convert the seatbacks so you have some cutouts to pass the shoulder harnesses through.
3. Get a set of spare wheels and some mid-level R-compound tires, like the Toyo RA-1s or Kumho Victoracers. Yes, they make you look much better than street tires do, but my experience has been that they last as long or longer than street tires. Plus, they can be driven to/from the track. Can't say the same for the more dedicated Hoosiers or Kumho V710s.
HTH, and have a good one,
Mike
Last edited by VetteDrmr; 01-19-2007 at 08:50 AM. Reason: Re-read the original post about his stock FRC!
01-19-2007, 08:30 AM
#9
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
My first suggestion is to go and do an AutoX and if you like it enough to get into it on a more regular basis then look to see what other corvette owners are doing.
At a minimum though I would check your brake pads and also change your brake fluid. I might even change my oil if it was close to be old.
Probably your first purchases will be better brake pads and then maybe a harness setup to keep you in the seat. After that would be suspension and then tires.
Depending on how much you plan on doing will depend on how far you go with the mods. I love road racing so I am now moving to Coilovers with my T1 bars. I am willing to scarifice so things on the road o have a better track car.
You might not want to do that and maybe a set of 04 Z06 shocks with 04 Z06 sway bars will be good for you.
Believe me it can easily add up to tons of money if you dont think and plan it all out.
being safe and having fun are the two most important parts of the equation....
01-19-2007, 01:59 PM
#10
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Jay auto crossing is great, but I would suggest trying road racing, there's nothing like it! I'll keep you in the loop when the ECS crew goes up to Watkins Glen or Pocono, there is usually a large group in all levels, we have a great time.
To get started and have a lot of fun it will not cost a ton of money, like others have said, maybe a pad swap, fluid change and safty check and your ready to go. The more you get into it the higher the costs can go with seat belts, tires, sway bars and so on, but the seat time is well worth it IMO. We post up on the N.E. section and on ECSracing.com with the dates that the group are going, it will make it a bit easier to go with a group that knows the ropes already.
01-19-2007, 02:20 PM
#11
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St. Jude Donor '05-'08
Jay auto crossing is great, but I would suggest trying road racing, there's nothing like it! I'll keep you in the loop when the ECS crew goes up to Watkins Glen or Pocono, there is usually a large group in all levels, we have a great time.
To get started and have a lot of fun it will not cost a ton of money, like others have said, maybe a pad swap, fluid change and safty check and your ready to go. The more you get into it the higher the costs can go with seat belts, tires, sway bars and so on, but the seat time is well worth it IMO. We post up on the N.E. section and on ECSracing.com with the dates that the group are going, it will make it a bit easier to go with a group that knows the ropes already.
To get started and have a lot of fun it will not cost a ton of money, like others have said, maybe a pad swap, fluid change and safty check and your ready to go. The more you get into it the higher the costs can go with seat belts, tires, sway bars and so on, but the seat time is well worth it IMO. We post up on the N.E. section and on ECSracing.com with the dates that the group are going, it will make it a bit easier to go with a group that knows the ropes already.
I was talking to Jay off line and this is the response
Originally Posted by 4DRUSH
I apparently am not decribing the proper type of racing than. I was refering to the type of racing that you and Doug do.
01-19-2007, 02:53 PM
#12
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Jay,
A lot of good advice here. I will start with some basic things you should check before you go to an event. My recommendations are for both autocrossing and HPDEs. Since you have an older car one of them is the lower control arm bushings. Depending on how many miles you have on the car and how it has been used previously the front lower control arms may have slid backwards on the bushings. This can result in metal to metal contact between the control arms and the cradle. It will also make it difficult to get a good alignment. I would also make sure the other suspension bushings are in good shape.
Check the ball joints and wheel bearings for excessive play and check your brake calipers, pads and rotors. Stock pads are fine for an autocross but it is best if they have at least 20% pad thickness left. If you are doing an HPDE new stock pads will work for novices as long as they are burnished in before running at speed. Check the calipers to make sure the guide pin bolts and mounts are tight and do not allow excessive caliper movement/play. The rotors should be within spec. Novices running an HPDE are just not hard enough on their cars to justify a lot of mods before they get some seat time. Just before an HPDE flush the brake fluid with some Ford Super Duty fluid or some other good fluid (a lot are recommeded on this forum and they are all good).
A thorough check of the suspension and brake systems and correction of any problems will give you car that is tight and easier to control.
Going to a few autocrosses will give you an idea how your car handles so they are a cheap way to get to know your car before you jump into an HPDE. As for modifying your seat to allow harness pass through be careful since some rules prohibit such modifications in stock classes and move you into a modified class. For beginners the stock harness can provide a lot of support if used correctly. Each C4 and C5 Corvette seat belt setup has a cinch capability. On the C5s this is initiated by pulling the lap belt all the way out. Once it is out you can hear it ratcheting as you let it slide back into the take up reel. At this point make sure your seat is all the way back and fasten the belt. Then using your hand encourage the belt to go into the take up reel as much as you can. Once that is done run the seat forward until you feel like the lap belt is going to cut you in half. When you start your run the shoulder portion of the belt will lock also and you will be held in place almost as well as a 6 point harness. Once you finish the run unfasten the belt and let it go all the way into the take up reel to release cinch mode. Proper seating position is important so when I do this I make sure the seat back is fairly vertical and that when sitting with my back against the seat my wrist will rest on the top of the steering wheel without stretching. What ever do not recline the seat so far that your arms are extended since you lose the ability to control the wheel properly.
Some other thoughts:
I have been doing autocrosses since 1991 and HPDEs since 1992. I bought my 97 in early 97 and did not update it with a harness/roll bar and 6 point harnesses until 2002. I did not go to higher performance brake pads until 2000. A set of stock C5 pads would last me two days at Watkins Glen and I was getting around the track as good or better as everybody else in the advanced groups that I ran in.
If you do not have a seat that allows a harness pass through you are better off using the stock harness set up. Shoulder harnesses (even ones with sternum straps) that go around the outside of the seat back are dangerous and some organizations are thinking of banning them. At most HPDEs your instructors have to have the same set up you do so what ever changes you do in this area you have to do to both sides.
Once you have some seat time you can then decide how you want to proceed with safety and performance mods.
Although you are in York County Corvette Club area you may want to see about joining Lancaster County Corvettes. They are quite active in autocrossing and HPDEs.
Go have some fun.
Bill
A lot of good advice here. I will start with some basic things you should check before you go to an event. My recommendations are for both autocrossing and HPDEs. Since you have an older car one of them is the lower control arm bushings. Depending on how many miles you have on the car and how it has been used previously the front lower control arms may have slid backwards on the bushings. This can result in metal to metal contact between the control arms and the cradle. It will also make it difficult to get a good alignment. I would also make sure the other suspension bushings are in good shape.
Check the ball joints and wheel bearings for excessive play and check your brake calipers, pads and rotors. Stock pads are fine for an autocross but it is best if they have at least 20% pad thickness left. If you are doing an HPDE new stock pads will work for novices as long as they are burnished in before running at speed. Check the calipers to make sure the guide pin bolts and mounts are tight and do not allow excessive caliper movement/play. The rotors should be within spec. Novices running an HPDE are just not hard enough on their cars to justify a lot of mods before they get some seat time. Just before an HPDE flush the brake fluid with some Ford Super Duty fluid or some other good fluid (a lot are recommeded on this forum and they are all good).
A thorough check of the suspension and brake systems and correction of any problems will give you car that is tight and easier to control.
Going to a few autocrosses will give you an idea how your car handles so they are a cheap way to get to know your car before you jump into an HPDE. As for modifying your seat to allow harness pass through be careful since some rules prohibit such modifications in stock classes and move you into a modified class. For beginners the stock harness can provide a lot of support if used correctly. Each C4 and C5 Corvette seat belt setup has a cinch capability. On the C5s this is initiated by pulling the lap belt all the way out. Once it is out you can hear it ratcheting as you let it slide back into the take up reel. At this point make sure your seat is all the way back and fasten the belt. Then using your hand encourage the belt to go into the take up reel as much as you can. Once that is done run the seat forward until you feel like the lap belt is going to cut you in half. When you start your run the shoulder portion of the belt will lock also and you will be held in place almost as well as a 6 point harness. Once you finish the run unfasten the belt and let it go all the way into the take up reel to release cinch mode. Proper seating position is important so when I do this I make sure the seat back is fairly vertical and that when sitting with my back against the seat my wrist will rest on the top of the steering wheel without stretching. What ever do not recline the seat so far that your arms are extended since you lose the ability to control the wheel properly.
Some other thoughts:
I have been doing autocrosses since 1991 and HPDEs since 1992. I bought my 97 in early 97 and did not update it with a harness/roll bar and 6 point harnesses until 2002. I did not go to higher performance brake pads until 2000. A set of stock C5 pads would last me two days at Watkins Glen and I was getting around the track as good or better as everybody else in the advanced groups that I ran in.
If you do not have a seat that allows a harness pass through you are better off using the stock harness set up. Shoulder harnesses (even ones with sternum straps) that go around the outside of the seat back are dangerous and some organizations are thinking of banning them. At most HPDEs your instructors have to have the same set up you do so what ever changes you do in this area you have to do to both sides.
Once you have some seat time you can then decide how you want to proceed with safety and performance mods.
Although you are in York County Corvette Club area you may want to see about joining Lancaster County Corvettes. They are quite active in autocrossing and HPDEs.
Go have some fun.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 01-19-2007 at 03:16 PM.