FasterIsBetter

I hope this is not a repost, but I just ran across this video on another auto website. It's an interesting object lesson in how NOT to take a corner. The video was apparently shot at "Idiot's Corner" on the Nurenbergring in German, some time in the late 60's or early 70's at some sort of car event. For those who believe in keeping all 4 wheels on the ground, pay particular attention to the steering input of the drivers who don't successfully handle the corner. Interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...59738855&hl=en



Steve

95jersey

I don't understand how these cars flip over from simply spinning out. I mean I have seen a hundred (also have done a couple myself :-) ) spin outs, but unless they hit something, I have never seen a car flip over by the grip of it's own tires...that is wild.

Jim 47

It's those hi-tech 60's chassis along with the jurks that are quickly jurking the steering wheel.

Jim

FasterIsBetter

It's an interesting observation that is even applicable to modern cars, though you will notice that most of the ones that turn over have rather high centers of gravity. I think you'll notice that the ones that flip turn their wheels with the spin early on, rather than against it. And several of them, like the second car (red), start spinning to the left, then snap the car back to the right, then put the car into an arc where it just goes over. The ones who avoid flipping most often straighten their wheels and hit the brakes immediately. Those that flip are the ones that try to drive their way out.

Gives new meaning to the old addage -- When you spin, both feet in.



Plus, it doesn't help that many of those cars don't have the greatest suspension or steering, have very high centers of gravity, and are riding on very narrow wheels.

AU N EGL

Seems to me back in the 60's my mothers 59 VW Bug's brakes were horable too.

FasterIsBetter

And in case you don't think it can happen in today's cars, check out this clip that was all over the TV a while back:

http://www.guzer.com/videos/suv_rollover.php

Again, watch her front wheels. Instead of keeping her wheels straight and riding it out on the shoulder, she turns sharply to get back on the road. The rest, as we say, is history. She's lucky to be alive. The rollover was avoidable, if she had known what to do -- keep the wheels straight and ride it to a stop on the shoulder.

rudyarias

What brakes, I remember sticking one's feet through the floor on to the pavement to stop

AJRocketeer

Wrong, look at the wheels again, they are turned to the left, not right, she turned too sharply to begin with and the rear came all the way around. She was counter steering to save it.

FasterIsBetter

Disagree. I've watched that video quite a few times. She swings left, then turns the wheels to the right. That causes the rear end to kick out to the left, then she tries to countersteer and by then it's all over. When she first goes off the road, she could have just gone straight. Instead, she swings the front end to the right and it's all over. The countersteering at that point can't overcome the forces and the car rolls. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, but I don't think so.

99BlackZ51

It's funny, Ralph Nader made such a big deal about the safety of the Corvair -"Unsafe At Any Speed" yet nothing was said about the Bug!? The VW was actually less safe since it had a higher center of gravity and the same swing arm rear suspension /engine setup. Those cars were made for fifty some years without anyone saying anything but Ralph had to take up a crusade to kill the Corvair??? I never did understand that.

When I was at college another student I knew was killed when the bug he was riding in rolled on a flat, straight road.

Sorry if I got off topic but watching all those Bugs roll reminded me of that.

Scott

AJRocketeer

It is hard to tell, i see it as she turned to go straight, not to jerk it back in the lane but the momentum pulled the rear around on the dirt. Just looking at the delay of the lean initially.

Bill Dearborn

Actually what I saw was a driver countersteering by turning into the skid (as backend slides right turn to the right) but not correctly anticipating the correction the car was going to make going the other way and was late on turning the wheel back to the left to catch the slide to the left. This is the old countersteer, pause, catch the snap routine. He just didn't catch the snap.

One thing I noticed is they didn't seem to believe in seat belts. The one Beetle driver fell out of the car while it was still sliding sideways. If it had caught its tires and rolled he would have been toast. Another driver got out of the passenger side door while the car was still settling.

Bill

Lancer033

***************JUST FOR THE RECORD****************

IF you have never been to that track, that corner WILL take you by suprise, it's totally blind going up hill into a slight corner, then after it's too late, the corner tightens up, leaving you with no choice but to take the grass.

not that I would ever do that, I always took that corner perfect

BrianCunningham

Looks like H Stock at an autocross, high CoG and soft suspensions.

wtknght1

There's also a clip on "World's most amazing videos" (or some show similar to that), where a stunt driver is in a BMW (I think), going backward and then tries to swing the car around to go straight forward again - but during the slide to get straight, the tires dig in to the tarmac and actually flip the car onto its roof. I guess it can happen any time.

robvuk

All those cars flipping and I'll bet none of them had seatbelts. Back in those days a lot of the cars didn't even have them and when they did, they were lap belts only, tucked in between the seat cushion and back.

I think I remember Ralph Nader ended the VW bug too.

Today's equivalent to the VW bug is the modern behemoth SUV. They just don't make sense to me. Dangerous to drive on any highway. High CoG and soft suspensions = rollovers. I think the newer crossover vehicles are finally addressing that issue. That SUV rollover would have been a difficult situation for anybody. The first time I ever drove an Expedition on the highway is when I decided I'd never have a vehicle like that. I felt like it wanted to rollover just changing lanes at 75mph.

Bill Dearborn

If it was early 70s all cars had seat and shoulder belts. In the US Front Seat Belts became mandatory in 1964 and Shoulder belts became Mandatory in 1968 (Europe was probably a little ahead of the US as far as mandating belts)

Bill

robvuk

Except those were not all new cars. I think most of those were early 60's models. Although seat belts were mandatory in the U.S. I don't know what the situation was in Germany. In addition, very few people actually started using belts until it was made a law. Whenever that was. There are still a lot of idiots who don't use them.

mlongo99

That has to be the most unsafe thing I've ever seen on a closed course. 4 people in a convertable bug, top down, and no helmets. Those people are lucky they didn't flip. And bikes running at the same time as cars.

Bill Dearborn

The one guy on a bike looked like he just avoided disaster with his run off to the right side and then to the left. I thought he was going to hit the spectators on the hill at the exit of the turn before he finally got it slowed and turned enough to get back on track. Wonder if he had to clean anything latter that day?

Bill