JD21029

Spent the past weekend working on heel and toe downshifts. Never tried them before, but am looking to do a HPDE later in the spring and figured I should at least try.

Basically, all I do is put the heel of my right foot all the way over to the right until its resting against the firewall, then, keeping the heel planted, reach across the throttle (without touching it) and brake with my big toe, and then, with the brake depressed, roll my foot over to the outside so the right side of my foot blips the throttle.

I practiced in a school parking lot, timing the blip with the downshift. Getting the timing down was the hardest part. My understanding is that the purpose of heel/toe downshifts is to smoothly slow down the car and downshift, while avoiding any engine braking.

After an hour or two, I was able to get the timing down, with usually no engine braking. It just takes a little blip of the throttle; not that much.

My only concern is that I wasn't braking that hard; it was more just scrubbing some speed off. I don't know how effective my technique would be if I had to really stand on the brake. I can only push so hard with the big toe. I'm used to braking with the ball of my foot, but I can't do that and blip the throttle. Do you ever have to use this technique when you have to really lean into the brake?

Does it sound like I'm getting it?

davidfarmer

yes, that's it. Some day you'll look back at old video of yourself, and see how damaging your downshifts were (are). I'm not picking on you in particular, as I've got my old vids to prove it. It's that millisecond where you are decelerating hard, engine at idle, and you let the clutch out: you engine fly's up to the higher rpm, and just does a lot of wear on the clutch while everything meshes.

It all happens very fast on track. Leave the car in the higher gear until you are about 80% through the brake zone, then push in the clutch, swap gears, and just blip the throttle just a tad before letting the clutch back out. It is OK for the engine to do some braking, it is the CLUTCH that you want to protect. Depending on the car, some folks do multiple downshifts: however, on the Vettes/Porsches/BMW's etc that I've driven, I find a single downshift (regardless of gears skipped) works best for me.

TRAIL BOSS

You need more than a "Big Toe" on the brake.

You need to start from a good brake position first.

Good info here:

http://www.johnnyoconnell.com/2006/DrivingTips4.htm

You should get someone to show you the proper technique.

toolman44092

What I found while I was learning on actual high speed tracks is that you don't have to be perfect at first, but remember that getting your foot on the brake is the most important thing. If you miss the blip you'll have much less (if any) price to pay than if your foot slips off of the brake pedal during threshold braking.

Find a way to keep your foot firmly planted on the break while blipping the throttle and you'll be .

Jim 47

JD: You aredoing the right thing by getting some practice in before you go to the track, but the technique that you have described is, in my opinion, not the best way to execute the heel/toe method of downshifting.

The purpose of the "heel/toe" is to match up the RPMs of the drivetrain to the engine RPMs in a very smooth manner, while also under HARD braking. Theroitically, all the braking is coming from the brakes while you are selecting a lower gear in your transmission. This will permit good throttle response,and better car control and acceleration at the lower car speed as you go through a corner.

The method that is used by myself and many others is to brake with the part of the foot at the base of your big toe (the left side of the BALL of your foot). This leaves the right-upper side of your right foot to be used to roll over onto the accelerator to "blip" the accelerator (which gives you the higher engine RPMs just at the right instant when you release the clutch with the transmission in the lower gear. By instantly speeding up the engine as you release the clutch, the transission into the lower gear will be smooth (if you have matched the RPMs correctly) and you will avoid getting an unsettling learch of the car. My foot is actually is pointing up and to the right (toward the accelerator) while I am applying a great deal of force to the brake pedal.

If you do not match up the RPMs correctly you have the potential of upsetting the balance of the car under braking which can cause an off-course trip- or- after mistreating your car with violent downshifts, you will destroy the clutch (I have seen students do this) or do damage to the drivetrain.

Keep working on this technique and it will help you to be very smooth on the track, and being smooth leads to be fast. Best of luck.

Jim Helm

95jersey

Be careful, learning to heel and toe in a parket lot while going slow is easy, because it's the only thing your doing.

Now imagine flying into a corner at 130mph, with tire walls 15 feet from the turn, cars in front and behind you at similar speed, while trying to take a high speed corner at 75mph. That is when this technique gets tricky and dangerous. You can't afford to unsettle the suspension or do something that will freak out the cars that are 10 feet away from you.

Ever take a corner so fast, where you feel any sudden move or upset to the momentum will throw the car in a spin or at a wall? Once you get fast, that is how every turn will feel and you want to make sure you can repeat safe/perfect high speed rev matching heel to toe EVERY time.

It took my a long time to heel and toe at high track speeds vs in a parking lot.

Not trying to be downer, just don't want you to get in trouble at 100mph

BuckeyeZ06

Once you get the hang out it, H/T becomes second nature. However, I needed help getting there initially: we screwed a clear piece of plastic on the gas pedal to make it easier for my small foot (no comments please) to roll into it. No I don't need it, but this "training wheel" made all the difference at first.

I ran my first year and a half in T1 without heal-toe downshifting. I think doing it makes so much of a difference.

folsomlarry

David,

When you drop down to the gear that you want do you ever double clutch. A friend of mine who raced Atlantic and IMSA racing told me I should learn to double clutch to save the gear box. Once I started doing it it became second nature. Just wondering it that is something that is still being used.

Larry

GTB/ZR-1

Very true... You need to perfect 'aiming' for the proper part of the brake pedal--consistently.

And yes, w/ proper pads & brake bleeding, you'll be able to put enough pressure on the brake w/ essentially half of your foot.

The other thing to be careful of is be sure the right half of your foot is 'curled' up when applying heavy brake pressure--or else you'll be on the gas (as well as the brake) when you're trying to stop!

Olitho

I agree, my Z16 I started tracking has an Elite Engineering type of brake pedal and throttle pedal enhancement. It helped me at first.

Now I have another car I race and it has stock pedals and I actually prefer the extra room to work my feet under hard braking, etc. So it does not have the larger pedal additions.

Gatorac

You may find that your parking lot practice won't help. When you threshold brake your foot will be considerable lower.

Commit to practicing it at an OT event. Stay out of traffic and threshold brake a little early to give you some cushion if you screw up.

After 30 minutes you won't know how to drive without heel-toe.

If you want to practice at home, leave the car off and practice WOT to brake pedal quickly. This will help the muscle memory of getting your foot in the right location on the brake pedal every time. I find that's what screwed me up the most at first. Having your foot hit the brake pedal 1/2" off can cause problems.

Rogue Leader

I heal/toe at all possible times. Thats the only way it becomes second nature, and as it is even on gradual slowdowns I always double clutch my downshifts. Your clutch will appreciate it.

And remember there are 4 BIG cheap brakes and 1 TINY expensive clutch, which one should be slowing the car down? Downshifting is to put the car into the correct gear to get the best acceleration for the speed you will be going when you accelerate.

AUTO_X_AL

Never give up a good brake. I heel and toe my DD but it's much diffrent at 100-130 mph.

Al

wtknght1

Nope You're wearing it out faster. Engaging and disengaging the clutch wears it out faster. Think about it. Double clutching is not necessary and wastes time and energy. You don't need that on cars today - haven't for years and years. A nice smooth single clutch HEEL/toe downshift if done correctly will take good care of your driveline...and not wear out your clutch.

JD21029

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Never giving up the good braking seems to be the universal comment. I'm aware that the parking lot practice was not like track time, but I was just trying to get the motion and timing down before I hit the track. I realize the timing will be quicker on the track, but you gotta walk before you run.

I guess I'm still having a hard time figuring out how to brake with the ball of my foot and blip the throttle at the same time. I have size 11 wide feet, so you would think my foot is wide enough.

So instead of angling my foot to the left, it should angle to the right? I just don't see how I reach the throttle that way.

Sorry for all the questions.

wtknght1

You don't really have to angle your foot so to speak. Place the ball of your foot (large area at the base of your big toe) on the brake pedal and press hard. Push the clutch in (with your left foot); roll your ankle over to "blip" the throttle while moving the shifter to the lower gear. [You should still have hard pressure on the brake pedal.] Just as the revs start to drop a bit, release the clutch smoothly.

When done correctly, the car won't lurch forward or lock up the rear tires.

The part that will actually touch the gas pedal is the bottom right side of your right foot. My foot is large, but narrow, so I had to put a metal plate on my brake pedal to get it closer to the gas as well as raise the brake surface up a bit.

Just keep at it...you'll get it!!!!

Bill Hetzel

JD, like Chris said, you don't have to angle your foot. With my 9 1/2's I can heel and toe in a C4,5,6 with my foot at a natural angle. I do it all the time on the street without thinking about it.
One thing I've done with some students is to take them out on a lonely road and practice h&t using a 6-5 downshift. They were having trouble at the track (or parking lot) where everything comes at you so fast. We do about 15-20 downshifts, then go back to the track and do some 5-4 downshifts at lower speeds. I also have them practice at lower rpm like under 3500.Once their technique starts to get smooth, I have them pick up the rpm and speed. I don't have them get near threshold braking until they get smooth.
This seems to work for me and my students. All it takes is practice.

VetteDrmr

JD,

May be a wrong assumption on my part, but from your first post it sounds like you're getting ready for your first DE.

If that's the case, then I would put the H&T technique on the back burner. Work on learning what your instructor is telling you, and when you need to downshift, don't worry about braking at the same time. Instead, finish your braking, then downshift with a blip of the throttle, with your foot off the brake pedal (you've already finished braking, remember?).

Is this slower? Yes. Is it something you want to continue doing? No. But, it's better than losing a good brake pedal or turning in at the correct point for the apex.

One of the things that isn't point out much when H&T conversations come up is "how much to blip the throttle?" This will help you learn that, and later (maybe in the same session), as you start getting more comfortable, you can start experimenting with H&T.

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike

Bavarian Motorist

I don't understand... It's very easy to match RPMs when downshifting, or maybe I am just good at it...

What is the benefit of heel and toeing? Just in case you mess up?


Maybe I'm not quite understanding.

ErnieN85

Well they are talking race track here. Your wheels are just on the edge of sliding. The idea is to match the engine speed to the rear wheels speed so that there is no sudden deceleration which whould make the reare wheels slide and spin you off track. (in a turn) it's easy to do it right when you are not on the edge. quite another when you are in a pack of cars 10 feet off each other and going 100mph into a turn!