jfaphoenix32

The 4th Southeast SCCA Divisional race is on this weekend at Roebling Road...

Qualifying Results:

1. Croyle 1:15.4
2. Ingle 1:15.9
3. Snow 1:19.0

Race Results... Sorry no times yet...

1. Croyle
2. Snow
3. Ingle...

Brother Tom reports that Croyle led from the start and Chris fell out with some type of mechanical problem...



For those who are interested, here are some other results from qualifying...

T-2 Qualifying:

Tice 1:21.1
Lira 1:23.5

No results yet for that race...

In T-3 Qualifying...

wilsom 1:22.3 Cobalt SC
Kramer 1:22.5 Saturn
Wheeler 1:22.8 Cobalt SC

In SSB Qualifying...

Guest Solstice 1:25.1
Amy Aquilante Solstice 1:26.0
Urso Mini 1:26.0
Tom Aquilante 1:26.1
Beth. Aquilante 1:26.3
R davis 1:26.4

AU N EGL

Sure are a lot of Aquiltani names in SSB.

Thanks Joe

jfaphoenix32

Time for the next generation...

Tom is my brother, Beth and Amy are Both Penn State Students..
Bethis a senior, Amy is a freshman...

davidfarmer

sorry Chris' luck finally broke...interesting to hear what went wrong.

Todd Benne

BK















Just kidding.

wtknght1

It was just a horrible weekend from the start. It began with that sound meter they have there and just got worse. I couldn't figure out the shocks and then half way thru the race, one or both of my half shaft U-joints went crunch...so I was done. I'll write up the full report later today or tomorrow as time permits, but just as a tease, has anybody ever heard the term "Sound Avoidance???" Wait til you hear this.... (no pun intended)

AU N EGL

Sound Avoidance? is that like turning tail piles down or away fromt the sound meter ?

Racer-38

I told you so Chris.................
they got me at 106+Db, I went to a Porsche guy, bought some 90's from him and it dropped me down below the 103 (not sure how much).
Roebling is the only track that I have to use those at.

Sorry about your bad luck!!! What did you think of the new track surface?? Did you have any problems with the left front tire? My car pushed like a dump truck and I corded every tire I put on the left front. For the race I put a tire w/ 6 heat cycles on it and it still came back in shreds( all the corvettes there had the same problem). We were the first on the new pavement so i'm hoping the problem has gone away.

racerwannabe

we had similer tire issues there im october..but the new surface was smooth....i thought my push was me....found a loose sway bar....
johnny

wtknght1

Please forgive the long read, but this is what I sent to the members of the Southeast Division after the sound level fiasco this weekend at Roebling...and more so about the operating officials on Friday. If anyone wants to see the documents mentioned in this post, email me and I'll be happy to send them to you!

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I wasn’t sure exactly who I needed to send this information to, but I’m assuming it will end up in the correct hands eventually. And, I’m sending this via email to you, but am mailing a copy of it to Richard McCloy at Roebling. Since Roebling is an SCCA owned track, officials from the SCCA should be aware of the fiasco that happened this weekend. For now, I’m only directing this toward the Southeast Division and not at the national office.

I’m going to attempt to explain all of this without getting emotional, but please forgive me if I slip now and again. Let me also preface what I’m about to say by indicating that despite my catalytic converters being removed this year, I have never had a sound reading more than 98 dbs at any track…at any time. I won the T1 race at Sebring, Homestead and CMP this year and tested at CMP and VIR last year with the cats removed too. I have been coming to Roebling for 17 years and never had a reading in the triple digits either.

The event I’m about to describe was the Friday test day, Saturday qualifying, and Sunday race during the most recent Tom Nehl National at Roebling Road, Savannah, GA… 2-4 March 2007. I arrived Friday morning and went out during the morning test group, but we were black flagged after just two laps due to an incident on track. When we were let out again, on the second lap, sound reported a level of 104.2 for my 2001 Corvette Z06 which I compete in class T1. They IMMEDIATELY BLACK FLAGGED ME and said I’d have to go back into the paddock and fix the problem before re-entering the track. Again, it was a test day and not specifically subject to the GCR. However, the track is owned by the SCCA, and according to the “Rules of Roebling Road” (see attached), “After 2 readings exceeding the 103.0-db limits, the racer will be black flagged, brought in, told of the infraction and given a chance to correct the situation.” The officials working the test day did not abide by those rules and were removing any and all drivers from the track after just one infraction…all day long. And there was a bunch of us!!!!!!!!! My first session was a total of 4 laps.

After parking my car, I tried to talk to the officials on site (pit, start/finish, tower) but was basically talked to like it was my first event ever – RUDELY! The term condescending or belittling is a good way to describe it. I always run a scanner in my car and listen to the corner workers and heard others being black-flagged throughout the day and were immediately sent back to the paddock as well. I asked the officials on site to please check their sound meters because a very high number of cars were topping the 103 limit and that was extremely unusual. Again, I was blown off and not taken seriously.

I believe the primary officials working that day were: John Horn, Darrell Mallard, Larry Kuwinski and Larry Buhl. I’m not sure of the spelling of these names as I was going from what Richard McCloy and his wife told me later on when I talked to them.

Just before Friday’s second session (just before lunch), I inspected the car to ensure the exhaust was in good shape and the car was in good working order. It was! When our second session started, I purposely moved to the right going down the front straight and also lifted off the throttle slightly near the sound meter to avoid going over 103 dbs and having my whole session black flagged. Again, I run a scanner in the car and could hear Larry Buhl “complaining” that I was moving over away from his meter and lifting off the throttle. It was like he was getting great pleasure from “nailing” drivers who were too loud. I also heard the start finish marshal talking about it as well. After a few laps, I heard them say to give me a furled black, which they did. So from that point on, I simply lifted off the throttle as I passed the sound meter. At no time did I go over 103 dbs.

At lunch, I went to the snack bar to talk to each of them about this sound issue. I explained to them that my car was in perfect working order and there was nothing wrong with the exhaust and the engine was just a stock Corvette engine. I also said that this was the only time my car had ever come close to those sound readings. I said that I wasn’t trying to “**** anyone off” and that I was attempting to get my session in without going over the sound limit. Larry Buhl seemed incensed at that fact!! He said I was avoiding the sound, etc. etc. I asked all of them if the GT cars, who run their exhaust out the right side of the car (away from the sound meter) if that could also be considered sound avoidance. The tower official said, “Well, yeah, I guess it is.” I shook his hand and then tried to shake Larry’s hand and talk specifically about the problem. NOT ONLY WOULD HE NOT SHAKE MY HAND, BUT SAID: “I don’t want to shake your hand…I don’t want to know you, who you are, or anything about you.” I tried talking with him a bit more and asked him again to shake my hand and get this issue behind us…and he still refused!

I decided to go look at the sound board again. Larry actually went to the effort of scratching through my sound readings, blacking it out completely, and adding an asterisk next to my car number. Down at the bottom, he actually wrote: “* #7 T1 Sound Avoidance” (please see the attached sheet. It’s a bit hard to read due to the scanning, but you can still make it out.) In 18 years of track driving and 8 years of racing, I’ve never once heard the term “sound avoidance.” And no where have I ever read that you can’t use all of the race track or lift off the throttle.

During the third session, I again ran my scanner and listened to the officials commenting on and on about me lifting going down the front straight (“He’s lifting!”). One of the tower officials said: “He’s playing the game.” During the last 4 laps of the session, I decide to find out what kind of reading I’d get, so I made sure I kept full throttle all the way down the front straight…and apparently was under the 103 db mark because they didn’t say anything. They did say however that “he’s still lifting” which was absolutely NOT TRUE as my data and video can attest to. The guy who was helping me that day (Lance Snyder) can also verify that and what the track officials were saying.

I came into the pit lane to let Lance check my tires. The pit lane official was slowly walking down toward me and I waved to him to come over to my car. I told him that I did not lift on the last 4 laps. He said that I clearly was…and I told him that I’d show him my data and video. He also said: “so, you’re admitting that you’ve been lifting before” (like it was a crime!?). The other officials then said that I was not allowed to come back on track for the rest of the day and that I should be escorted out. The pit lane official said something to the effect that “he’s running a scanner and listening to everything we say…and was being abusive” ?!?!?!!?!?!?!?! Again, except for the first session, none of my laps were over 103 yet they were not letting me run on track.

I also want to make one thing perfectly clear – at no time during this entire day was I ever abusive to anyone. Lance heard virtually every single word that was said during these exchanges and can attest to that fact. Neither he nor I had ever seen anything like this. I am always grateful and respectful to the workers and officials and the people that know me, know that.

I took my car back to my paddock spot and did not run my last session. Later on, I went to talk to Richard McCloy to talk to him personally. He’d heard bits and pieces of the radio communication throughout the day. Richard has known me for many, many years. We talked for a minute and he said that “He didn’t realize that was me they were talking about.” And, “How can a T1 car bust the sound level.” He and his wife were in the medical shed while we were talking and as far as I’m concerned, things are square between him and me. He had not heard both sides of the issue and was amazed at all this.

During the day, there might have been 50-75 total cars testing and I’d guess that at least 20-25 cars were black flagged (after one reading over) and told to park their car.

When Butch Kummer arrived to the track, he brought some curved galvanized piping that we attached to my exhaust tips to turn the sound away from the meter (ala the GT1 theory). This seemed to work a little bit.

The rest of the weekend went about the same way. There was confusion about how many times you could read over 103 before being black flagged, there were Spec Miatas being registered at a 100 dbs, while some Formula cars, D and C sports racers weren’t flagged at all despite their obvious ear splitting volume to everyone at track side. Most run their exhaust to the right side of the car away from the sound meter.

At one point, I heard (on my scanner) Toni Creighton talking about the sound levels and exactly what car number it was that had gone over the limit. Larry apparently could not tell the difference between a “68” and a “69” and reported the wrong car over and over. Those sound readings were apparently thrown out and their times were allowed to stand. I don’t know if this happened with other groups or not.

Many cars throughout the next two days were noted as running much, much higher dbs than anywhere else this year. One of the BP Corvettes actually changed their whole exhaust and put on mufflers and were still setting 104+ dbs. During the Sunday morning race, I heard them radio in and said I’d registered a 103.8 for my car, so I began running down the right side of the straight to get away from the sound meter. That was the only reading on me that we noted. The #23 BP Corvette was the only BP car in the field, so she just limped around the track getting her points and ensuring she didn’t come close to the sound levels.

I don’t think that running multiple sound meters on BOTH THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE OF THE TRACK is necessarily the answer, but accusing someone of “sound avoidance” and annotating that on a sound chart is simply uncalled for. That is an official SCCA document and regulated by the GCR. The GCR says nothing about “sound avoidance.” It also doesn’t say anything about using the whole race track or lifting off the throttle. Their actions were wrong.

I talked to many racers over those three days who just couldn’t believe all of this. Also in the attachment is a letter that Guy Marvin (who drives an EP Nissan and had sound issues) wrote explaining his side of this weekend too. You will notice one thing in particular about his comments – the fact that the track workers were very disrespectful to us and he used the terms “condescending,” “off-handed” and “unprofessional.” I’m sure that if you poll the drivers who were there this weekend, many of them will tell you the same exact thing.

I guarantee you that not a single racer came down to Savannah this weekend saying to themselves: “I think I’ll go down to Georgia and blow some ear drums out, **** off the sound guys, give the workers and officials a hard time and have a miserable weekend. We all go the track expecting to have a good time and to see our friends – both racers and workers alike. I have many friends in both arenas, and this was not how I wanted to spend my time.

Finally, I hold no ill will toward Richard McCloy or his staff at the track. However, Larry Buhl, Larry K., Darrell Mallard and John Horn should be officially reprimanded for their actions. And I personally would like an apology from each of them. Since this is an SCCA owned track, they represent the SCCA even at a test day and should act like ladies and gentlemen when the racers have a legitimate concern. If there are isolated incidences or infractions of some type, then they must deal with them on an individual basis; but when SO MANY COMPETITORS ARE HAVING THE SAME ISSUE, then that must be addressed differently and taken into consideration. Those 4 named officials simply did not do that.

Please contact me if you need any more information on this subject or would like to see the actual documents that I’ve scanned in.

Thank you for your time and attention!

Chris W. Ingle
Lieutenant Colonel Chris W. Ingle
United States Army
(w) 910.432.5983 christopher.ingle@us.army.mil
(h) 910.875.0334 wtknght1@aol.com

wtknght1

It hasn't!

AU N EGL

Damn Chris Sorry to here about this BS.

Sounds ( pun inteded ) that these so called officials were looking for hand outs, i.e. C notes to make the problem go away.

Is sound avoidance in the rule book??


and ppl wonder why NASA is gowing in populatity??

Falcon

Holy Crap!

You're a far more patient person than I would have been, Chris. Is this indicative of SCCA procedures?

wtknght1

Hell no.

You are correct about the last statement!

wtknght1

No. The main irritation was on Friday. I'm not sure what was wrong with those guys that day, but they treated a bunch of fun-loving racers very, very poorly...rudely even.

Once the REAL SCCA crew got in, it was better, but that guy Larry Buhl (the officially named sound ****), was still running sound. It was just a horrible, horrible weekend all the way around. In fact, even the weekend I hit the wall at Daytona (back in 2002) was more fun and rewarding.

rasrboy

Sorry to hear about all the down there Chris. Makes me wonder if I should even bother cutting the cats off yet.

Aaron Quine
Kumho Tire (Motorsports Division)
#21 SCCA 03 Z06 T1 Corvette

ghoffman

It isn't called Suck-a racing for nothing. These people probably have no real lives, so they get off on being a Boss for the day.

sleeper02Z06

Gary,

Any idea how tough sound will be at NHIS? I've heard it can be hard to beat, some have said don't worry. Hopefully other tracks in NEDiv won't be an issue, I wasn't even close at CMP or HPT ( cats blew out during one qual ).

Joe

ghoffman

For T1 it should not be too hard to pass sound. The GT1 cars usually have a problem with the right side exaust since most of the time the sound is inside of turn 10 (the RH going back on to the NASCAR section), just when you need to really get on the gas. Chris' issue with going wider, and lifting is downright absurd on the part of the "tech" idiots. I would like someone to show me where in any section of the giant GCR where it says that lifting and using the full width of the track is not acceptable. If they don't like that, then they should have the sound meter clandestine and/or have several located in different parts of the track.

AJRocketeer

Someone is going to have a hard time finding it, as well, it doesn't exist.

I though sound at NHIS was off to the right at the top of the hill somewhere around that tree house.