hippie68

I have signed up for a couple of HPDEs and Autocrosses and now I'm having second thoughts about using my C6. I don't think I need to worry too much about the Autocross, but is there a decent possibility of damaging my car at an HPDE? I was considering buying an older cheaper car for around $10K to race with. Does this make sense?

John Shiels

I have been to many events since 99 and seen very few accidents for all the cars running. Then if you look at the ones that were totally self inflicted it is rare that something will happen if you use your head. All that said anything can happen just like driving down the road. Check you policy if HPDE are not covered.

AU N EGL

Have you read Corbra4B's thread about If you new about and Modifications??
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1643032

davidfarmer

we had a car hit the wall at VIR in hdpe a few weeks ago...not my student of course

elh0102

Obviously, this is an individual decision that has to be based on several factors. I've been doing DE events for five years, and I guess I see an average of two street cars seriously damaged per school. These incidents almost always fall into one of two categories. Some result from basic driver error; i.e., pushing too hard on cold tires or wet track, not watching corner workers, etc. And some result from folks who try to make DE a racing event, something it cannot ever become. If your primary interest is properly structured HPDE events, and your insurance covers such use, then I consider the risk acceptable.

Cobra4B

Damn... musta really farked up... hard to hit something solid at VIR
I don't know of any company that hasn't gotten hip to the DE world and excluded all activity on a track weather timed or not.

Normally I see 1 or 2 wreckes per event... and they're for the above reasons (cold/wet/inexperience, or someone trying to make it a race).

Run a few events in your C6 in stockish form... you'll get hooked... then stop modding the C6 and get a real track car to beat on.

elh0102

Depends on your home state. In NC, the allowed exclusions, so far, remain conservatively limited by the NC Insurance Commission, and DE activity remains fully covered. The practical limitation is availability, as your company will probably cancel your policy after settlement of a DE related claim. I've decided I will allow myself one such claim (hopefully not), and then either go to a cheaper track car, or hang it up. I fully believe it's just a matter of time until all such activity is excluded.

Cobra4B

^ Interesting... my car is insured in NC... I know Allstate specifically banned all DE events as has GEICO... however is the NC Insurance Comission holding them from doing that? When I used to work for GEICO I did a large report about the regulatory board in NC and how the screw stuff up

elh0102

I'm over my head now. The information I posted was from my agent. I've had policies with two companies through the same independent agent. After carefully reading the policy, we found no exclusion language that would disallow a DE claim. He checked with the company underwriting department, and coverage was confirmed. I have an excess umbrella liabililty policy, and the situation is not quite as clean in it. The exclusions include "competitive" activity. I think I would be covered in the event of a third-party claim arising from an instructional DE incident, but I hope to never test it! Regarding Geico and Allstate, my guess, they have made a broadly issued announcement regarding excluding anything on race track. But, the actual wording in the policies issued in the states in which they do business would prevail. From their perspective, if they can discourage business from folks who participate in an unattractive activity, they have dodged the bullet. They are managing for the ultimate exclusion, avoid the risk.

Falcon

When I tracked my street Z06, it was always with a degree of trepidation that increased as I did more and more HPDE’s and Time Trials.

At first as we learn to go fast, and are under the control of an instructor, the likelihood of a crash isn’t too high. As time passes and experience picks up the chances increase to where it’s only a matter of time. During this period for me, I viewed my insurance as a weapon to protect me in the case of personal injury to someone else and not for the coverage of my car. I don’t think I would have submitted a claim for damage to my car. I viewed the protection offered by insurance as my defense fund in case of a lawsuit.

After reviewing my situation, I decided I needed to go to a full race car, both for the protection it offered me with a cage and such, but also to get me out of the exposure I had in HPDE’s. It was either that for me or, as Ed said in his post, it was time to hang it up.

ZBRA

I did two lapping events in my C5. During the second one, it started raining. That day I decided to buy a cheap C4 to build a dedicated track car out of.

ImaRoadDog

I tracked my C5 at HPDE's for three years, with this last year doing time trials also. I still want to do more and go a little faster. Decided it was time to retire the C5 from the track and get a dedicated track car. Spent a little over 7K for a Mustang LX with a full roll cage and completely gutted. If I should do something stupid and crash this thing, I can go to the junk yard and get another fender, or two, or three. Also, the car is safer in the event of a crash with the roll bars. I would suggest you decide how far you want to go with HPDE's and if it advances beyond that consider getting a dedicated track car.

95jersey

If these are you first events, just go. Don't buy some other car if you are not sure you will continue.

And to be honest, you will never be happy with the performance of a $10k car, and after you spend much $$$ to keep it running/add parts, you could have bought another new vette.

AU N EGL

I have Allstate. I was covered for my incident, and my polices only exculdes timed events.

I read that thing over and over and over.

Cobra4B

If I remember correctly... the adjusters selective questioning is what allowed that "incident" to be covered

AU N EGL

I answered each QUESTION truthfully.

More like selective answers. But I did tell the truth to each of the questions asked. I did not volunteer anything more.

Cobra4B

It was well played indeed.

Tintin

I have never even come close to wrecking a car at an HPDE in all the 15 years I have instructed at them. That being said ,I have seen many heartwarming and wonderful wrecks made by students that made the whole thing worth doing. I once had a student wreck 3 times in one lap of Sears Point, just fantastic stuff EVERY student that wrecked whether mine or someone else's had an identical characteristic.
Poor listening skills and a giant ego.
If you pay attention and don't take it personally if someone is quicker than you then you will not wreck your car. If you get excited that someone just passed you in a Subaru rally clone you are going to crash really hard What always shocks me in these discussions is that there is never any conversation about being injured or killed whilst acting the jester on the track. I have seen lots of people leave the track in ambulances over the last few decades, sometimes in a bad way - no siren... but ego prevents that possibility from the HPDE drivers mind. If you drove your car into a guardrail on a freeway off ramp at say 85 mph, think you might break a nail? Yet I see lots of students whirl their cars at 100+ and when they don't hit anything they don't think it is a big deal...

If you listen and approach the HPDE as a learning experience and as the first step to track driving you have the best and safest car made in America -you will be fine. If you approach the HPDE as the pinnacle of a lifetime of being a really swell driver and boy these cars are unbeatable, you will be taking a taxi home or worse (see above). If you are in California where I used to live, you will find that your insurance will absolutely not cover the car under any circumstances if it is on a race track. Ask your agent before you go, they are not stupid and after all if you wreck a Corvette in Buttonwillow, Monterey or Sonoma they will figure it out.

Go ,Listen, Enjoy it is really fun. Honest.

az55

Go to the track.

Here in Arizona, I feel much more endangered on the freeways and in intersections than on the track. The fact that I'm covered is of little comfort. Some examples:

1. Corvette driver is forced off the road into a concrete abuttment at 75+ by an SUV driver who was putting on make up and suddenly realized she was going to miss her off ramp. Dead Corvette driver was covered.

2. Corvette driver is T-boned by a "lifted" pick-up at an intersection. The bumper was at the Corvette driver's window level. He was killed on impact. Insurance was of little comfort to his family.

When I go to the track, it is a controlled environment with safety as the foremost concern of the organizers. And everyone is going in the same direction(most of the time) . I avoid the ego freaks(they are easy to spot) and I learn from instructors. The skills you will learn and hone over time may save your life one day out there where the real danger lies. On PUBLIC ROADS!

Oh, I forgot one thing. It's the most fun you can have with your clothes on.

Cheers from Arizona.

Tintin

It is a total zoo on the roads here, no question. Lots of tourists...

Really, a C6 is a wonderful track car, use it and enjoy!