It's official - GM V12 to go into production!
03-21-2007, 03:59 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,606
Received 239 Likes
on
167 Posts
It's official - GM V12 to go into production!
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/21/l...llac-flagship/
It's official. It's been confirmed: Cadillac is preparing a new V12 flagship. That's straight from the mouth of our favorite man in the business, Bob Lutz. On a recent trip across the pond, GM's venerated product guru confirmed in an interview to the British car magazine AutoWeek that they are indeed working on a twelve-cylinder engine, slated to power a new range-topping, import-beating "Cadillac of Cadillacs," a super-luxury-sedan to rival the likes of the Mercedes S-Class and Lexus LS in the grandest of American style.
The new powerplant is being fabricated from two of GM's 3.6-liter 60-degree V6 engines mounted on a common crankshaft. Far from relying solely on cylinder count, sources speculate the engine will also benefit from such features as direct injection and cylinder deactivation, resulting in a 7.2-liter V12 with somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 horsepower and 540 lb-ft of torque.
And just where is GM testing such a behemoth of an engine? In Australia, of course! As has become de rigeur for American automakers of late, GM is relying on its Australian subsidiary to run the development work on the new flagship engine. Holden is reported to have already begun testing mules, based on a Commodore with a stretched-out engine bay, at its Lang Lang test center near Melbourne. Although the Zeta-based Commodore, (a.k.a. the upcoming Pontiac G8) is being used strictly as a test bed for the time being, it could end up providing the underpinnings for the Cadillac megasedan when the time comes.
Lutz has been pushing for a top-tier Cadillac for years now, and the impetus for its development has apparently come from the feedback received by the Cadillac Sixteen showcar debuted back in 2003. Although the showcase V16 engine was ruled out, apparently the V12 has gotten the green light for development. Shoot for the stars and land on the moon, eh Bob?
It's official. It's been confirmed: Cadillac is preparing a new V12 flagship. That's straight from the mouth of our favorite man in the business, Bob Lutz. On a recent trip across the pond, GM's venerated product guru confirmed in an interview to the British car magazine AutoWeek that they are indeed working on a twelve-cylinder engine, slated to power a new range-topping, import-beating "Cadillac of Cadillacs," a super-luxury-sedan to rival the likes of the Mercedes S-Class and Lexus LS in the grandest of American style.
The new powerplant is being fabricated from two of GM's 3.6-liter 60-degree V6 engines mounted on a common crankshaft. Far from relying solely on cylinder count, sources speculate the engine will also benefit from such features as direct injection and cylinder deactivation, resulting in a 7.2-liter V12 with somewhere in the neighborhood of 600 horsepower and 540 lb-ft of torque.
And just where is GM testing such a behemoth of an engine? In Australia, of course! As has become de rigeur for American automakers of late, GM is relying on its Australian subsidiary to run the development work on the new flagship engine. Holden is reported to have already begun testing mules, based on a Commodore with a stretched-out engine bay, at its Lang Lang test center near Melbourne. Although the Zeta-based Commodore, (a.k.a. the upcoming Pontiac G8) is being used strictly as a test bed for the time being, it could end up providing the underpinnings for the Cadillac megasedan when the time comes.
Lutz has been pushing for a top-tier Cadillac for years now, and the impetus for its development has apparently come from the feedback received by the Cadillac Sixteen showcar debuted back in 2003. Although the showcase V16 engine was ruled out, apparently the V12 has gotten the green light for development. Shoot for the stars and land on the moon, eh Bob?
03-21-2007, 04:07 PM
#2
Team Owner
Cien was a great car too bad it died. But if they make money I think it will be revived.
To bad Lutz is near the end of his career. He needs to leave someone in his place with great ideas.
To bad Lutz is near the end of his career. He needs to leave someone in his place with great ideas.
Last edited by John Shiels; 03-21-2007 at 04:11 PM.
03-21-2007, 04:10 PM
#4
Former Vendor
The 60 degree motors of yesterday sucked and one of the reasons why they don't sell as many cars anymore. Everyone that owned one including myself hated them!!!
Randy
Randy
03-21-2007, 04:13 PM
#6
Team Owner
03-21-2007, 05:39 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Now that's cool. Bob has some of the greatest ideas. He's the best thing to hit GM in a long time. Too bad it's not a 90 deg. V. A 60 is a bit lame but a 72 deg. would be the bomb.
03-21-2007, 06:26 PM
#9
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,606
Received 239 Likes
on
167 Posts
What?
a 60 degree V12 is one of the most perfectly balanced engines.
a 90 degree V12 isn't
72??? where did that # come from????
a 60 degree V12 is one of the most perfectly balanced engines.
a 90 degree V12 isn't
72??? where did that # come from????
03-21-2007, 08:29 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
03-21-2007, 10:28 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Ok, you can completely ignore my last two sentences. I really don't know what I was thinking. Perhaps I had V10s on my brain. Sorry for the confusion.
It really is about time that Caddy gets in the game and truly competes with the other luxury brands of the world. Hey, maybe they'll go racing at Le Mans! Then again, that didn't turn out so well last time.
It really is about time that Caddy gets in the game and truly competes with the other luxury brands of the world. Hey, maybe they'll go racing at Le Mans! Then again, that didn't turn out so well last time.
03-21-2007, 10:33 PM
#12
Melting Slicks
No, it is not just the reduced time between firing pulses, there are lots of engine configurations that can get an "even" firing order, and you could do it several different ways with 12 cylinders. What Brian is referring to is that in some engines (90 degree V8's and 60 degree V12's for instance) you can get both primary and secondary balance. That means that the dynamic forces are offset, so that what is going up balances what is going down (so to speak, the acceleration is actually in the direction of the cylinder), and the natural imbalance that is caused by the connecting rod effect (not quite perfect sinusodial motion) gets cancelled out, and the result is a very smooth engine.
03-22-2007, 10:10 AM
#14
Team Owner
03-23-2007, 09:20 AM
#15
V12 are fine and danddy but i think the power figure is low!
still could be interesting in a vette. might kill the weight balance though!
thanks Chris.
03-23-2007, 01:59 PM
#16
Team Owner
Vette will never see it due to length and weight. 600 in Blue Devil is all they need. Maybe C7 mid engine but that is a real stretch. 12 cylinder Cien I hope.
03-24-2007, 10:25 PM
#18
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2004
Location: Southeastern Pennsylvania
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
03-25-2007, 08:42 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2003
Location: Bedford Tx
Posts: 937
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Question about the crank.
I guess, a normal 60 deg V-12 would have
a I-6 style crank, with two con rods per throw.
a nowadays v-6 has what?
what about this new V-12?
I guess, a normal 60 deg V-12 would have
a I-6 style crank, with two con rods per throw.
a nowadays v-6 has what?
what about this new V-12?
03-25-2007, 01:09 PM
#20
Team Owner