gfacter

I got a HPDE alignment today. It's just a baseline for me to start

Please give me your opinion, this is my first vette and I have nothing really to go by,

- 1.7 camber front
.002 toe in per side front
7.1 caster each side

- 1.2 camber rear
Zero rear toe

The tech couldnt get more front caster without loosing camber.

As it is the steering feels super slow, I thought less caster sped up steering?

I will be checking tire temps to see if I need more or less camber and will make changes with another alignment

Is Zero rear toe going to make the car unstable? If need be can I dial some in at the track? how much adjustment is needed?

Thanks,

George

mountainbiker2

Your specs look good to me. Guys that autocross set the rear toe at 0" to 1/2" total toe in. I would experiment between 0" and 1/4" total toe in for HPDE events. Everyone will have a opinion, but you will have to make the final decision.

Steve

davidfarmer

tow out in the front, just a touch, will help turn in. See my article on "why toe out" to explain why.

Otherwise, looks great. Tire temps are tough for autocrossing, as they tires rarely get hot enough to stabilize. I can tell you that more camber will be better, but you are reaching the edge of a streetable alignment.

Castor will change the steering effort, not necessarly the rate of turn. Less castor will give a lighter feel. Some toe out, as above, will add some crispness to turn-in.

If you need to add some rear toe, go up to around 1/4" max total.

gfacter

Thanks, this is a track day alignment, no autocross.

I will see how stable the car is then perhaps dial in some rear toe, then toe out the front.

Turn in just feels super slow for me, my last track car a Honda S2000 would change direction super quickly, I need to adjust to that as a driver.

C6400hp

If you want better turn in and feel you should be at .05 toe OUT per side in front. I like more caster 7.75 and gave up the camber to get it. I think if you go with something like -1.4 camber and .05 toe OUT per side with 7.75 caster you will be much happier. I used to drive an S2000 as well.

gkmccready

Don't you find that much caster makes the steering feel heavy/slow? When I get my Hardbar alignment parts I was planning on more static camber, less caster...

C6400hp

Yes and no. It does make the steering heavier but, I like that because the factory steering tuning is way,way to light for me. With the toe out settings I have in front it has very quick/solid turn in. Any more static neg camber for me and the roads around here send you flying off into a culvert. I have a very minor bit of outside shoulder wear on the RA1 I use on track but I think anyone with less than -2 will have that. I guess "steering feel" is really a personal thing. At the first alignment this year I had it aligned with more static camber -1.6 and less caster 7.25 IIRC. I absolutely hated the way the car felt, steering was light and turn in had no feel. I am very happy with the way it is now.

Front per side

-1.35 camber
7.9 caster
.05 toe out

rear per side

-1 camber
.04 toe in

ghoffman

The tools are done, just being anodized. I can ship them next week. I changed it a little this time with slots instead of holes for the lug nuts so it can work on any 5 lug car (Fords, BMW, P-Cars etc). Please call me Glen, I need your address, cc info, etc.
Thanks!
Gary Hoffman
Hardbarusa.com
603-488-5573
603-682-8073 cell

gfacter

Thanks for the tips everyone,

The car was pretty good after I turned off all the TC and Active handling, and sorted out the tire pressures. I forgot the temp probe.

I am going to toe out the front a wee bit as turn in was slow, the rear of the car was very stable even at 1.3G's according to my data logger.

My biggest problem was a lack of a race seat.

RichieRichZ06

I would HIGHLY reccommend reducing the amount of castor. I think you have the same feeling for the slow "turn in" that I did before doing the allignment. I went from 7.0 to 4.5 and it helped turn in A LOT. I run -1.7 in the front with 1mm of toe out and 4.5 castor. The rear is -1.0 with zero toe. It was like driving a new car after doing this. It picked up some serious time at the road course.
RICH

gfacter

How does the car feel at speed with that little castor?

C6400hp

Are you sure you understand how alignment works? With that little caster you are losing a ton of camber anytime you turn the wheel. With that little caster you are 3 full degrees off of the recommended minimum. How much time? On what course? With what tires?

TommyBoy72

Thats a design issue that is tough to overcome. The S2000 has a shorter wheelbase and a quicker ratio steering rack.

gfacter

I am getting over it quickly, I just give it more gas now

I came up on a friend a few times in his race prepped S2000 at VIR last weekend, it was ugly

RichieRichZ06

It works well from the drivers seat of my car. It gave me a little over a full second a lap at ThunderHill on V710's with all else being the same. Before the allignment the tires would rub off the outside edge and hardly touch the inside. After the allignment, the tires wear evenly, without blistering anywhere and the car felt much happier. The car is slightly "twitchy" at high speeds (140+), but other then that it is great.

I do need to edit the original post I had though: I checked the printout again on the car and it is 5.5* of caster. We had talked about 4.5, but it was set at 5.5 during the allignment. That is 1.5 less then it was from the factory.

TommyBoy72

5.5 isn't bad. usually the only reason you reduce caster to low levels is for manual steering racks to reduce effort. And thats usually for autox. Typically you just max the caster AFTER you set the desired camber.


Gary, how much for that alignment tool? I'm VERY interested.

0Randy@DRM

Well I read this post today, I am at a complete loss.

You guys should watch a chassis dyno run with rubber bushings sometime. You can watch the wheel toe out when it's loaded. What do you think it does on the track? It toes out!!! That is one more reason not to run 0 rear-toe.

The amount of Camber depends on the track and most important the tires used.

Caster is about 6-8 degrees, yes when you change camber it changes the castor.

Toe in or toe out in the front is a debate that will go on forever. When I'm like 70 years old, people will still be talking about which is better. We run toe-in with 99.9 percent of the cars.

Randy

rustyguns

WHAT ALIGNMENT WOULD YOU RUN ON AN ASPHALT ROAD COARSE AT 90 DEGREES AIR TEMP WITH A ZO6 WITH HOOSIER R6?

WOULD IT CHANGE MUCH FOR NITTO NT01 OR MICHELIN SPORT CUPS?

gfacter

I was a little bit concerned about stability with zero rear toe, but even over 140 (GPS speed) the car was stable. I used to race motor bikes so stability is a state of mind.

The next alignment I will toe in the rear a wee bit for sure.

My bushings only have 1500 miles on them so perhaps they will get all sloppy after a while

0Randy@DRM

2.5 to 2.75 camber in the front on the heavy loaded side. A tick of toe-in. About 7 degrees of castor
out back is a hard thing to do on the internet. It is a real tricky thing to setup for any roadrace car. I would start at about 1.25 and see wear your temps and how fast you are coming out of the corners. A strong 1/8 inch toe in at least.
Yes it would change running those other tires, start by droping some of the camber first.
Pressures change everything so keep that in mind also.

At 140 going down the straight there is little concern on lap times. How does it feel in the corners? Are you able to get on the gas quicker then the guy next to you?