our wheel bearing cages PLASTIC?!?!?
04-08-2007, 07:19 PM
#1
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our wheel bearing cages PLASTIC?!?!?
As you know, I'm working on a non-stock replacement for our bearings.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1552590
But a lot of Corvette drivers have to run the stock unit. So, I decided to find out why the stock wheel bearing are so bad. Especially when taking a car to the track. I took one apart, and look what I found.
Single lip seals, which melt at track temperatures, and can't hold the pressure of the gas created when the grease heats up. The failure lets the gas pressure out, but more importantly they fail again when they cool down letting not just gas in but contaminants, and PLASTIC wheel bearing cages?!?!? Of course as soon as they melt the ball bearings grind against each other, and the bearing is toast.
Well that's the bad news, the good news is that the seals are easy enough to get, but you destroy the plastic cage in the process of taking it apart.
So, if I can find a replacement bearing that fits, preferably with a steel cage. We can turn them into something that's rebuildable. Fortunately I've got a friend who's been a race engineer for years, has plenty of sources, and has gone through this already with BMW cassette bearings. ( same design style )
If owners replace their seals after every event, which we should be doing but can't currently. These bearings, despite being placed to close together, should last a long time.
BTW Way cheaper than a new one, or my heavy duty design. I'll save that for people who can afford the custom pieces.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1552590
But a lot of Corvette drivers have to run the stock unit. So, I decided to find out why the stock wheel bearing are so bad. Especially when taking a car to the track. I took one apart, and look what I found.
Single lip seals, which melt at track temperatures, and can't hold the pressure of the gas created when the grease heats up. The failure lets the gas pressure out, but more importantly they fail again when they cool down letting not just gas in but contaminants, and PLASTIC wheel bearing cages?!?!? Of course as soon as they melt the ball bearings grind against each other, and the bearing is toast.
Well that's the bad news, the good news is that the seals are easy enough to get, but you destroy the plastic cage in the process of taking it apart.
So, if I can find a replacement bearing that fits, preferably with a steel cage. We can turn them into something that's rebuildable. Fortunately I've got a friend who's been a race engineer for years, has plenty of sources, and has gone through this already with BMW cassette bearings. ( same design style )
If owners replace their seals after every event, which we should be doing but can't currently. These bearings, despite being placed to close together, should last a long time.
BTW Way cheaper than a new one, or my heavy duty design. I'll save that for people who can afford the custom pieces.
04-08-2007, 11:48 PM
#3
Le Mans Master
Fascinating. On the one hand I guess this is why they can sell this level of performance for the price, but the reality is its a chimera when they market the cars as "racing cars" - they're just not built to take it. But I digress - please keep us apprised of your results !!
04-09-2007, 02:02 AM
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Fascinating. On the one hand I guess this is why they can sell this level of performance for the price, but the reality is its a chimera when they market the cars as "racing cars" - they're just not built to take it. But I digress - please keep us apprised of your results !!
Bill
04-09-2007, 08:31 AM
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I'm sure it's a higher temp plastic, and that they change them out after every event.
The BWM's have the steel ones, but the bearings still wear out due to the seals getting cooked.
The BWM's have the steel ones, but the bearings still wear out due to the seals getting cooked.
04-09-2007, 10:17 AM
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If you can keep them clean and lubed, they will last a very long time. A good synthetic grease and new seals periodically should be winner, better than new for a fraction of the price.
04-09-2007, 10:32 AM
#8
Race Director
That would be sweet, thanks for checking this out!
04-09-2007, 02:55 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Silly question Brian. How exactly did you get it apart?
Btw, on my C5, mine had no slop or play in it. But when you drove the car you would swear the ring/pinion was somehow screwed up. It made that whining noise through the rear end. Turned out it was drivers side rear wheel bearing. I'd be curious what is broken inside.
Btw, on my C5, mine had no slop or play in it. But when you drove the car you would swear the ring/pinion was somehow screwed up. It made that whining noise through the rear end. Turned out it was drivers side rear wheel bearing. I'd be curious what is broken inside.
04-09-2007, 03:15 PM
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On the C4's there's a press fit ring that you need to get in underneath and pop off. Then there's a snap ring, after that it gets fun. You need to rig something to pull the case from the hub. In my case, longer bolts through the mounts.
This is part where the plastic ball cages are ripped apart in the process, and the reason we need to find another source for bearings if you want to be able to regrease them w/o changing the bearings every time. The one in the above picture is brand new
But even if you have replace the bearings every time, it's still way cheaper than a new one.
To get the inner race off the hub, you need a special puller, and to get the outer race off the case, well, we're working on a tool for that. But if all you want to do is take a look inside, just go through the 1st two steps.
This is part where the plastic ball cages are ripped apart in the process, and the reason we need to find another source for bearings if you want to be able to regrease them w/o changing the bearings every time. The one in the above picture is brand new
But even if you have replace the bearings every time, it's still way cheaper than a new one.To get the inner race off the hub, you need a special puller, and to get the outer race off the case, well, we're working on a tool for that. But if all you want to do is take a look inside, just go through the 1st two steps.
04-12-2007, 12:00 AM
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Update:
My friend got the outer race out of the case.
Of course the manufacturer didn't bother to put number on it.
So, measurements need to be taken and phone calls made.
My friend got the outer race out of the case.
Of course the manufacturer didn't bother to put number on it.
So, measurements need to be taken and phone calls made.
07-18-2007, 10:52 AM
#14
Race Director
07-18-2007, 04:19 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
Hey Brian, I know you bought some splindle snouts from Howe and that took you in the direction of the forged spindle. Did you see these axle pins in Howe's catalog?
The middle one is steel and has an 8 bolt flange. All that would be required would be a wheel flange made to bolt to the pin. They come on Wide 5 and Howe 5x5 bearing dimensions. Did you determine that those bearings would fit in the front upright? Anyway, since the topic came up again I happened to be looking at their catalog, I saw them. Here's the link to the page.
The middle one is steel and has an 8 bolt flange. All that would be required would be a wheel flange made to bolt to the pin. They come on Wide 5 and Howe 5x5 bearing dimensions. Did you determine that those bearings would fit in the front upright? Anyway, since the topic came up again I happened to be looking at their catalog, I saw them. Here's the link to the page.
07-19-2007, 12:24 PM
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UPDATE:
He's located one bearing, it's actually the C5R/C6R bearing.
You really don't want to know what it costs!
He brought up yet another interesting solution.
Fabricate an upright, that way you can run the entire NASCAR style hub. It would never pass for stock, but if your not conserned about that. Then you'd have a setup that you could run at 200mph for 24hrs if you wanted too, and be cheap to maintain as well.
He's located one bearing, it's actually the C5R/C6R bearing.
You really don't want to know what it costs!
He brought up yet another interesting solution.
Fabricate an upright, that way you can run the entire NASCAR style hub. It would never pass for stock, but if your not conserned about that. Then you'd have a setup that you could run at 200mph for 24hrs if you wanted too, and be cheap to maintain as well.