varkwso

I made it to the Turn One/Full Lock (T1/FL) track event at CMP last weekend to meet up with a few friends and run around the track a few times. The weather, and company, could not have been any better. I was very fortunate in getting Art as a student and we have already had a few events at CMP together. He came all the way down from Maryland for the event. The car count was the highest I have ever seen at one of the T1/FL events but the track density was still very, very low. The C6 contingent was very well represented with a new ZO6, several coupes and a convertible. But as always there was an eclectic selection of cars in the paddock. I saw several familiar faces over the weekend and quite a few new ones. I am always amazed by the number of "regulars" I see at events. It truly is an addiction. My student from my last T1/FL event was back in his 2007 Mustang GT with a new set of track tires and fresh brakes. He was looking great and was turning sub 2:00 minute laps with a great line. His dad was pretty amazed at how much the tires wore down after a mere two tanks of gas in one day - get that checkbook out dad - it has just begun. They did bring a spare set of rotors and pads this time to CMP so the checkbook is already seeing the trend.

Art was having trouble with a tire pressure sending unit all day. The left front went from sending the tire was "flat" to having 50 PSI on a regular basis. We learned the C6 would not allow you to go to the Comp mode with a bad sensor and when it says "flat" it makes the active handling (AH) really, really intrusive. Paddock attempts to reset with the proper tools were unsuccessful. At that point there were several options. Turn it all off (my personal preference at CMP all the time), park it in the paddock, leave AH on and drive hard (deal with the intrusiveness) or leave it on and work on being smooth. Art chose the latter based on his comfort level and preference. It was a good choice for him. It made him really concentrate on smooth inputs, keeping the car at constant G and smooth throttle modulation. As a matter of fact it made him faster when he "slowed" down - imagine that - and showed him how important the line is. He did so well that I arranged for him to be cleared solo. It made him the envy of his group. We also spent some time clearing up a check engine light (CEL) on the '07 ZO6. It appears the dry sump system is very sensitive to overfilling and will vent the excess oil into the intake. The sensors there do not care to be coated in oil by the way and show their displeasure with a CEL and rough running. Norbert Watts happened to have a Tech2 along (I really, really need one of those by the way) to reset and diagnose the problem. So between everybody in the paddock we had the tools and knowledge to get the car back on track. My contribution was locating a torx driver and siphoning oil from the dry sump system.

Since I no longer had a student, and none of my cars were "track ready" for the weekend, I went to dinner with a few of the guys and headed home Saturday night. It felt strange to be at an event without a car and to leave before it was over. Between hanging out with friends, riding in fast cars and getting One Lap pointers from Brian Smith it was still a great weekend. My next event is One Lap.....

davidfarmer

As much as I love the C6's I've driven, I HATE the electonic intrusion. If you put a race seat in; the steering column doesn't work, track tires; AH/TC goes crazy and slows the car down, and well, electronic door handles are just stupid!

I like the push button start, but overall, the electronics in the C5's were much easier to live with. I'd gladly give up a little convenience to have a car I can swap parts on without sending the electronics into a tizzy!

Z06cool

Wish I could have joined you Jeff. Too bad there's no tool handy for a broke block. ....except the worn out pocket book of course.

Good info about the nuances of the C6. My desire to upgrade in that path is diminishing.

See you at the track (whenever that is).

gonzalezfj

Don't let the naysayers discourage you from getting a C6Z. I LOVE mine.

I don't have a tilt/telescopic wheel, so I can put a race seat in mine without the problems others have experienced with the t/t wheel not working when the seat electrical circuits are not complete.

I don't use any electronic nannies at the track (the driver should be responsible for what the car does). Electronic intrusions are not welcomed in my car.

My car runs just fine without TPSs installed, although I have never tried to use the electronic nannies (see above).

Finally, I really like not having to fuss with keys in the ignition or fob buttons to open the doors. Walk up to the car with the fob in your pocket, open the door, get in and push the start button. I can't fathom why anybody would dislike that simplicity, but some people don't like vanilla ice cream. Go figure...

Get someone to take you out for a few laps in a C6Z. If you don't love the car, then don't upgrade. My C6Z is not even in the same area code as my C5Z in terms of performance.

davidfarmer

Don't get me wrong, ALL of the C6's are great cars mechanically. I LOVED my 05' C6, and I love the C6Z06 I'm driving now. And I totally agree about the keyless ignition.

However, as some have found, running track tires can be impossible on some of the cars without buying extra hardware. As I understand it, you simply can't shut the system down if it detects the lack of TPS's (some cars, not all). I shut everything down too, and can even live without the telescoping wheel, it just bugs me that the systems are so invasive.

And don't forget about dead batteries. Climbing in the hatchback headfirst, crawling down into the floorboard, to unlock your doors mechanically can't be pleasant ......

The C5/C6's are soooo similar mechanically, and other than the crappy brakes, are truly world class sports cars. Just as I think BMW ruined some of the best cars in the planet by implementing "IDRIVE", I think GM overstepped with some of the electronics.

varkwso

Decided on what you want to go back in with yet?

I have driven both and the C6Z is a true terror - I want one . But the AH, until you get it shut off, is a real nuisance on all that I have driven.

My point was the systems integration is not apparent since there is no -1 with the car...

Z06cool

Sure, I understand about the AH. I still want one too but am happy with the C5Z until recently But to answer your question -- going with a 402 stroker built by some local folks. Just makes my life easier with one shop to go through. Cheers

gonzalezfj

Dave, my man, no need to crawl. Why do people insist in thinking GM engineers are stupid? They are smart enough to realize the battery may go dead.

Owner's Manual, Page 2-10 describes two ways to open the doors when there is no electrical power in the vehicle:

a) Release handles on the car floor, between the seat and the door, both on the driver's and passenger sides.

b) Open the trunk with your key (lock cylinder is located over the license plate), then pull the driver's door release tab on the trunk carpet, driver's side of the car.

There is considerable confusion out there regarding the operation (or lack thereof) of the electronic nannies when the TPS signals are not present. There have been at least 3 different software versions loaded into C6Z06s at the factory. Which one you have depends on the manufacturing date of the vehicle. Early and late 2006 model builds have no issue running without TPS: Just hold the T/C button down for 5-6 seconds and turn everything off. My car was built in March 2006 and operates this way. Some cars built in late 2005 and early 2006 have issues when the TPS signals are not present. I have not found anyone that knows how to change the software version if you have the objectionable one in your car.

Hope this helps clarify some of the misinformation and urban myths doing the rounds in forums and folklore.

gonzalezfj

I agree 100%. AH =

Frank Gonzalez

davidfarmer

thanks, didn't realize there was a second door pull in the rear. Personally never needed it, but the 05' cars had a ton of dead batteries.

My 05' ran fine without TPS's, but haven't tried it in this car. You helped clear up one myth that I believed, but I still hate the electronic door handles and mandatory TPS's (even if it just a problem on some cars).

I'm an engineer, and I certainly don't think GM engineers are stupid. I worked with several of them in my WC days (GM Racing, not production). My point is that MY PREFERENCE is to NOT have the extra electronics. I'll feel especially strongly about that in a few years when the cars go out of warranty.

Kanmer

Funny you should mention that. Jaimie Creel (sp) had that exact problem happentoday at VIR. Just so happens he was parked next to Norbert. Those MAF sensors really do not like being coated with oil.

Looking forward to seeing you at VIR in july, Jeff. Glad to hear Art got to solo. Very cool. Was kinda curious if you were going to be at VIR with Audi this time.

Bob

gonzalezfj

Correct!!! Even worse as they age, years from now. Who will be able to have a vintage C6Z 25 years from now? How are you going to keep it running?

I don't worry about that because I'll be long gone, but I can see a huge problem over the horizon...

Mandatory TPSs are there courtesy of your uninformed local politician. They think giving Jane Housewife an alarm when a tire is low will prevent said housewife from killing herself (and maybe others) on the freeway. Good old Jane will finish her grocery shopping, hit the mall, get lunch with her hen party associates, get her hair done and then (if she remembers) she might mention to her husband, or significant other, that the car kept sounding some kind of alarm.

Frank Gonzalez

varkwso

Nope - could not make it to VIR - every once in a while I have to go to work to keep my family in the "lack of luxury"...

July is going to be a great time.

Take a look at all the "hacked" C4s to see what the majority of C5/C6s will look like in 25 years. Electrical demons will reign supreme....

robvuk

I'd hate to see what happens to BMW's in 30 years when they have an iDrive problem. On the other hand, how many pieces are needed to keep a C5 running? Is it just the EBCM and a PCM? Won't there be thousands in junkyards across the country? Just curious if anyone has given this any thought.

V8 Juice

According to the Owners Manual with my car, a TPM interpretation of a flat tire whether from actual flat or malfunctioning unit prevents the driver from turning off the AH system, if AH is off will turn it on, Comp Mode is not available and the OM says "The AH will feel different in aiding and maintaining directional control." Translated this means the system will be very intrusive, but is worth a novice driver such as me to experience for a run session as a way to become more sensitive to car control and smooth inputs. But all weekend is a PITA!

V8 Juice

"Art was having trouble with a tire pressure sending unit all day." Not only was the LF sensor defective, but the left rear sensor stem cracked inside the wheel at the base of the stem where it connects to the sending unit inside the tire and developed a progressive leak that had me on constant look out for air pumps between Kershaw and Dobson NC where I gave up and went to tire dealer next morning. This was first trip on non-run flat tires and had two tire problems! All the posts I read encouraging to convert to better track tire and "flats rarely happen" are overly optimistic! Rare is when it happens to the other guy; frequent is when it happens twice to you. Yes I had an inflator kit, but delayed using it if I could avoid gunking up the tire. The Atomic Orange Z06 also was leaking air all weekend, but TPM didn't interfere so long as air pressure was high enough. Suggestions were made and appear valid to use larger "O" rings for more integrity (better stronger fit).

davidfarmer

My one-year old Yukon XL just had $3500 worth of warranty repair work done. Transmission, mirrors, and seat problems.

I prefer track cars that are as simple as possible.

I totally understand about the TPS's. Cars with run-flats definitely need them, but you should be able to over-ride them.

Anybody running Windows VISTA yet? Microsoft has made it so that you have to manually ALLOW any internet-commanded actions execute. Basically it gets them off the hook, as if you allow a virus or spyware to run, it is YOUR fault. HOWEVER, you get SOOOOO many warnings that you soon just ignore them and click "yes" to everything.

Big brother always on our side

varkwso

but other than that - how was your weekend?

Kanmer

Is that kinda like "Other than that Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?"

varkwso

It is very frustrating to drive around a car's problem. But it does make you a better driver and Art did a masterful job handling the car he had on the track. I always want a perfect car on the track - but I almost never have it. Art did a great job deciding on how to handle his "system" problem and then executed his choice. But it is incredibly frustrating to have the DIC flashing stuff and dinging going on while concentrating on being smooth and precise. V8Juice must spend a lot of time multi-tasking.....