FasterIsBetter

I was up at Watkins Glen this Wednesday and Thursday with FCA. Had two absolutely glorious days with a lot of track time. Wednesday the car performed flawlessly. On Thursday, after three morning sessions, I went out after lunch and found that the brake pedal was getting soft, i.e., it was not grabbing at the top, I had to push the pedal fairly far down and put a lot of effort into braking hard at the bus stop and end of the front straight. Before going up, I had changed the front brake pads and bled the brakes with ATE Super Blue (which I usually use). I had not been able to get my usual HP Plus pads, so ran a set of HPS pads up front. I haven't checked, but suspect the pads are pretty heavily worn, though I had not hit the wear sensor, no squealling.

So, before this I was thinking about a brake upgrade. Now I'm giving it some serious consideration. I was thinking about the Wilwood SL6 calipers on stock rotors upgrade. Has anyone done this and does it improve brake performance over stock? What pads are you running?

Also, if I did the Wilwoods up front, is it possible to move the front calipers to the rear without having to change the master cylinder? If so, what pad combination would you run, front and rear, to get the proper balance? Any special bracketing needed to move the fronts to the rear?

BTW, I'm considering the Wilwood upgrade because I don't want to scrap two sets of wheels as I would have to do if I went with the big brake upgrade up front. Thanks for the assistance, gang.

davidfarmer

There is a good chance you put the HPS pads WAAAYYY above their designed heat range, and they crystalized. Pads, like tires, have an optimum temp range (street pads only good up to a few hundred degrees, full race pads up close to 2000 degrees), and if you go above the designed range, the components can literally brakedown. Once they cool, their performance has permanantly been altered.

If you move the front calipers to the rear, you will throw your bias way off and it will give a soft/long pedal. The piston area is about 60% larger than the OEM rears, and this must be compensated for.

You should stick to the OEM calipers in the rear, or get a proper sized rear caliper, if you want to use the OEM master.

btw, the rears only do less than 1/3 the total braking, and the OEM's hold up pretty good in the back. Any actual fade/boiling is usually in the front.

wtknght1

I love the Carbotechs on the stock calipers. It's certainly not the best possible set up, but for the money, it's pretty damn good.

Upgrading your brakes to Wilwoods, Stoptechs or whatever is an expensive venture at first, but probably cheaper in the long run. 99.9% of drivers out there can't/don't get the maximum out of the stock configuration, but once you can, it's a good idea to switch if you have the funds. Before you go nuts with new calipers and such though, I would definitely look into the myriad of different compounds available for the stock calipers. Run good fluid and the Carbotech XP series pads and you may change your mind about "upgrading."

MungoZ06

I would also suggest adding DRM Ducts and spindle mounts (LG, ECS, Phoenix)

Dr Chill

PM sent! I have Wilwoods in front and used to run NAPA disposables, but got tired of buying, cacking, and throwing out heavy iron saucers every few weeks. Now I have 2 piece rotors on all 4. Wilwoods may not be on par with AP or Alcons, but they are pretty good and pad changes are very easy. Chris Ingle loves Carbotechs XP12's, but they seem to wear quickly, whereas Wilwood H compound feels just as good to me but lasts twice as long. H is harder on rotors though.

My recommendation for fluid is Castrol SRF at $70 a liter. I just flushed my old SRF yesterday and filled up with new SRF, which was a PIA. It's well worth the extra few dollars for SRF in order to bleed and change fluid less frequently.

z060ntrack

I ran the Wilwoods up front and stock OEM's in the back and loved em, and is the least expensive of the upgrades. It is NOT a big brake package but a better caliper than the stock and makes changing rotors a breeze. I used the Wilwood J's then but just tried a set of the new H's on stock calipers and they work great Go with the Wilwoods and the fluids and ducts as recommended here plus SS lines and you'll be pleased for a long time.

davidfarmer

This is all good advice, but I fall back on my original advice. The HPS pad is NOT a track pad, and I think you simply cooked them. HP Plus is the bare minimum for light track use.