Jim_Harrison

The SCCA has posted the run/work order, and for the second year in a row BSP runs 1st heat. Those of you not familiar with the Solo Nats it is often pretty cool late in September and A compound tires don't work well when cold. You are not allowed to heat them so the 1st run is usually a throw away. Sooo they let in the 4 wheel drive rally cars to BSP with unlimited boost 2 years ago and most of the Corvettes stopped running. In 2005 BSP had 29 cars mostly Corvettes and M-3s. This year, 4 Vettes and 1 M3. So now with cold tires they have given the Rally cars another advantage....I'm not happy and I'd send this email to the SCCA but they wouldn't care.

Solofast

A long time ago it was pretty much a rotation, each year you changed from the first two days to the second two days and each year it seemed that you moved one heat later in the day. That way, over time it pretty much washed out and you couldn't complain.

But changing class quantities kind of screwed that up, so now there is no rhyme or reason to it....

I surely don't like the fact that we moved two weeks later in they year, that makes it almost impossible to get a decent week of weather. Before, you might find it hot or cool, but it generally wasn't really cold, like it can be now....

Seems like the SCCA sold their soul to the devil to get a "free" site, but now the piper has to be paid, and Heartland Park wants the solo and road race championships strung together, so, as is tyical, it is the solo folks that get screwed.

Solo events have been a huge money maker for the SCCA, but solo tends to be the red headed stepchild of the club....

On the subject of rally cars in BSP, don't even get started on that one..

The SEB first put them in ESP, where the dominated, then they went to BSP, where the dominated, and now there is talk about them going to ASP, where they will likely dominate... The problem is that rally cars are totally different types of cars than just about any other car, and they respond totally differently to the allowances in SP classes. Now that they have unlimited boost, the amount of power, and the ability to put it down with 4 wheel drive, makes them very fast. They have more power and better off corner traction than a C6Z in similar SP trim...

This is simply another example of the arrogance of the SEB. They think they know better than anybody else, but they have pretty much wasted BSP, and even after they move the Rally cars to ASP it will take years for the class to recover. BSP used to have 30+ cars in it, the car count went from 34 in 2004, 29 in 2005 to 25 in 2006 and now 22 this year, only 5 of which are Corvettes. The count of corvettes in the class pretty much parallels the lower car count, so the loss of car in the class is essentially the loss of Corvettes, and the rally cars replaced the bimmers...

Jim_Harrison

Like many of the other BSP Vette owner/drivers I could just give up or buy another car, but I've spent a lot of money and time setting up my old 72 Vette. It is now one of the fastest C-3 solo cars in the country and I like driving it. I guess the only solace is, if it doesn't rain (which brings out a whole other bag of worms) I'll beat some of the Rally guys.

AUTO_X_AL

This is the crap that keeps some of the newer people,like me,away from nationals. I am still trying to get this logic. Let's put the group with high HP rear drive out on the dusty green lot. BTW lets stick those awd cars in with and give them unlimited boost. Is it me or is the SCCA the biggest congragation of fu**ing morons in the US?? I'll happily keep my money and run elsewhere.

I feel your pain Jim. I would love to make the trip and run if it were not for the rally ricers.

RAFTRACER

If this was still on the concrete @ Forbes Field, 1st heat would not matter ........and the AWD rally cars would pay.....BIG..

Good luck all ....I will not be there. Driving 700 miles to make a grand total of 6 minutes of drive time on a slick, no grip surface does not excite me..

Jim_Harrison

Gee Danny and I was going to see if you wanted to be MY tire warmer. If not your Das is welcome.

XPC5R

Usually the run order is purely a worker or class size shuffle as the first priority. Still a raw deal for fast RWD cars. On the positive side, what are the odds of being 1st heat 3 years in a row?

At some level, we all balance what we love to drive vs. what is classed competitively. It's great when the two are both in sync, but that situation rarely lasts long. Part of the game I guess. Don't rule out SM2, where the AWD and FI'd cars do have a weight penalty.

Solid LT1

I gave up on the Sports Car Crybabies of America several years ago when my 72 LT-1 was obsoleted by cars with active braking and traction devices. I race in our local Corvette Council events and have even stopped going to Atwater to run the American Autocross Series events. Good luck to all the Vette competitors at the Nationals.

Jim_Harrison

At some level, we all balance what we love to drive vs. what is classed competitively. It's great when the two are both in sync, but that situation rarely lasts long. Part of the game I guess. Don't rule out SM2, where the AWD and FI'd cars do have a weight penalty.[/QUOTE]

I do love my old non-competitive car and really enjoy driving it but this may be the last year look for a For Sale sign soon. I also enjoy watching you and your co-driver finise that beast of yours around an auto-x track. I thought about going to SM2 this morning but they are in 1st heat on Tuesday, where BSP was last year. Very slippery!

0ATI Performance

It's becoming more and more evident that "our kind" is no longer wanted in SCCA autocross... Look at the classes that grow each year (they all start with ST_ and have almost no American cars). Corvette participation is dwindling across the board... even the recent SM2 rule changes favor the turbo cars (read: RX7). This year, SM2 runs first heat first days on that crappy surface? you've got to be kidding me.

That's ok. There are plenty of other places to play. I ran my first NASA event at Mid-Ohio in August, and for some strange reason the long trek to Topeka is no longer appealing... must be something to do with 4 hours of seat time vs. 6 minutes of seat time/4 hours picking up cones...

Bob

ERND IT

Wow - This would be my first year going to Solo Nationals - and it looks like there are more negative comments from those who have been there than positive...

My class is ASPL - only 3 competitors! It looks like 4th heat on Thurs and Fri - and the other 2 are also running vettes...I know at least 1 of the other competitors is running a 2 driver car (1st driver is in ASP - 1st heat), so I'm not sure how that may factor in...

Only 2 more days to get refunds... I should just save myself a 2 day drive to get there (1000 miles!) and forget it...

TommyBoy72

+1

I am in no rush to go again since the move from Forbes Field. The run order in the last couple of years really has confused me too. I want to go back eventually but it probably will be in something other than a vette.

TedDBere

There's something wrong with every form of competition and I've come to believe that's just the way it is.

I liked watching Danny and Bob run and will miss them, but Junior has stepped up into ASP and he's fun to watch too.

At least SS runs 3rd heat Tu/Wed so we'll have decent rubber down, decent temps and should run before the afternoon thunderstorms roll in. Hopefully a Vette can finally win against the GT3s and Elises in SS with good conditions to put as much power down as possible.

SS has about 70 competitors and is well represented by vettes, but if we don't do well on the Topeka surface this year then we probably never will and the only stock class remaining with American cars will be F-Stock with the Mustang Shelby.

Good luck to the top Vette folks running SS this year, Alek Tziortzis,
Al Chan, Frank Gonzalez, Steve Lanstra, Kevin Dietz, Lance Adams and all the other vette drivers too! See you there.

brenb

...and the FS Camaro.

What about AS? The C4 and the Sol GXP are strong in AS. There is also the CS Solstice.


Don't do that. If you are truly into autox (and you registered for nationals so something tells me you are) then you have to at least experience it once.

SteveC6R

BSP runs Thurs/Fri., better than Tue/Wed IMO. At least there will be some rubber down and the surface won't be all sand. Look at this way, it COULD be worse.

mikahb

Don't do that Donna! Go get 'em and have a great time! Thanks for dropping by Nashville the other day - was good to see you (briefly) and always fun to watch you blow the doors off folks.

I was hoping to hit Nats this year, but neither me nor the car is ready. So, 2008 will be my first year. I agree the BSP situation does stink - no doubt about it. With the performance car world evolving so rapidly, I think maybe the age-old SCCA ways are having a hard time keeping up when it comes to class levelling.

For me, in autocross, the 6 minutes of driving thing is really just part of the sport. It's not unique to Nationals, the SCCA, or this venue - it's just how it works. As far as not having a competitive car, that's a frustration I share, but no matter what you drive at some point you'll be the underdog.

For me, there will be GREAT satisfaction if I can arrive at the National Championships and drive my car to the absolute maximum of my potential. Where that places me in the pack - well that just is what it is.

I still think there is no better way to hone car-control skills than autocross, and no better pool of talent to measure against than the SCCA.

Good luck to all in Topeka!

ERND IT

Thanks, Mikah -
I was really looking forward to the "national" experience, but now I'm just not sure what I should do... you do make some good points, however

no matter what happens this year - I'll look forward to seeing you out there next year for sure!!

LehmanZ06

I say bring on the rally cars--let them move into ASP !

Nationals is not just about the seat time or the surface, but seeing friends, goofing on people, and laughing about everything and anything. (and it's always nice to go to a relatively classy strip joint like Baby Dolls while the wife is 1500 miles away).

For the guys in BSP that are complaining about the rally cars----if they weren't there were you going to win ?

Sometimes the journey is more important than the destination.

Pat's pig has some pretty good b-bcue.

Looking very foward to the "slippery" surface, as my car is even higher now than before with my koni's, looks like a cross between a monster truck and a vette---(but puts the power down nice)

And hey if its cold out, at least my A6's won't over heat.

Besides---do you have any idea how many events I almost had heat stroke at this summer, and almost died.

Added bonus----were else can you walk around with a shirt that says "ITCHY *****" and fit right in---T.O.P.E.K.A

alextz

Well, I always have a blast going to topeka. Ive been going to nationals since 1995, and every year is a a ton of fun. Over the years, you get to know people, so seeing people you hadnt seen in a year is kinda cool.

Super stock is the largest class at nationals, and is the largest class to ever be at a solo nationals (previous was CP with 65) this year.

Anyway, see you all in Topeka.

Alex Tziortzis

RX7 KLR

imho the ricer cars/classes were not the demise of the BSP Corvette, sure the rally cars did not help, it is just a matter of newer technology. Just as the C4 came and eventually killed off the C3, Raft put up a good fight, but hard to argue the C4 was a faster BSP car than the C3 once they got them developed. Now fast forward a few years and you have the C5 Z06. Why in the hell would I want to spend all the time and money to build a C4 into a BSP car when I can pick up a used C5 Z06 and go as fast (or faster) and still have a street-able car. I think the numbers agree with this, SS was always big, but when the Z06 came on the scene the class blew up bigger than ever. Start to look around and I think there are a few ex-BSPers that have moved on to C5s or C6s in some shape or form.

I know it sucks to have a faster car put in your class. I went through that when I ran my C4 in SS and had the Z06 put in my class. We sucked it up for a few years and then we were moved to AS. Of course, then I got tired of working on a old car and went warranty racing.