So how you guys do at barber.
09-17-2007, 06:45 AM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
So how you guys do at barber.
I'm not really sure what a good lap time is at barber and also need some pointers on a few turns there. I had a great time, definitely my second favorite track to Road Atlanta now, I think I might be ready to be in a faster group than novice though 
.
Turns:
4, can anyone stay on it the whole time here? I tried the first session I turned my PSM (TC) off and almost lost it even with an instructor in the car, I may be pinching the wheel (only using 3/4's of straight to track out) too much and not using all of the track but it seems like I wont make it back across in time for 5 if I do.
8, seems like there are different lines taken here too, I spent all day basically rounding the whole curb with a jerk of the wheel at the bottom of the kink (which was fun) and the car just whipped around the curb. But later I tried only going about halfway around and tracking out much earlier and it seemed faster. Thoughts?
9,10 Anyone brake for this? found myself coasting and taking the turn at speed and back on gas, but some people brake, does that help?
13 Tap brakes at 12, or take at speed going over the hill?
.Turns:
4, can anyone stay on it the whole time here? I tried the first session I turned my PSM (TC) off and almost lost it even with an instructor in the car, I may be pinching the wheel (only using 3/4's of straight to track out) too much and not using all of the track but it seems like I wont make it back across in time for 5 if I do.
8, seems like there are different lines taken here too, I spent all day basically rounding the whole curb with a jerk of the wheel at the bottom of the kink (which was fun) and the car just whipped around the curb. But later I tried only going about halfway around and tracking out much earlier and it seemed faster. Thoughts?
9,10 Anyone brake for this? found myself coasting and taking the turn at speed and back on gas, but some people brake, does that help?
13 Tap brakes at 12, or take at speed going over the hill?
09-17-2007, 10:36 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Turns:
4, can anyone stay on it the whole time here? I tried the first session I turned my PSM (TC) off and almost lost it even with an instructor in the car, I may be pinching the wheel (only using 3/4's of straight to track out) too much and not using all of the track but it seems like I wont make it back across in time for 5 if I do.
4, can anyone stay on it the whole time here? I tried the first session I turned my PSM (TC) off and almost lost it even with an instructor in the car, I may be pinching the wheel (only using 3/4's of straight to track out) too much and not using all of the track but it seems like I wont make it back across in time for 5 if I do.
Let the car track out to the left (I tell my students to aim for the scoring/clock tower) until it settles, then bring back across to the right. Also, it will help you keep the car under control if you short-shift to 4th going up the hill. You will not lose any significant time by doing this. And yes, you can stay in the gas the whole time here...as long as you track all the way out.
8, seems like there are different lines taken here too, I spent all day basically rounding the whole curb with a jerk of the wheel at the bottom of the kink (which was fun) and the car just whipped around the curb. But later I tried only going about halfway around and tracking out much earlier and it seemed faster. Thoughts?
9,10 Anyone brake for this? found myself coasting and taking the turn at speed and back on gas, but some people brake, does that help?
13 Tap brakes at 12, or take at speed going over the hill?
I'm in the process of capturing some video and making QuickTime movies now. I'll post links to them shortly. Glad you had fun, and it was awesome to see SO MANY Vettes out there. I don't think I've ever seen that many at a Barber event, much less that many C6Zs in one place!
Fred
09-17-2007, 11:38 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's a QuickTime vid of my best recorded lap to date, a 1:43.70:
http://homepage.mac.com/fredo/barber...p_1m43.70s.mov
And another one of a fun run between David Leonard in his brother's gnarly Mustang, Rob Morrison (the chief instructor) in a hopped up '00FRC, and myself. Just listen to the symphony of engine noises!
http://homepage.mac.com/fredo/barber...ve_&_Rob_M.mov
http://homepage.mac.com/fredo/barber...p_1m43.70s.mov
And another one of a fun run between David Leonard in his brother's gnarly Mustang, Rob Morrison (the chief instructor) in a hopped up '00FRC, and myself. Just listen to the symphony of engine noises!
http://homepage.mac.com/fredo/barber...ve_&_Rob_M.mov
09-17-2007, 01:08 PM
#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
[/B]
I think I was a little aprehensive because I drove Roebling and couldnt even get in the teens and felt very uncomfy (bad, bad instructor) and since that was the first track I had done (well other than talladega GP) other than Road Atlanta (1:35), I began to think I was a one track wonder, but I think with more practice I can be in the high-mid 1:30's at barber, got some weight coming out of the car too (about 200 lbs over the winter) so that should help.
Thanks for the input I didnt know who was who since there were in fact so many vettes out there, ended up meeting varkswo though.
Glad you enjoyed "my" track (in my backyard anyway)! A "good lap time" at Barber is completely relative, I guess. If it was your first time, I'd say anything around 1:55-2:00 is pretty good. What was your best?
Well I pick up things pretty fast and I'm a pretty agressive driver, I think I picked up on barber faster than I have any track, I still know what people I should be close to and I didnt get as close as I'd like to have, I was in novice the whole day and me and a Red GT3 were lapping pretty much everyone save a couple every few laps, nothing close to a clean lap, I then ended up in blue group with the master instructor testing me, I passed 5 or 6 people then, but my best time up until that point was a 1:44.6, I skipped most of the last green session to try and get a good run for the last open session and got to grid first, did about 4 good clean laps my best time was a 1:41.8, I ran two 1:42's, so I guess I wasnt bad, but I realized during that time that being in the novice group hurt me because I wasnt carrying speed into and out of corners well enough (traffic) to do them properly so I learned a lot on the last three laps
You will (make it back across in time). The main thing w/ 4 is to make sure you don't pinch it, esp. when carrying more and more speed. If you do, you'll be getting a nice 360° view of that straight. Let the car track out to the left (I tell my students to aim for the scoring/clock tower) until it settles, then bring back across to the right. Also, it will help you keep the car under control if you short-shift to 4th going up the hill. You will not lose any significant time by doing this. And yes, you can stay in the gas the whole time here...as long as you track all the way out.I guess I was a little timid there being it is so blind, I hit the apex well enough, but even after several laps I would still be letting off for a spolit second because I didnt think the track was wide enough, but it always much wider than the speed I was carrying
One key to 8 (bottom of the "Corkscrew") is to make sure you straighten out at the top. So, make your turn-in, then straighten out so that you go right across the concrete on the left. This sets you up far enough to the left that you have a better line coming out of the right-hander at the bottom. Plus, you can actually get back on the gas for a split second after turn-in, then back on the brakes. Definitely don't want to pinch it in at the bottom, as it takes too long to build speed back up. Try making a slightly abrupt steering input to the right to get the car to rotate (sounds like you may already be), but then let it track out as you build speed.
I did straighten up there, but probably tried to hug the inside line too long, I guess because it felt so good and fast, but after trying the other way, I'm sure you are right about it taking too long to build speed back up, especially when you have a turbo car and some lag
At the "Kink"...NO. After exiting the Corkscrew, run up thru 3rd, upshift, then feather the throttle to maintain a constant speed (probably around 80-90, but adjust as you feel comfortable) as you enter the Kink. I prefer a more pronounced 'S' maneuver thru here, as it feels like the car takes a set better and you can make sure not to early apex the right-hand exit (doing so runs the risk of pushing you into the grass on the outside...not good).
I saw a video of Patrick Long and he instructed to brake there, that's why I asked, but the way you describe, is the way I did it, thanks.
Only braking you need thru the "Tunnel Turn" is your initial turn-in and downshift off of the back straight. That's assuming that you're hugging the left after turn-in to set up for the right-hand climbing of the hill. I prefer this method as the late apex you get means you're climbing the hill straight, and not trying to cut across it while turning (and potentially visiting the grass on the left). Once you're straight cresting the hill, you can get back on the gas for a second, then let off as you descend, and roll in across that long concrete patch on the right.
I felt good on this turn maybe 3 times out of the whole day, all the rest I felt like I was either scrubbing speed, or going too fast to where I had to struggle to keep the outside tire from touching the grass, I started dabbing the brakes but I couldnt find the right spot to do so, so I ended up wider than I would have liked or too tight and using too much of the raise in the curb, I'd like to ride with someone to see how they do it.
I'm in the process of capturing some video and making QuickTime movies now. I'll post links to them shortly. Glad you had fun, and it was awesome to see SO MANY Vettes out there. I don't think I've ever seen that many at a Barber event, much less that many C6Zs in one place!
You're right, though I wasnt in my vette (selling), I was in my 911 TT
Fred
Well I pick up things pretty fast and I'm a pretty agressive driver, I think I picked up on barber faster than I have any track, I still know what people I should be close to and I didnt get as close as I'd like to have, I was in novice the whole day and me and a Red GT3 were lapping pretty much everyone save a couple every few laps, nothing close to a clean lap, I then ended up in blue group with the master instructor testing me, I passed 5 or 6 people then, but my best time up until that point was a 1:44.6, I skipped most of the last green session to try and get a good run for the last open session and got to grid first, did about 4 good clean laps my best time was a 1:41.8, I ran two 1:42's, so I guess I wasnt bad, but I realized during that time that being in the novice group hurt me because I wasnt carrying speed into and out of corners well enough (traffic) to do them properly so I learned a lot on the last three laps
You will (make it back across in time). The main thing w/ 4 is to make sure you don't pinch it, esp. when carrying more and more speed. If you do, you'll be getting a nice 360° view of that straight.
Let the car track out to the left (I tell my students to aim for the scoring/clock tower) until it settles, then bring back across to the right. Also, it will help you keep the car under control if you short-shift to 4th going up the hill. You will not lose any significant time by doing this. And yes, you can stay in the gas the whole time here...as long as you track all the way out.I guess I was a little timid there being it is so blind, I hit the apex well enough, but even after several laps I would still be letting off for a spolit second because I didnt think the track was wide enough, but it always much wider than the speed I was carryingOne key to 8 (bottom of the "Corkscrew") is to make sure you straighten out at the top. So, make your turn-in, then straighten out so that you go right across the concrete on the left. This sets you up far enough to the left that you have a better line coming out of the right-hander at the bottom. Plus, you can actually get back on the gas for a split second after turn-in, then back on the brakes. Definitely don't want to pinch it in at the bottom, as it takes too long to build speed back up. Try making a slightly abrupt steering input to the right to get the car to rotate (sounds like you may already be), but then let it track out as you build speed.
I did straighten up there, but probably tried to hug the inside line too long, I guess because it felt so good and fast, but after trying the other way, I'm sure you are right about it taking too long to build speed back up, especially when you have a turbo car and some lag
At the "Kink"...NO. After exiting the Corkscrew, run up thru 3rd, upshift, then feather the throttle to maintain a constant speed (probably around 80-90, but adjust as you feel comfortable) as you enter the Kink. I prefer a more pronounced 'S' maneuver thru here, as it feels like the car takes a set better and you can make sure not to early apex the right-hand exit (doing so runs the risk of pushing you into the grass on the outside...not good).
I saw a video of Patrick Long and he instructed to brake there, that's why I asked, but the way you describe, is the way I did it, thanks.
Only braking you need thru the "Tunnel Turn" is your initial turn-in and downshift off of the back straight. That's assuming that you're hugging the left after turn-in to set up for the right-hand climbing of the hill. I prefer this method as the late apex you get means you're climbing the hill straight, and not trying to cut across it while turning (and potentially visiting the grass on the left). Once you're straight cresting the hill, you can get back on the gas for a second, then let off as you descend, and roll in across that long concrete patch on the right.
I felt good on this turn maybe 3 times out of the whole day, all the rest I felt like I was either scrubbing speed, or going too fast to where I had to struggle to keep the outside tire from touching the grass, I started dabbing the brakes but I couldnt find the right spot to do so, so I ended up wider than I would have liked or too tight and using too much of the raise in the curb, I'd like to ride with someone to see how they do it.
I'm in the process of capturing some video and making QuickTime movies now. I'll post links to them shortly. Glad you had fun, and it was awesome to see SO MANY Vettes out there. I don't think I've ever seen that many at a Barber event, much less that many C6Zs in one place!
You're right, though I wasnt in my vette (selling), I was in my 911 TT
Fred
Thanks for the input I didnt know who was who since there were in fact so many vettes out there, ended up meeting varkswo though.
09-17-2007, 01:26 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that my car is running pretty well, I've dropped a second at each of the last 2 events, so my gains are only gradual. A 1:41 the first time out...I wanna know what you're having for breakfast!
09-17-2007, 01:49 PM
#6
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I would say not bad at all for your first time at the place...good Lord! I guess that video of mine can serve as a slow-mo refresher for you. Now that my car is running pretty well, I've dropped a second at each of the last 2 events, so my gains are only gradual. A 1:41 the first time out...I wanna know what you're having for breakfast!
Now that my car is running pretty well, I've dropped a second at each of the last 2 events, so my gains are only gradual. A 1:41 the first time out...I wanna know what you're having for breakfast!I know Reece wont be at NASA next month, and due to Ed's circumstances (which I think is
from NASA) he wont be either and since we all run TTU I'm hoping to get a win at some point, though the silver mustang (in red group) that was there is a rival and friend of mine too and he ran 1:40.2 so I have some work to do between now and then. And then there is the 997 GT3 CUP CAR, on full slicks that gets to run TTU , hope he doesnt make it. It's hard to compete at 3580 (with me in car) vs 3400 (mustang) 3200,3150 (Ed, Reece) and 2900 (cup car). Next year I'm going for TTS and toning it down or full TTU and full blast. Reece is going to be unstopable with those 454's in TTU so I just have to hope he doesnt show up.
Last edited by heavychevy; 09-17-2007 at 01:52 PM.
09-17-2007, 02:36 PM
#7
Safety Car
I had never been to the track before and I really enjoyed it! I was driving the red 95 camaro (with oil injection). My g/f said she timed me around 1:43 but I am not sure I ran that fast. Attached is a video of a 1:46 with a small bit of traffic. I'm sure there is a bit more time to be had with some work on the line and some better tires. I noticed in Fred's video he takes a tighter line in 14 than I did, I also did not like running over the concrete in the corkscrew, as it seemed to upset my car.
http://timz06.com/movies/barber1.wmv
Tim
http://timz06.com/movies/barber1.wmv
Tim
09-17-2007, 04:31 PM
#8
Pro
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: boiling springs sc
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
St. Jude Donor '06
my first trip to barber is with nasa next month. you guys will have to show me the way around... watching the vids helps ,but chasing someone is much better...
Johnny
Johnny
09-17-2007, 07:28 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
I had never been to the track before and I really enjoyed it! I was driving the red 95 camaro (with oil injection). My g/f said she timed me around 1:43 but I am not sure I ran that fast. Attached is a video of a 1:46 with a small bit of traffic. I'm sure there is a bit more time to be had with some work on the line and some better tires. I noticed in Fred's video he takes a tighter line in 14 than I did, I also did not like running over the concrete in the corkscrew, as it seemed to upset my car.
http://timz06.com/movies/barber1.wmv
Tim
http://timz06.com/movies/barber1.wmv
Tim
A buddy of mine in a Viper was running 1:41s there on his first trip. He was doing great.
I think I was running 2:10's maybe 2:11s....
The kink was giving me trouble in the ZO6 but I was able to hammer through in the 911 - the balance difference was noticable there. It felt real "light" when I went through without a brake tap - probably due to my lack of aggression...
It was amazing the difference in brake points and modulation difference in the 911 vs the ZO6. The ZO6 was faster - but the track really seems to like the 911 chassis.
I think the tunnel now has my attention....
It was great to meet a few folks - Fred we are going to have to run at some other tracks together!
09-17-2007, 07:37 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
09-17-2007, 07:49 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I had never been to the track before and I really enjoyed it! I was driving the red 95 camaro (with oil injection)... I noticed in Fred's video he takes a tighter line in 14 than I did, I also did not like running over the concrete in the corkscrew, as it seemed to upset my car.
A couple times I was coming up behind you and almost had to let up to see where I was going. That was crazy!There are about a million different ways to do 14, IMHO. I used to use the safe, "DE line" whereby you let the car drift out straight to brake, then turn back hard to the right. I've gotten to prefer letting off the gas to let the nose bite while doing a little bit of trailbraking. To me it seems to shave quite a bit of distance and time off the lap. You can almost duck under someone doing the DE line w/o them even knowing...
It was great to meet a few folks - Fred we are going to have to run at some other tracks together!
FT
09-17-2007, 08:15 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Ah.....Absolutely! It was great to see you again, Jeff-- had been a long time. Wish we had more time to visit, but that 3-group-only format while driving one and instructing another makes for a busy day. Hope your door isn't damaged too badly and that you can get it fixed up w/o difficulty. I'll be at Road Atlanta next weekend, then back at Barber for NASA in October. Let me know if you'll be at either of those.
FT
FT
I am more concerned with checking the suspension - the tires and wheels took most of the shock...
I hope to get a chance to talk to you about brake points. I tried several - I pretty much ran your video line and shift points....
09-17-2007, 08:19 PM
#13
Safety Car
Sorry about the smokescreen, the intake was sucking in oil through the PCV....I felt bad about it, whenever someone was behind me that I thought I could not pull away from, I would just let them by...
Ok, it was really my secret weapon to keep from being passed!
I don't know if that tight line will work on the smoke screen-maro, it has plenty of front end bite, but not much rear--I was trying to brake in a straight line. I will give it a try next time around.
Ok, it was really my secret weapon to keep from being passed!
I don't know if that tight line will work on the smoke screen-maro, it has plenty of front end bite, but not much rear--I was trying to brake in a straight line. I will give it a try next time around.
09-17-2007, 08:32 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know if that tight line will work on the smoke screen-maro, it has plenty of front end bite, but not much rear--I was trying to brake in a straight line. I will give it a try next time around.
FT
09-17-2007, 08:53 PM
#15
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No damage, just some teeth rattling.Looks like I missed all the fun. Good driving tips here....I'll have to re-read before Barber rolls around again. Did the family thing and took the kids to the county fair last weekend.
Jeff, I'll run with Fred at RA next weekend in your place...
09-17-2007, 10:18 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jun 2004
Location: Birmingham AL
Posts: 860
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sounds good, buddy! Which group are you gonna be in? I'm signed up for instructing, so hopefully that'll mean we're in the same group (or can be). After the Friday "bonus" session, I should be well familiarized w/ that awesome track!
09-17-2007, 10:29 PM
#17
Drifting
Member Since: Oct 2005
Location: Georgia
Posts: 1,302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'll come look for your red beast on Friday and see if I can get a spot nearby...
09-18-2007, 09:56 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Sep 2000
Location: Kennesaw Georgia
Posts: 2,053
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=fhturner;1561954347]Great! Look forward to seeing you again then. As for brake points, you could probably find better to talk to than I, but I'll be glad to tell you what I know. David Leonard is The Man at Barber, as far as I'm concerned, so you'll probably wanna talk to him, too.
Hhmmmm... David waits until he sees the Face of GOD...
then he counts to three, before braking !!!
Hhmmmm... David waits until he sees the Face of GOD... then he counts to three, before braking !!!
09-18-2007, 04:12 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
Wayne - you do not do too badly there yourself
