We need a bushing sticky - My contribution
10-06-2007, 01:53 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
We need a bushing sticky - My contribution
I had ordered some bushings from DRM a few weeks ago but after starting to tackle the project realized that for my particular application I should get the ones with the pre-made inserts.
For some reason on one side the front LCA bushing sleeves were 2 piece which made it easy, the other side however was one piece in the same location.
That right there made my decision. I sent back the bushings to DRM and ordered the Pfadt kit. Same bushings but the Pfadt kit gives you very very nice machined sleeves from aluminum.
I've heard from many how tough of a job this is but after getting the fronts setup I personally don't think its the end of the world job.
Of course I also think its cake to take apart suspensions and put them back together.
My tips and my method. Total time to do the fronts, 1 hour, rears I cannot see why they'd be any longer. That is with the arms OFF the car.
Time to take the stuff off the car, if your comfortable 45 minutes for one side, 25 for the other side, fronts only.
Rear I'll comment on when I get to it. I did this on jack stands and air tools.
What you will need:
1 MAP Gas Torch
1 Vice
1 Air Cut off tool with largest diameter wheel you can get
3 screw drivers that you do NOT want. Buy a cheap small, medium, and medium large flat head, after your done you will not want these.
Some kind of cutting tool that takes razorblades, again a throw away item.
Latex throw away gloves
Tin foil
Small fan(very important)
I did my job on a wooden bench that had treated wood, so the wood would not catch on fire no matter how hard I went at it with the torch
When I work on things I do everything I can to save my sanity first then make the job easier. I'll buy a tool at the drop of a hat to keep things sane and the language down
I originally bought a press to do this job. The press showed up with a improperly welded ram on it which just screwed the whole week up. This is after I welded together the tool to remove the bushings. After playing around with it unless you have a good set of arbors and are really prepared to play around with them you'll spend more time setting up and wrestling with the stuff than doing my method.
Anyone want to buy a nice assembled press New part is on the way to fix the bent ram.
Ok, get the easy stuff out of the way. I got this method off of Corvette Fever.
Take each upper control arm and put the end of the dog bone in the vice. Take the MAP gas torch and heat up the area where the bushing goes in. 1 minute is enough. Take 2 minutes and burn/melt the top side of the bushing. Make sure the vice is TIGHT, turn and twist and they pop right out.
Total time to do all 4 UCA bushings, 10 minutes. You do not really need to heat them up HOT until they are smoking, just enough to get them to twist easily. The edge however you want to get red and smoking. When you twist turn at an angle and you'll see the bushing want to go into the sleeve of the arm. Comes right out after that.
My LCA bushings were different from side to side. A few people told me the sleeves were 2 piece. Mine were not. 1 was, the other 3 were not so this goes with that idea.
This is messy, wear gloves, put down tin foil on your bench and put something on the floor too since stuff will end up on the floor.
This part smells and creates smoke so I put a fan on low to keep the smoke out of my way.
I heated up the edges until it started to bubble and smoke, they will catch on fire but you can blow it out easily. On the smaller side of the sleeve is where I did most of the work and on the sleeve itself. The large side you can hit a bit but when you do, the edges are important. Once you get it nice and hot you can use a screwdriver, large one, to pry the sleeve out about 1/4". I went back to the torch and burnt off another portion which covers the sleeve. Now you can take the razor blade and score the rubber around the sleeve shaft. Now score the rubber between the pin and the sleeve. You should be able to use a small screw driver now and peel away the rubber leaving you a good 1/2" or more.
Take the air cut off wheel and lop off the end.
Heat it up again and pry from the other side. The pin will come out with some effort, then another screw driver between the rubber and the sleeve, it'll pop out.
I learned the hard way. Rubber under pressure goes a long way...and when its hot it leaves rubber streaks as it bounces across the hood of your Corvette
15-20 minutes for each LCA bushing.
Not as bad of a job as I've heard. Change the gloves often and be careful of switching ends to work on. On the UCA's do one dog bone, then do the other UCA dog bone, then go back to the original. That will leave enough time for the end to cool so you can grab it.
I go through gloves on jobs like this very quickly and especially here since I do not want to get rubber everywhere.
I'll take pics along the way when I do the rears which will hopefully clarify this more.
I did this job in the middle of completely redoing the front suspension of our Jeep and once I get done with the Corvette I have the same job in mind for the rear.
If found this method to be easier and with less investment than other methods.
For some reason on one side the front LCA bushing sleeves were 2 piece which made it easy, the other side however was one piece in the same location.
That right there made my decision. I sent back the bushings to DRM and ordered the Pfadt kit. Same bushings but the Pfadt kit gives you very very nice machined sleeves from aluminum.
I've heard from many how tough of a job this is but after getting the fronts setup I personally don't think its the end of the world job.
Of course I also think its cake to take apart suspensions and put them back together.
My tips and my method. Total time to do the fronts, 1 hour, rears I cannot see why they'd be any longer. That is with the arms OFF the car.
Time to take the stuff off the car, if your comfortable 45 minutes for one side, 25 for the other side, fronts only.
Rear I'll comment on when I get to it. I did this on jack stands and air tools.
What you will need:
1 MAP Gas Torch
1 Vice
1 Air Cut off tool with largest diameter wheel you can get
3 screw drivers that you do NOT want. Buy a cheap small, medium, and medium large flat head, after your done you will not want these.
Some kind of cutting tool that takes razorblades, again a throw away item.
Latex throw away gloves
Tin foil
Small fan(very important)
I did my job on a wooden bench that had treated wood, so the wood would not catch on fire no matter how hard I went at it with the torch
When I work on things I do everything I can to save my sanity first then make the job easier. I'll buy a tool at the drop of a hat to keep things sane and the language down
I originally bought a press to do this job. The press showed up with a improperly welded ram on it which just screwed the whole week up. This is after I welded together the tool to remove the bushings. After playing around with it unless you have a good set of arbors and are really prepared to play around with them you'll spend more time setting up and wrestling with the stuff than doing my method.
Anyone want to buy a nice assembled press
New part is on the way to fix the bent ram.Ok, get the easy stuff out of the way. I got this method off of Corvette Fever.
Take each upper control arm and put the end of the dog bone in the vice. Take the MAP gas torch and heat up the area where the bushing goes in. 1 minute is enough. Take 2 minutes and burn/melt the top side of the bushing. Make sure the vice is TIGHT, turn and twist and they pop right out.
Total time to do all 4 UCA bushings, 10 minutes. You do not really need to heat them up HOT until they are smoking, just enough to get them to twist easily. The edge however you want to get red and smoking. When you twist turn at an angle and you'll see the bushing want to go into the sleeve of the arm. Comes right out after that.
My LCA bushings were different from side to side. A few people told me the sleeves were 2 piece. Mine were not. 1 was, the other 3 were not so this goes with that idea.
This is messy, wear gloves, put down tin foil on your bench and put something on the floor too since stuff will end up on the floor.
This part smells and creates smoke so I put a fan on low to keep the smoke out of my way.
I heated up the edges until it started to bubble and smoke, they will catch on fire but you can blow it out easily. On the smaller side of the sleeve is where I did most of the work and on the sleeve itself. The large side you can hit a bit but when you do, the edges are important. Once you get it nice and hot you can use a screwdriver, large one, to pry the sleeve out about 1/4". I went back to the torch and burnt off another portion which covers the sleeve. Now you can take the razor blade and score the rubber around the sleeve shaft. Now score the rubber between the pin and the sleeve. You should be able to use a small screw driver now and peel away the rubber leaving you a good 1/2" or more.
Take the air cut off wheel and lop off the end.
Heat it up again and pry from the other side. The pin will come out with some effort, then another screw driver between the rubber and the sleeve, it'll pop out.
I learned the hard way. Rubber under pressure goes a long way...and when its hot it leaves rubber streaks as it bounces across the hood of your Corvette
15-20 minutes for each LCA bushing.
Not as bad of a job as I've heard. Change the gloves often and be careful of switching ends to work on. On the UCA's do one dog bone, then do the other UCA dog bone, then go back to the original. That will leave enough time for the end to cool so you can grab it.
I go through gloves on jobs like this very quickly and especially here since I do not want to get rubber everywhere.
I'll take pics along the way when I do the rears which will hopefully clarify this more.
I did this job in the middle of completely redoing the front suspension of our Jeep and once I get done with the Corvette I have the same job in mind for the rear.
If found this method to be easier and with less investment than other methods.
10-08-2007, 01:38 AM
#2
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2006
Location: Phoenix Arizona
Posts: 7,251
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I had ordered some bushings from DRM a few weeks ago but after starting to tackle the project realized that for my particular application I should get the ones with the pre-made inserts.
For some reason on one side the front LCA bushing sleeves were 2 piece which made it easy, the other side however was one piece in the same location.
That right there made my decision. I sent back the bushings to DRM and ordered the Pfadt kit. Same bushings but the Pfadt kit gives you very very nice machined sleeves from aluminum.
I've heard from many how tough of a job this is but after getting the fronts setup I personally don't think its the end of the world job.
Of course I also think its cake to take apart suspensions and put them back together.
My tips and my method. Total time to do the fronts, 1 hour, rears I cannot see why they'd be any longer. That is with the arms OFF the car.
Time to take the stuff off the car, if your comfortable 45 minutes for one side, 25 for the other side, fronts only.
Rear I'll comment on when I get to it. I did this on jack stands and air tools.
What you will need:
1 MAP Gas Torch
1 Vice
1 Air Cut off tool with largest diameter wheel you can get
3 screw drivers that you do NOT want. Buy a cheap small, medium, and medium large flat head, after your done you will not want these.
Some kind of cutting tool that takes razorblades, again a throw away item.
Latex throw away gloves
Tin foil
Small fan(very important)
I did my job on a wooden bench that had treated wood, so the wood would not catch on fire no matter how hard I went at it with the torch
When I work on things I do everything I can to save my sanity first then make the job easier. I'll buy a tool at the drop of a hat to keep things sane and the language down
I originally bought a press to do this job. The press showed up with a improperly welded ram on it which just screwed the whole week up. This is after I welded together the tool to remove the bushings. After playing around with it unless you have a good set of arbors and are really prepared to play around with them you'll spend more time setting up and wrestling with the stuff than doing my method.
Anyone want to buy a nice assembled press New part is on the way to fix the bent ram.
Ok, get the easy stuff out of the way. I got this method off of Corvette Fever.
Take each upper control arm and put the end of the dog bone in the vice. Take the MAP gas torch and heat up the area where the bushing goes in. 1 minute is enough. Take 2 minutes and burn/melt the top side of the bushing. Make sure the vice is TIGHT, turn and twist and they pop right out.
Total time to do all 4 UCA bushings, 10 minutes. You do not really need to heat them up HOT until they are smoking, just enough to get them to twist easily. The edge however you want to get red and smoking. When you twist turn at an angle and you'll see the bushing want to go into the sleeve of the arm. Comes right out after that.
My LCA bushings were different from side to side. A few people told me the sleeves were 2 piece. Mine were not. 1 was, the other 3 were not so this goes with that idea.
This is messy, wear gloves, put down tin foil on your bench and put something on the floor too since stuff will end up on the floor.
This part smells and creates smoke so I put a fan on low to keep the smoke out of my way.
I heated up the edges until it started to bubble and smoke, they will catch on fire but you can blow it out easily. On the smaller side of the sleeve is where I did most of the work and on the sleeve itself. The large side you can hit a bit but when you do, the edges are important. Once you get it nice and hot you can use a screwdriver, large one, to pry the sleeve out about 1/4". I went back to the torch and burnt off another portion which covers the sleeve. Now you can take the razor blade and score the rubber around the sleeve shaft. Now score the rubber between the pin and the sleeve. You should be able to use a small screw driver now and peel away the rubber leaving you a good 1/2" or more.
Take the air cut off wheel and lop off the end.
Heat it up again and pry from the other side. The pin will come out with some effort, then another screw driver between the rubber and the sleeve, it'll pop out.
I learned the hard way. Rubber under pressure goes a long way...and when its hot it leaves rubber streaks as it bounces across the hood of your Corvette
15-20 minutes for each LCA bushing.
Not as bad of a job as I've heard. Change the gloves often and be careful of switching ends to work on. On the UCA's do one dog bone, then do the other UCA dog bone, then go back to the original. That will leave enough time for the end to cool so you can grab it.
I go through gloves on jobs like this very quickly and especially here since I do not want to get rubber everywhere.
I'll take pics along the way when I do the rears which will hopefully clarify this more.
I did this job in the middle of completely redoing the front suspension of our Jeep and once I get done with the Corvette I have the same job in mind for the rear.
If found this method to be easier and with less investment than other methods.
For some reason on one side the front LCA bushing sleeves were 2 piece which made it easy, the other side however was one piece in the same location.
That right there made my decision. I sent back the bushings to DRM and ordered the Pfadt kit. Same bushings but the Pfadt kit gives you very very nice machined sleeves from aluminum.
I've heard from many how tough of a job this is but after getting the fronts setup I personally don't think its the end of the world job.
Of course I also think its cake to take apart suspensions and put them back together.
My tips and my method. Total time to do the fronts, 1 hour, rears I cannot see why they'd be any longer. That is with the arms OFF the car.
Time to take the stuff off the car, if your comfortable 45 minutes for one side, 25 for the other side, fronts only.
Rear I'll comment on when I get to it. I did this on jack stands and air tools.
What you will need:
1 MAP Gas Torch
1 Vice
1 Air Cut off tool with largest diameter wheel you can get
3 screw drivers that you do NOT want. Buy a cheap small, medium, and medium large flat head, after your done you will not want these.
Some kind of cutting tool that takes razorblades, again a throw away item.
Latex throw away gloves
Tin foil
Small fan(very important)
I did my job on a wooden bench that had treated wood, so the wood would not catch on fire no matter how hard I went at it with the torch
When I work on things I do everything I can to save my sanity first then make the job easier. I'll buy a tool at the drop of a hat to keep things sane and the language down
I originally bought a press to do this job. The press showed up with a improperly welded ram on it which just screwed the whole week up. This is after I welded together the tool to remove the bushings. After playing around with it unless you have a good set of arbors and are really prepared to play around with them you'll spend more time setting up and wrestling with the stuff than doing my method.
Anyone want to buy a nice assembled press
New part is on the way to fix the bent ram.Ok, get the easy stuff out of the way. I got this method off of Corvette Fever.
Take each upper control arm and put the end of the dog bone in the vice. Take the MAP gas torch and heat up the area where the bushing goes in. 1 minute is enough. Take 2 minutes and burn/melt the top side of the bushing. Make sure the vice is TIGHT, turn and twist and they pop right out.
Total time to do all 4 UCA bushings, 10 minutes. You do not really need to heat them up HOT until they are smoking, just enough to get them to twist easily. The edge however you want to get red and smoking. When you twist turn at an angle and you'll see the bushing want to go into the sleeve of the arm. Comes right out after that.
My LCA bushings were different from side to side. A few people told me the sleeves were 2 piece. Mine were not. 1 was, the other 3 were not so this goes with that idea.
This is messy, wear gloves, put down tin foil on your bench and put something on the floor too since stuff will end up on the floor.
This part smells and creates smoke so I put a fan on low to keep the smoke out of my way.
I heated up the edges until it started to bubble and smoke, they will catch on fire but you can blow it out easily. On the smaller side of the sleeve is where I did most of the work and on the sleeve itself. The large side you can hit a bit but when you do, the edges are important. Once you get it nice and hot you can use a screwdriver, large one, to pry the sleeve out about 1/4". I went back to the torch and burnt off another portion which covers the sleeve. Now you can take the razor blade and score the rubber around the sleeve shaft. Now score the rubber between the pin and the sleeve. You should be able to use a small screw driver now and peel away the rubber leaving you a good 1/2" or more.
Take the air cut off wheel and lop off the end.
Heat it up again and pry from the other side. The pin will come out with some effort, then another screw driver between the rubber and the sleeve, it'll pop out.
I learned the hard way. Rubber under pressure goes a long way...and when its hot it leaves rubber streaks as it bounces across the hood of your Corvette
15-20 minutes for each LCA bushing.
Not as bad of a job as I've heard. Change the gloves often and be careful of switching ends to work on. On the UCA's do one dog bone, then do the other UCA dog bone, then go back to the original. That will leave enough time for the end to cool so you can grab it.
I go through gloves on jobs like this very quickly and especially here since I do not want to get rubber everywhere.
I'll take pics along the way when I do the rears which will hopefully clarify this more.
I did this job in the middle of completely redoing the front suspension of our Jeep and once I get done with the Corvette I have the same job in mind for the rear.
If found this method to be easier and with less investment than other methods.
and timing is wonderful i need to change mine!
Please post those pictures when ready!
10-08-2007, 10:46 AM
#4
Le Mans Master
10-08-2007, 10:51 AM
#5
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 5,708
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Cruise-In II Veteran
I have the Pfadt's on my car and I am very impressed with them. The only thing I would add to the above post is that I did not need to use the "Wheel of death" (as a friend of mine calls it, that being a cut off wheel, angle grinder etc), because after the rubber is smoking, the end caps will pop off with a big screwdriver/pry bar. Very complete kit and the machined pieces are first rate. Alss, I noticed some longitudinal grooves on the ID of the urethane bushing to hold some grease, which is a nice touch!
10-09-2007, 08:45 PM
#7
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Gary,
Wheel of death very important....my car did not have 2 piece inserts, 1 piece only so I had to seperate them.
I had 1 insert that was 2 piece, the rest were all 1 piece.
I was however subject again to the lowest common denominator problem. Long story short I had something hot and heavy at work so that cut down my time to work on the car.
I called a local machine shop and they told me "$20 an arm", sweet!
So I take the arms there today. I asked Pfadt to ship me plenty of polylube which they did. I told them here are 8 packets of lube, only takes about 3-4, the rest were for the inserts.
Go pick them up...where is the rest of the lube? "oh we used it" 8 packets of lube to put in 10 bushings...I was pretty pissed.
Thankfully, somewhat, there was so much excess I could scrape it off and use it for the inserts.
Then they lost the directions which I gave to them to verify orientation. I was going to put the inserts in myself.
I called Pfadt and they said they'd email them to me but never showed up. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that my firewall at work grabbed it because it was zipped but long story short, no way for me to get the car done for my last event of the year.
I can have it moving easy enough but I have to get it aligned, corner weighted, etc...
Wheel of death very important....my car did not have 2 piece inserts, 1 piece only so I had to seperate them.
I had 1 insert that was 2 piece, the rest were all 1 piece.
I was however subject again to the lowest common denominator problem. Long story short I had something hot and heavy at work so that cut down my time to work on the car.
I called a local machine shop and they told me "$20 an arm", sweet!
So I take the arms there today. I asked Pfadt to ship me plenty of polylube which they did. I told them here are 8 packets of lube, only takes about 3-4, the rest were for the inserts.
Go pick them up...where is the rest of the lube? "oh we used it" 8 packets of lube to put in 10 bushings...I was pretty pissed.
Thankfully, somewhat, there was so much excess I could scrape it off and use it for the inserts.
Then they lost the directions which I gave to them to verify orientation. I was going to put the inserts in myself.
I called Pfadt and they said they'd email them to me but never showed up. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that my firewall at work grabbed it because it was zipped but long story short, no way for me to get the car done for my last event of the year.
I can have it moving easy enough but I have to get it aligned, corner weighted, etc...
02-23-2008, 08:14 PM
#11
Safety Car
I don't mind doing that to my burnt up lowers, but my upper boots are in great shape. :-) Saw your note in the other thread about the pitman arm separator so I'll have to hit up Pep Boys/Kragan again tomorrow.
Any thoughts on using a 3" gear puller? One of the two arm models?
Any thoughts on using a 3" gear puller? One of the two arm models?
02-23-2008, 08:32 PM
#12
Former Vendor
I was using the heat method, propane instead of MAP but now I have both, it was kind of slow going then I remembered putting in bushings in another project car a couple of years back using this.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38335
Actually mine is at least 10 years old and was purchased from a big name tool supplier at 6 times the price, same exact kit, pays to shop around
I drilled some 1/4" holes around the sleave to loosen things up and then use the C clamp press, substituting a few things as needed, popped right out and new ones right in. A couple on the rear were tough to get started, the damper ones in particular, I have not done the front yet, will do after I finish setting up the lift I am installing, got the posts mounted today, whew!!!
Rick
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=38335
Actually mine is at least 10 years old and was purchased from a big name tool supplier at 6 times the price, same exact kit, pays to shop around
I drilled some 1/4" holes around the sleave to loosen things up and then use the C clamp press, substituting a few things as needed, popped right out and new ones right in. A couple on the rear were tough to get started, the damper ones in particular, I have not done the front yet, will do after I finish setting up the lift I am installing, got the posts mounted today, whew!!!
Rick
03-02-2008, 11:24 PM
#13
Safety Car
Well, that was one of the least enjoyable DIY wrenching experiences I've had. The Pfadt kit was excellent, and the bushings are nice. And as I went along this got better/easier, but... WOW. Sticky, stinky, messy.
* When you heat them and you think they're hot enough to push out -- they're not, heat them a little longer.
* You really want a press; your typical bench vice *barely* opens wide enough.
* You really want a press; your typical bench vice contact pads aren't wide/tall enough to keep the bushing/arms from trying to jump.
* A 2 1/4" hole saw and a hockey puck turn out to create a good piece if you're looking for something to press in to.
* You want a whole box of latex gloves.
* You want mechanix gloves for holding the warm/hot A-arms.
* Safety glasses and long sleeves for flying molten rubber.
* When you push out the first two piece sleeve from the front, keep the long piece, it makes a great ram for pushing out all the other sleeves.
* The comments about having a fan around are true. I also kept a spray bottle full of water, and, of course, a fire extinguisher.
It took me from noon until about 5pm to do the fronts, that was pulling them off the car, separating the ball joints, doing all the bushings, replacing ball joint boots, and rehanging the suspension.
It took me from about 11am until about 6pm to pull the rear suspension, do everything, put it back on, and clean up.
By the end of each day I was bagged, so everything needs to be checked and re-checked. I had a shop estimate 6-8 hours (including alignment) and I was out there for about 12 hours without alignment. So figure your weekend goes to the bushings and then you'll still have some work to do.
* When you heat them and you think they're hot enough to push out -- they're not, heat them a little longer.
* You really want a press; your typical bench vice *barely* opens wide enough.
* You really want a press; your typical bench vice contact pads aren't wide/tall enough to keep the bushing/arms from trying to jump.
* A 2 1/4" hole saw and a hockey puck turn out to create a good piece if you're looking for something to press in to.
* You want a whole box of latex gloves.
* You want mechanix gloves for holding the warm/hot A-arms.
* Safety glasses and long sleeves for flying molten rubber.
* When you push out the first two piece sleeve from the front, keep the long piece, it makes a great ram for pushing out all the other sleeves.
* The comments about having a fan around are true. I also kept a spray bottle full of water, and, of course, a fire extinguisher.
It took me from noon until about 5pm to do the fronts, that was pulling them off the car, separating the ball joints, doing all the bushings, replacing ball joint boots, and rehanging the suspension.
It took me from about 11am until about 6pm to pull the rear suspension, do everything, put it back on, and clean up.
By the end of each day I was bagged, so everything needs to be checked and re-checked. I had a shop estimate 6-8 hours (including alignment) and I was out there for about 12 hours without alignment. So figure your weekend goes to the bushings and then you'll still have some work to do.