Cobra4B

I'm at a cross-roads here... my father and I have been shopping for a track day car and seriously considering returning my car to stock (cosmetically) and either putting a full T1 cage/suspension in it, or going with a professionally welded in SCCA legal roll-bar etc.

The lawsuit got me thinking... are we on the way to the HPDE hobby becomming cost-prohibitive and eventually going away?

I'd hate to "invest" 10k in my car only to have a worthless caged C5 w/ nowhere to use it and no demand for the car (T1 has mostly moved on to C6s).

Not trying to be chicken little here... just trying to use some judgement before spending a good chunk of money.

Discuss.

John Shiels

When I ran in offshore boat racing we usually had the World Championship in Key West. Most every year you could look around the room and know by the time the three races were over someone was not going to be here when it was over out of 120-140 boats. They would print up a sticker overnight and your name was on everyones boat the next race. One or even three were killed 90% of the time. Then you have testing and other race accidents during the rest of the year. It still continued to go on.

Insurance companies can make a profit they will continue to write coverage and people will organize events to make profit.

Go for it!

Cobra4B

^ Yes but would you still run HPDEs at $600, $800, $1000 a pop? I couldn't. That's pretty horrific about the boat racing, but that was professional racing was it not?

John Shiels

yes but drag boats were worse. One year out of 30 boats 6 got killed or somehing horrific number like that. Then they went to capsules which stopped it.

600 for an event, yes I would have to do less of them. Thousand yes if my business was cranking well but less of them. It is an addiction that I can't do on the street.

I was going to start a thread about cost of HPDE over the years vs inflation. I think when I started it was 175 in PDA in 98. Now next year I see 300 for most events. Things usually double every 10 years so it may be right. Economy tanking may slow the price rise as I think people will not do as many.

Boat racing is about gone due to cost. Where there were 120-140 boats at St. Pete years ago this year I saw 35 with not many smaller boats and teams. Some classes are like the C6R two three boats no chance to not get a trophy. I used to race against 15 boats with 6-8 real competitive boats it is all gone now

Cobra4B

^ Interesting... In the past 5 years I've noticed HPDEs have gone up from mid 200's to right aroudn 400 for most now. All due to rising costs of insurance from what I hear? That or the increased popularity = increased demand = higher price tolerance.

The past few HPDEs I've done this year weren't full... figured it's because of the issues w/ the economy etc... people don't have the disposable income to do it anymore or as much.

95jersey

We'll a couple things...

1) The real killer for HPDE will be the auto insurance companies. There are many that will not insure your car at HPDE. Fortunately, mine does. The day they stop, I will first try to move that car to another policy I can find which still supports HPDE, the day I can no longer find a company that provides coverage under a "regular" street policy to support HPDE...I am done (at least using corvette's). There is NO WAY IN H#LL, I am ever going to pay for those "track" policies. You know, the ones that are like $500-$1000+ per event and only cover 70% the value of your car. This is the dumbest waste of money in my opinion. The day I can no longer find insurance, I either walk away from the sport or buy a $5000 miata that I can afford to walk away from 100% and live with it.

2) An umbrella policy is a smart idea for all of us! If you have your car and homeowner under 1 company it cost very little to upgrade to a $1M umbrella, which is a good idea to have these days for just more than HPDE.

I would just bite the bullet and continue with the car you have and drive something cheap and economical on the street. I mean after doing HPDE on R compounds, does any street driving even come close? Do you really need a Corvette on the street after driving 9/10th's on world class race tracks?

Right now I am using a new C6Z06 and have the best of both worlds, but I sacrafice safety as I will not put a cage or seats or any mods that will harm the value of the car. So, personally, I plan to run the Z for another season, be as careful as possible, use my years of experience to play smart and keep out of trouble, and then move on. This C6Z06 is faster than I ever wanted or need to go on a racetrack in my lifetime! So some day, I will just say, been there done that, time to move on.

In some ways I am at a similar crossroad, I have simply come to the conclusion, that I will NEVER spend the money to do a Corvette the RIGHT way for the track, and continuing to drive a 500rwhp Z06 at 160mph without a cage and full safety gear is going to catch up with me one day. Also, I will never pay $1000 day for track insurance on a $65k car. So, in a year, I will sell the Z, be happy about the experience and move onto something that is more precise and slower, that is fun but is not going 150mph down every 500ft straitaway. Sad to say, this will probably be my last Corvette, as I stated, if I am not driving one at the track, I have NO use for one on the street.

Whatever your decision, good luck and be safe. Just remember whatever you think the project car will cost you...double it and if you can live with that, go for it, if not get a few more years out of your car the way it is and move on.

Cobra4B

^ Interesting... my issue is I bleed Corvette... I will always have one. I agree about the fast car on the street... I don't need one, can't use it. However, I love cruising and going to shows etc.

My "plan" is to trackerize my Z06 and eventally take posession of my mother's '99 vert to do all my fun waxer things. Taking the GF crusing w/ the top down is far more fun than bumping round w/ the cam and poly bushings.

John Shiels

better check the umbrellas as they too will not cover track events in many cases.

Cobra4B

^ Ugh... need to look into that.

SouthernSon

True, the exclusions to certain items of coverage grow by leaps and bounds every year! Whatever one may have understood about coverage a couple of years ago probably has changed!

95jersey

Can't say I disagree with your comments. I have owned 4 Corvette's up to now. I bleed Corvette SO BAD, that I spent $65k on a Z06, how nuts is that! I would NEVER have ever thought I would buy a car worth that kind of money, but I did. I have no regrets, but I realize this is a temporary solution to a long term hobby. My situation is different, as I have been married with a son for 6 years now. So if I am not doing track days, I am LITERALLY driving a mini-van or family car. My car sits in the garage all weekend, and maybe I drive it once to work every few weeks. So, I can see how you would get more use out of the street car!

The safety thing has been eating me up, especially with a car SO fast. It really hit me that I was really starting to fly in this car when I blew by a brand new Viper like he was a Camry at Pocono. Another time at WG when I passed one of those NASCAR Truck things. I did the east course at Pocono a few weeks ago and only needed to get out of second gear on the back strait. This thing is just ridiculous fast and while I will never forget the experience, I also want to live to never forget the experience. I think I have matured enough over 7 track seasons, to now appreciate slowing down a driving a better handling car. I have always said, I enjoy going 39.9999mph through a 40mph turn that goint 150mph down the back strait.

I have been doing lots of research on Lotus Elise's and are thinking that may be my next logical step in another year. You can pick them up in great condition used for $30k or less, they only weight 1950lbs, and they now have a factory warrantied supercharger option for $5000k that brings the power of the car up to 265hp (crank). That puts the power to weight ratio very close to a new Z51 or even Z06. Also, you no longer have 500hp or 3200lbs to wear down tires, brake pads, rotors and other consumables. Those guys talk about race pads lasting well over a season or two as well as rotors and tires. This all under hard track conditions. The Toyota motor is bullet proof and the car is simple. So, you have a car that will have equal or better corner speed than a Corvette, with a factory supercharger will be no slouch in the straits, and I can pocket $30k and be done with it.

Racer-38

I think when you HPDE a corvette, porsche, ferrari, viper ....you are in a dilema. Even if you only drive at 80% of the cars potential you are still traveling pretty damn fast. So you obviously want to be safe...but don't want to destroy the value of the car..so what do you do?
I think every other racer on this forum will tell you.."Its not IF you are going to hit something.....its WHEN are you going to hit something"
So to me....if you are going to go track events in a high speed car like this with any sort of frequncy, put in the full roll cage, the seat, the HANS..hell, I'd even put in a fire system. Then god forbid something does happen, at least you should be okay.
So COBRA4B..to answer your question, I would return your car (cosmetically) to its original condition, sell it if you need to, and buy one of these "outdated" C5 T1 cars that are floating around. You will enjoy yourself SOOOOOOOOOO much more and be safer in the process.
Good Luck.

Cobra4B

^ Not in my case... my car is so far modde, has many miles, and rockers are blasted that it's cheaper for me to cage my car than try and sell it somehow. I wouldn't get 25k for it... maybe, but it'd take forever to find the right buyer.

T1 cars are 35-40k... for 10k I can do full T1 cage + suspension... so it makes more sense for me to go that route.

gpm30236

You have your answer there to the track day question,

Cobra4B

^ Yes... I do... just need to pull the trigger and begin the transformation of both cars. I'm really wanting a vert again badly