Silverton

I'm having trouble making a decision between the ST-60 and the SL6 front BBKs, both with 14" Stoptech rotors, for my '07 Z51 Coupe. The pad thickness is 18mm for the ST-60 and 16.5mm (pad type 7416) for the SL6. Not much difference there.

The key questions seem to be: (1) pad cost, and (2) pad life. The Wilwood H-type pads cost approx. $175. The ST-60 pads are much more expensive: the Carbotech XP10 pads cost approx. $280, while the Hawk DTC-70 pads cost approx. $330. And, get this, the PFC-01 pads for the ST-60 cost over $400 (I've seen prices as high as $500)!

On this forum, the Wilwood H-pads have a reputation for having a very long life. Since the ST-60 pads cost twice as much (for the Hawk DTC-70), or even more (for the PFC-01), do they last twice as long?

AU N EGL

between the two I would choose the ST-60 caliper.

Pads, would depend on how that caliper works. The Wilwood H, DTC-60 or the PFC-1 are all top brake pads. You would be happy with any one of those three, so go for the least expensive of these

No pads that cost twice as much do not last twice as long

Z06Fix

I would choose the ST-60 setup and run the Carbotech pads. That would be an awsome combo.

gkmccready

I chose to run the SL6_R_ with the 20mm pads and a brake caliper bracket that lets me run the stock base C6 rotors. The rotor replacement cost and being able to run the thicker pads helped my decision. I did end up getting CCWs to clear the wider calipers up front, though.

If I had bigger bucks I'd look at the PFC zr33 caliper and Hardbar 14" replacement rotors, though...

John Shiels

I would not bother with the Wilwood thin caliper. I would do the SL6R with stock or Stoptech 13" rotors or go with the ST-60 & 14 or 15" rotors. 500 for pads

AU N EGL

Yes but those pads are what almost 1/2" thick? EACH side

gkmccready

http://www.zeckhausen.com/StopTech/ST60_pads.htm
18mm thick, 3.16in tall, 5.98in wide. DTC-70 $347.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/catalog...20mm-thick.htm
Wilwood SL6R uses Type 7420 pads that are 20mm thick, 2.42in tall, 5.25in wide. DTC-70 $154.

So it's probably a wash in the end, outside of price.

John Shiels

Wilwood has much more material per dollar It also has more usable thichness as no matter what a pads thickness you are still going to leave .20" at the least on the backing plate. I think the Wilwood pad is cheaper because it is such a common pad shape.

0RAAMaudio

Another thing to consider is how stiff the caliper is, the stiffer the better as less flex will eat less pad.

How much mass is there pulling heat out of the pads through the caliper and more importantly how much heat can the rotors deal with as well.

I have used Wilwood brakes and considered them for my race car but did not find much feedback on how well they would work compared to the Stoptechs for this particular application.

I recently talked to two drivers of Vettes that raced a great deal this season and one ran the same pads and rotors all year and they were still doing well. The other ran almost the full season and only changed for Nationals and said he probably could of run on the same pads and rotors there as well. I am building a car to the same specs except starting out the next class down with less power until I feel I can drive well enough to play at their level, if ever!

Both were using the ST60 Stoptechs up front, I decided to go with them though pretty expensive and pads are as well but looking at the big picture, very cost effective

Rick

Silverton

That's really what this thread is about: efficiency, or how cost effective. If the pads (the consumable here) are twice (or more) as expensive, will they deliver twice the pad life? Doesn't matter if the caliper is "better" or "more stiff" (therefore, less pad taper?), it's all about pad life.

I was ready to get in on the LGM SL6 wide caliper GP thinking that I could use a 14" rotor. Not. How much does rotor diameter help in increasing pad life?

John Shiels

The larger rotor would help rotor life more as it would not get as hot and have biigger wear surface. If the rotor is running cooler that would extend pad life also I would assume. I originally looked at 14" rotors but then my 17" wheels would need to be replaced which was more money. I have found the 13" Wilwood setup great for price and consumables. I get the rotors glowing and they still work great.

If I was building a car to race not HPDE I would go with the bigger ST-60 setup but when your racing money is less of a concern.

I have not seen anyone run the Wilwood vs the ST-60 to begin to get a decent comparison on the same car driver combo. If I was racing I know I could over run the Wilwoods capacity in a longer stint. HPDE events I never felt out done with the Wilwoods.

Are you racing will the wheels take the 14"?


People racing use the brakes less and carry more speed, you are not waiting for point-bys, and the cars are closely matched unlike a HPDE so less use.

One persons brakes will last 20 events and the next guy 10 due to driving speed and style. You cannot have to much brake.

Silverton

I'll be purchasing CCW C10 (Corsair) wheels in 18x10 or 18x11 for the front only. I'm pretty sure I can run 295/30-18 tires at the front, but that's another thread.

I'll easily grant that the ST-60 BBK is better, and it does cost about $600-$700 more than the SL6 w/14" Stoptechs. I'm sure that in an endurance race the ST-60 would be the absolute best. But that's not what I need it for. I just want to have fun at the track, and I don't want to worry about the brakes.

It simply doesn't make sense to me that the ST-60 pads are twice the cost of the Wilwood H-pads which are known to be very good pads that last a very long time. Could it be that the H-type pads (16.5mm thick) with SL6 calipers (14" Stoptech rotors) will last nearly as long as Carbotech XP-10 or Hawk DTC-70 pads (18mm thick) with ST-60 calipers (14" rotors)? If the pad life were directly proportional to pad width (for the same rotors), the SL6/H-pad life would be almost 92% of the ST-60 pad life!

gkmccready

If that's your only concern, have you contacted Wilwood to see if they'd build an H compound pad in the ST-60 pad shape?

trackboss

Having run race cars with both 13" stoptech st-40 caliper combo and 13.5" rotors with sierra calipers that use the same PFC 7751 pad as the wilwoods I can say the stoptechs provide better braking and longer pad and rotor life. The 7751 (pfc# for the wilwoods)pads are common stock car pads. Lots of calipers use them so they are dirt cheap and very thick. The stoptech pad fitment is thinner and about 2 times more expensive for pfc pads. Although using a thinner pad I found the stoptechs to go through pads much less frequently. The wilwood calipers mentioned above are not in the same ballpark as any of the pricier wilwood calipers or the stoptech calipers. ST-40/60 is a much more rigid caliper. SL6 are decent calipers, but wimpy by comparison. In my opinion the stoptech setup is a much better performer in every way than than the wilwood kit.

Sean@OCCorvette

Stoptech! We run them for full seasons without issues.

John Shiels

I would imagine that having a bigger pad surface and rotor they should last longer on the ST. My Wilwoods pads lasted 1000 track only miles and would probabaly have made near double that if the bearing on one side didn't fail. Your doing HPDE I wouldn't worry that much about pad life. What are you running now and how many miles do you get on them?

RAFTRACER

Hell, if people can use the same brake pads and rotors all year, I might as well join the Jones'. Who were these people who ran the same rotors and pads all year ?????.

I only ran about half a season this year, but my brake consumables where at least 4-5 car sets. My car has stock brakes , with fronts in the rear and Hawk DTC70 pads...My car does not seem to be lacking in the deceleration department, as I was able to brake as well as any at Nationals....Including outbraking the Porsche cup car time after time Saturday.

I have been contemplating doing something with the brakes over our off-season. Brake pad costs are what they are , and with big brake packages brake pad thickness is greater hence the extra cost. My problem is rotors life. Going from $30-35 @ NAPA rotors to $250+ rotor cost scares me. I would have to almost be guaranteed that the rotors will last 8 times longer to take the plunge.....

Interested in hearing more..

fmrfast

Until the last 10 or so laps of a race when the guy right behind who is closely matched in speed is pushing you to the late brake limit trying to pass...... Only then will you find the limit of that brake package you chose & how deep you can really go. That's when the pucker factor kicks in!

Silverton

Thanks for all your help!

96CollectorSport

Danny, Sawtelle ran all year on the same set of StopTech rotors, he did go through a few sets of pads though. I have another customer that ran 9 weekend (his whole season) with one set of StopTech rotors and we are still going to use them next year. Jeff Jorgensen (NASA Midwest HPDE 1-2 lead instructor) ran all seaon with the same set of rotors and pads on his C6 Z. He admitted that he was taking it esay on the brakes and has adopted a "long and light" approch over the "wait till you see God then brake really hard" approach. But however you look at it the StopTech 355mmx32mm rotor lasts!

Now back on the decision between the Wilwood SL6 or StopTech ST-60 if you are worried about pad prices the StopTech ST-40 caliper makes a lot more sence in my opinion, yes it's only a 4 piston caliper but the pads are (on average) $100 per set cheaper and you are not giving up much at all. The ST-60 pad has a little larger surface area, which should help the longevity of the pad but that is about it.

I've installed and serviced both the ST-40 and the ST-60 set-ups and if I were to pop the money for the kit I would go ST-40 over the ST-60 anyday. Plus it's easier to push 4 pistons in than 6, it's not a big deal but it is easier.
Check out the ST-40 I think you will be glad you did.