5rings

Hey guys as an adjunct to the T1 thread posted below (I initially looked at T1), I am looking into ST2 and wondered what kind of setup is needed to be competitive. I have read the rules and, if I understand them, there seems to be considerable latitude for cars, motors, tires etc. But I suspect that is only part of the story. Certainly not every setup is competitive. What am I missing? (besides brains, money and experience)

I currently own a 2000 FRC and would like to start with that while I get my feet wet, then jump to a newer car when I feel like my driving skills and competitive nature warrant more car. Would I be wasting my time to throw money into my FRC or would be better off jump to a C6 or Z06 right out of the gate? (keep in mind money is always in short supply at my house)

Thanks
Steve

AU N EGL

the Power to wt ratio is the biggest factor in ST2.

Too many engine mods and that may kick your power up to the lower end of ST1. Not a good place to be.

Converting your FRC to a SCCA T1 or NASA ST2 would be a great place to start.

Jaymz

Steve...

Good question... The FRC is a great car to start with. I can assume that the car will have all of the standard safety stuff, cage, nets. etc.

The FRC is as capable of a ST2 car as a C5 Z06. Things I would recommend.. Get the power/weight to the limit: 8.7:1 (This includes you in the car when it's weighed) This can be done as easily as a cam and headers on a LS1.

For your car I would do some nice springs/shocks/swaybars. T1 stuff is ok but there are better parts out there. VBP makes some great springs. Koni or Penske shocks, and Addco or Pfadt bars.

This is the best part about ST. Is that you can take what ever car you have and make it fit the rule book the way you want to.

mrc24x

Everything above is great advice. Another idea (and cheaper) is to build your frc to PTB or PTA specs. A well setup FRC in PTA is the hot ticket IMO.

NASA also has Time Trial classes that are based on the same rules as Performance Touring (PT) and Super Touring (ST1 or ST2). If you don't have all of the safety requirements (cage / harness....) for w2w then you can still get on track w/ TT and learn the ropes.

I also agree w/ James that you should sign up for the April Comp. School at MidOhio. That's the quickest way to get your TT and Comp license. (plus the track is )

Matt Carlyle
NASA #26 PTA /ST2

Falcon

Add as much lightness to the car as it can possibly stand. As James says the key is 8.7:1. It's much cheaper and reliable to gut the car and remove whatever weight you don't need to get to that magic ratio. After you've removed what you can, do the engine mods. The suspension mods need to be done regardless of what else ever you do to the car.

Come on down to Carolina Motorsports Park in Feb with NASA South East and go to the Competition school on Friday and have your provisional license by the end of the day, and race that weekend.

0RAAMaudio

Great advice, very best one is "add lightness" as you will see below that is exactly what has highest priority on my list.


I bought an 02 Z06 T1 that was partially setup for ST2 and am taking it all the way maxed out ST1 but with ST2 power for now. This is my first Vette, tracked it once then started on my huge winter mod list. In the end I am saving allot of money but also will have a pretty large sum invested yet I wish I had started with a stock car because I love modding my cars, doing everything myself more.

Starting with your FRC is a great way to go and one I wish I had done now that it is too late to turn back.

At the NASA events they run HPDE, TT and the races so you can work your way up like I am doing yet be around all the others ahead of you and learn from them. I will part of a three car team, starting in HPDE then TT as soon as I get the ok to step up to that level. After that I will run as many events as I can, taking my time to ensure I am really ready and willing to be competitive and actually find out if I have the talent or not.

I agree, headers, x pipe, intake, may not even need a tune!

Weight is very important, the more more the car weighs the less HP allowed but I am making mine very very low in weight and building torque oriented engine. Take all the weight off up high and weight outside the axles, front and rear of the car, move the battery to the rear, headlights weigh 26lbs, get them out of there unless you plan on night racing, etc.......... weight is, always has been, always will be the number one enemy of performance.

Camber kit is a must, sways, I bit the bullet and went with all the Pfadt parts I could run, costly but worth it compared to the other products on the market. (to be out in the open on this, I am establishing a relationship with them but picked their parts before that was even considered They have a nice set of coilovers for a reasonable cost as well, I would of run them if my car did not come with a new set of Motons(I would of had a very hard time spending that kind of money on coilovers but came as part of the deal so using them)

Big ticket item, something you can wait on, brakes. The stock ones can work very well but you must have cooling ducts to the fronts at a bare minimum. The deal with the stock brakes is allot of maintenance and money if you really get into this as they do not last long at all. I bit that bullet right off and bought 6/4 pot Stoptechs, glad I did after talking to two racers that tour, run allot of events, etc, one on the same pads and rotors all season, the other changed pads only for the Nationals just to be sure they lasted the 40 minutes. That is astounding service life in a car as fast as an ST1 Vette! In the end saves money and all the time messing with the brakes, wondering if they will last, carrying around a bunch of spares, and no where as good a setup

A very good seat(I bought a Racetech RT4000HR though the car came with a new Sparco, I like the Racetech better) a very good cage, harnesses, window net, etc, get the good stuff, worth every dime.

I have to get back to work, the boss will be on my **** soon if not(I am the boss. Many more important things to consider but here is one very critical one.

Spend your money wisely, this is expensive, build a well balanced car with handling having priority over power, keep the bling to an absolute minimum, avoid marketing hype, pay top dollar where you should and as low as possible where you can safely and reliably do so. Many used parts available, carefully tread in this area but great bargains can be found.

Have fun!

Rick

0Randy@DRM

I have been looking into this class. Can the Cobra kit cars be beat??? They look to be very light, some power and running small tires, which can be very fast.

Randy

Jaymz

[QUOTE=Randy@DRM;1563324210 Can the Cobra kit cars be beat???
Randy[/QUOTE]

I out qualified Tony Buffomante a couple of times last year. He is a very good driver. I was trying to not show my hand the whole year in the race. In August I was out in front and not looking back when I had my two rear Hoosiers go away 4-5 laps into the race.

I am sure that they can be beat. I believe that our cars have better aero. We can use aero devices and the FFR can't (without taking a penalty). They don't have ABS either.

They are light and nimble and can pass without alot of room. Next summer will be very interesting.

AU N EGL

Tony Buffomante is a DARN GOOD driver too.

He had is FFC up for sale too. Wonder if he sold it and what he will race next year?

spazegun2213

I think he sold it, but i think he has another he will race this year. I hope to mix it up with him and wally and the other st2 guys this year.

I agree with everything thats been said and I'll add the suspension wise, the GM t1 kit is a great place to start. I know wally has been kicking some serious *** and he is on all gm stuff.

One thing I'm really REALLY considering getting the wilwood setup for my car when i get it. The stock brakes are not that great due to their frailty (may as well replace the calipers once a season) and the pad wear sucks.

An FRC is a great place to start, although i will say that building a car is a LOT more expensive than buying one. I just took the plunge on a T1 car, thats not the best, but its cheaper than building just about any vette. Its also the winter so great time to look for cars. Good luck!

Falcon

Yea, Tony Buffomante is a great driver regardless of what he drives. It looked like James had him covered in August, but tires proved the Achilles heel.

But Tony is not the only Factory Five driver who is potent. Brian Cates is a take no prisoners kind of driver and he is faster than hell. Sometimes he risks it all and pays the price, but sometimes it works for him.

Another FF driver who is hard to stay in front of is Paul Kaiser. Paul also drives an ex-Grand Am CTSV Caddy that will absolutely fly. Most of you guys haven't raced against Paul or Brian, but they're almost as tough as Tony.

Brian and Paul drive in the Mid-Atlantic region, so, Ross, you and Wally will have your hands full.

As James said, those FF's have great visibility and those drivers can put them into places we C5's guys could only dream about.

DO NOT underestimate them, they will wear you out!

And, yes, Tony did sell his FF Cobra. Look for it to appear with a new driver.

wallyman424

I'm pretty sure tony moved to the ohio region, so we might not have to deal with him regionally.

also, brian and paul are a bunch of fun to go up against.

davidfarmer

You'll love ST2. You can only get the weight of a C5/C6 down to around 3050lbs (without buy lots of carbon, removing the roof, or other extreme measures), which means a stock LS6 gives you about the perfect power-to-weight ratio. I took the roof and hatch off of my car, got it down another 100lbs, and am running a stock LS1 relatively competitively.

The C6/C5 vettes are extremely good cars, cheap to build for the class, and cheap to maintain. You'll love NASA ST2!

2000BSME

5rings

Guys, thanks for all of the input. You have brightened my perspective and prospects considerably.

I already had the Pfadt sways and coilovers on my shopping list. My car has a cam and SLP exhaust, but no long tubes yet. The cage, seats and net are a given.

Now on to the sequence of events...

1. I appreciate the invites and certainly could make Mid-Ohio or Carolina, but Atlanta is closer. Is one event better than the other?

2. What must be done to the car to legally attend the school? I may not have a cage or suspension installed by Feb-March.

3. Is the HPDE a separate event from the ST2? In other words do I initially attend HPDEs and then work my way up to ST2 at a later date or do you do both?

4. Anybody got used parts they dont need or cheap sources of afore mentioned bits?

5. How many of you will be in attendance at these events and available for copious questions and tips?

Sorry for all of the questions but I have entered race classes before and found I did many things wrong that cost me money and setbacks. I always think knowledge is power (I am a school teacher) and the more questions that get answered now the better off I will be on track day.

When I joined this forum I wrote a comment about the great attitude and comraderie to be found here. I am still am member of "European Marque" forums and there are people on those forums who eat their children. No such issue here. I am still impressed with the members here and I remain confident that a Corvette was the right choice. To those of you who make this so much fun, thanks a million! I hope you know what a good thing you have going here.

Steve

AU N EGL

1. Cage and Fire suppression installed before you can go to Comp School.

2. NASA's Comp Schools "like" ppl to have ~ 10 HPDE weekends before going though comp school. Not Mandatory, however, track time is great.

YES NASA Has HPDEs along with races each weekend.

3. Download the NASA CCR http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules.html and Super Touring Rules - same page




http://www.nasa-southeast.com/ South East

http://www.nasaracing.net/ Mid Atlantic


The Corvette Community is a great place, both on the Forums and at the Track.

Oh we also eat Furren Marques too. What do you think Southern BBQs are for???

Falcon

Steve, I attend a bunch of NASA events so maybe I can shed some light and relieve some anxiety for you.

Track events are like sex, there ain't no bad ones. You come away from all of them with a smile on your face.

Just because you go to one doesn't exclude the other one. Do like many of us, and go to all of them.

I'll be at the Carolina and Atlanta events, but can't make the M-O race in April. I'll probably be there for the July event.


As Tom said, you're going to need a cage, and all other equipment you'd need to pass race tech. New in July of '07 we were required to have some sort of right side head restraint either in the form of a net or a side bolster on our seat.

New in July of '08, we'll be required to have some sort of Head and Neck restraint system, i.e. Hans, R3, etc.

They occur at separate times on track, but during the same weekend. NASA has 4 levels of HPDE's (1,2,3, & 4) plus racing (which includes ST2).

You can start at your appropriate level of HPDE and over time work your way into racing. I don't know how much experience you have so I can't say how long that would be.

Keep in mind, we all want to be safe out there and track experience and track awareness helps ensure that.

Keep an eye peeled here for items that might be of interest. Also, in the "C5 Parts For Sale" section of this forum.

I'm at all the NASA Southeast and Mid Atlantic (At VIR) events, so feel free to stop by and ask as many questions as you'd like.

I remember to this day how intimidating it was at the first few track events I went to. I felt like a babe in the woods. It turned out everyone was as friendly and helpful as could be. And that was at those foreign car events. Seems like the same people are at all these events every week regardless of their car marque.

Hope that helps you, and if you have any other questions concerning NASA racing or HPDE's, I, along with many others here, will be more than happy to help you along the way, either here or at the track.

gkmccready

Somebody should outline basic costs...

Drivers Gear

• Helmet (SA2005) $370-$xxxx
• Head and Neck Restraint $800-$xxxx
• Suit $300-$xxxx
• Shoes $100
• Gloves $70
• Underwear+Socks $100

I'm not sure I'd pick some of the low-end on the safety equipment...

Car Gear

• Cage $3000-$xxxxx
• Fire Extinguisher $100 + Mount $75
• Fire System $350 (This was optional last I knew)
• Seat $300-$xxxx + Seat Mount $325
• Harness $105-$425 (Cheap Simpsons Latch+Link or TeamTech JetPilot)
• Window Net $25 + Mounting Kit $25
• Right-side net $70

Don't forget labor to put all the car gear in to the car. And I'm probably forgetting something or many things. And I've tried to pick the low-end of the prices. Assuming the rest of the car is in good shape, I *think* that would be about the minimum to get a log book and pass tech.
That's not the be competitive, that's just to get on-track.

The above assumes you have a tow vehicle and trailer because there's certainly no guarantee your race car, which will pretty much be unstreetable, will come home in one piece. :-)

Now, HPDE or a track day, you can do that with just the car and a helmet... you're not racing against anybody, you're just out there having a good time.

I don't even think the Time Trial guys require anything more than the car and a helmet, and that sure looks like a good stepping stone for moving into the wheel-to-wheel classes.

I really want a super fast racecar, too, but you might consider something like Spec Miata before jumping into the Corvette. For the price of preparing the Corvette with safety equipment you can probably find yourself a Spec Miata with logbook ready to go racing. :-) Throw in a new set of CCWs and Hoosier to that budget and you can probably find a nice SM and trailer. :-)

Falcon

You're right, GKM, it is costly. It costs a lot regardless of what you race, but some are more expensive than others. How fast do you want to go? Well, how big is your checkbook.

I have to agree with Brad (Subdriver) as he wrote in the other thread, "If you can afford it, and by that I mean walk away from the financial implications of totaling your car, and you want to do it, my suggestion is to go for it!"

0Randy@DRM

Last night I watched some videos of all the different cars in the class. They all look like they play nice with each other. It's funny to see the Cobra leaving the viper coming out of the corner, but then the viper passing it at the end of the straight. Good racing!!!

Randy