Diesel on the way for everything!
01-02-2008, 05:40 AM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Diesel on the way for everything!
Tuesday, January 1, 2008
Big 3 go after diesel market
Eric Morath / The Detroit News
Recently passed energy legislation that mandates 40 percent fuel efficiency increases on automakers has them looking toward a technology that's existed for years -- diesel.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have committed to a diesel option in the next generation of their light-duty pickups, which are the best-selling vehicles in each of their lineups. If all goes well and more consumers accept diesels as an option, the technology could expand beyond trucks.
Adding diesels will help the automakers reach the fleet-wide, industry average of 35 miles per gallon signed into law by President Bush on Dec. 19. But they'll have to work hard at selling the public on diesel's benefits.
Advertisement
Diesel engines can improve a vehicle's fuel efficiency 30 percent; the fuel is readily available and millions of people drive diesels daily. Diesel engines also have a decades-longer track record than hybrids and are the choice among about half of all European car buyers.
But, in the United States diesels haven't caught on, and account for only 3.2 percent of the domestic light vehicle market.
That's due in large part to European emissions rules and a tax structure which favors diesels there. In the United States, until recently, diesel fuel refining rules made it hard to have a 50-state standard. But with consistency in low-sulfur diesel fuel regulations and the newly passed energy legislation, Detroit's automakers are making a push into the diesel market.
It's not an easy sell. U.S. diesel vehicles are not widely available, have had difficulty meeting emission standards, are more expensive and face the dated stigma of smelly, noisy, sooty engines of the 1970s and 1980s.
Chrysler's Jeep Grand Cherokee is the only model, outside of medium-duty pickups, with a diesel option among all three American automaker's lineups. And that vehicle can't be sold in California or the seven other states that have adopted stricter emissions standards than what's set by the federal government.
Experts foresee diesel growth
Diesel's prospects, however, appear poised to outpace its challenges in the coming years.
J.D. Power and Associates predicts the diesel market will more than double to 1.27 million units by 2012, and others in the industry expect diesel to make up 15 percent of the total automotive market within the decade.
"If we have to get 35 miles per gallon by 2020, we can't maintain the current makeup of the fleet," said Mike Omotoso, J.D. Power's senior manager of global powertrain. "With continuing high gas prices, consumers are looking for vehicles with good fuel economy, and that's where diesel can deliver."
Diesel technology is far from new. German engineer Rudolf Diesel patented his version of the powertrain in 1893. The basic difference between gasoline and diesel engines is that diesels don't have spark plugs to ignite the air-fuel mixture.
Diesel engines compress the mixture to the point where it combusts on its own. Diesel is a thicker, less refined petroleum product than gasoline, and contains more energy per gallon -- meaning you can drive further on diesel than on gas.
Like their hybrid cousins, diesel engines cost more than standard gas-fueled power plants. But despite the seasonal fluctuations in diesel fuel prices, the payoff for consumers may come sooner.
For a motorist who drives 12,000 miles per year, it would take fewer than four years for the $1,655 diesel option to pay for itself on the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited -- assuming diesel and gas fuel prices average $3 per gallon. By comparison, hybrid premiums of about $5,000 take far longer to pay for themselves.
Consumers must calculate if potentially higher fuel costs and a more expensive vehicle will be offset by better fuel economy. Forcing consumers to do that math is a significant barrier to the appeal of diesels, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.
"The economics are harder to make sense," he said. "Are you willing to pay a couple of thousand dollars more for better fuel economy?"
Cole, however, expects diesel use to expand, especially among truck and SUV buyers, where gasoline fuel economy is worse but consumer demand is high.
Diesel could let drivers achieve fuel economy gains without moving into a smaller car, said Christopher Qualters, director of diesel systems marketing at auto supplier Robert Bosch LLC. Bosch, a maker of diesel engine components and after treatments, predicts diesel will have a 15 percent stake in the U.S. market by 2015.
"Who wouldn't want to drive the same vehicle they have now, but get 30 percent better fuel economy?" he said. "You're not asking the driver to make a sacrifice."
Big Three's plans
Chrysler is pushing diesel as a fuel-saving alternative -- a lingering benefit of the automaker's former marriage with Daimler AG. Daimler provides the six-cylinder diesel engine for Grand Cherokees sold in the United States and provides engines for five models sold in Europe.
Chrysler lowered the cost of the diesel $1,000 for its 2008 Grand Cherokees. The option ranges in price from $1,010 to $3,235, depending on trim level and whether the vehicle is four-wheel drive.
"If it's priced right, we can sell diesel here," said Reg Modlin, Chrysler's director of environmental affairs. "Diesel can give you an immediate poke in fuel economy -- 20 to 40 percent. Not many technologies can deliver that today."
The Dodge Ram 1500 will offer a diesel for all 50 states after 2009. Modlin said the company is exploring whether other products could have diesel options, including cars. Ford has said future generations of its F-150 will.
GM also plans to bring diesel to its light-duty pickups, such as the Chevrolet Silverado 1500. That V-8 diesel will be capable of replacing any small block V-8 engine, meaning the diesel could easily fit into a GMC Yukon or Chevrolet Impala.
"The market is ripe, the question will be consumer confidence," said John Pinson, GM's group manager of diesel engineering. "You start with the engines that consume the most fuel, big pickups and SUVs, where the payoff for the customer is best."
And then you get people like Chuck Goolsbee of Arlington, Wash., to help sell the technology. Goolsbee, who owns two diesel vehicles, fell in love with diesels when he drove his 1980 Volkswagen Rabbit more than 500 miles from college in Lubbock, Texas, to Colorado, for rock climbing excursions.
"I could get there for about $9," he said, adding that he also appreciated diesel's durability. "Diesels last a long time."
Big 3 go after diesel market
Eric Morath / The Detroit News
Recently passed energy legislation that mandates 40 percent fuel efficiency increases on automakers has them looking toward a technology that's existed for years -- diesel.
General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co. and Chrysler LLC have committed to a diesel option in the next generation of their light-duty pickups, which are the best-selling vehicles in each of their lineups. If all goes well and more consumers accept diesels as an option, the technology could expand beyond trucks.
Adding diesels will help the automakers reach the fleet-wide, industry average of 35 miles per gallon signed into law by President Bush on Dec. 19. But they'll have to work hard at selling the public on diesel's benefits.
Advertisement
Diesel engines can improve a vehicle's fuel efficiency 30 percent; the fuel is readily available and millions of people drive diesels daily. Diesel engines also have a decades-longer track record than hybrids and are the choice among about half of all European car buyers.
But, in the United States diesels haven't caught on, and account for only 3.2 percent of the domestic light vehicle market.
That's due in large part to European emissions rules and a tax structure which favors diesels there. In the United States, until recently, diesel fuel refining rules made it hard to have a 50-state standard. But with consistency in low-sulfur diesel fuel regulations and the newly passed energy legislation, Detroit's automakers are making a push into the diesel market.
It's not an easy sell. U.S. diesel vehicles are not widely available, have had difficulty meeting emission standards, are more expensive and face the dated stigma of smelly, noisy, sooty engines of the 1970s and 1980s.
Chrysler's Jeep Grand Cherokee is the only model, outside of medium-duty pickups, with a diesel option among all three American automaker's lineups. And that vehicle can't be sold in California or the seven other states that have adopted stricter emissions standards than what's set by the federal government.
Experts foresee diesel growth
Diesel's prospects, however, appear poised to outpace its challenges in the coming years.
J.D. Power and Associates predicts the diesel market will more than double to 1.27 million units by 2012, and others in the industry expect diesel to make up 15 percent of the total automotive market within the decade.
"If we have to get 35 miles per gallon by 2020, we can't maintain the current makeup of the fleet," said Mike Omotoso, J.D. Power's senior manager of global powertrain. "With continuing high gas prices, consumers are looking for vehicles with good fuel economy, and that's where diesel can deliver."
Diesel technology is far from new. German engineer Rudolf Diesel patented his version of the powertrain in 1893. The basic difference between gasoline and diesel engines is that diesels don't have spark plugs to ignite the air-fuel mixture.
Diesel engines compress the mixture to the point where it combusts on its own. Diesel is a thicker, less refined petroleum product than gasoline, and contains more energy per gallon -- meaning you can drive further on diesel than on gas.
Like their hybrid cousins, diesel engines cost more than standard gas-fueled power plants. But despite the seasonal fluctuations in diesel fuel prices, the payoff for consumers may come sooner.
For a motorist who drives 12,000 miles per year, it would take fewer than four years for the $1,655 diesel option to pay for itself on the Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited -- assuming diesel and gas fuel prices average $3 per gallon. By comparison, hybrid premiums of about $5,000 take far longer to pay for themselves.
Consumers must calculate if potentially higher fuel costs and a more expensive vehicle will be offset by better fuel economy. Forcing consumers to do that math is a significant barrier to the appeal of diesels, said David Cole, chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann Arbor.
"The economics are harder to make sense," he said. "Are you willing to pay a couple of thousand dollars more for better fuel economy?"
Cole, however, expects diesel use to expand, especially among truck and SUV buyers, where gasoline fuel economy is worse but consumer demand is high.
Diesel could let drivers achieve fuel economy gains without moving into a smaller car, said Christopher Qualters, director of diesel systems marketing at auto supplier Robert Bosch LLC. Bosch, a maker of diesel engine components and after treatments, predicts diesel will have a 15 percent stake in the U.S. market by 2015.
"Who wouldn't want to drive the same vehicle they have now, but get 30 percent better fuel economy?" he said. "You're not asking the driver to make a sacrifice."
Big Three's plans
Chrysler is pushing diesel as a fuel-saving alternative -- a lingering benefit of the automaker's former marriage with Daimler AG. Daimler provides the six-cylinder diesel engine for Grand Cherokees sold in the United States and provides engines for five models sold in Europe.
Chrysler lowered the cost of the diesel $1,000 for its 2008 Grand Cherokees. The option ranges in price from $1,010 to $3,235, depending on trim level and whether the vehicle is four-wheel drive.
"If it's priced right, we can sell diesel here," said Reg Modlin, Chrysler's director of environmental affairs. "Diesel can give you an immediate poke in fuel economy -- 20 to 40 percent. Not many technologies can deliver that today."
The Dodge Ram 1500 will offer a diesel for all 50 states after 2009. Modlin said the company is exploring whether other products could have diesel options, including cars. Ford has said future generations of its F-150 will.
GM also plans to bring diesel to its light-duty pickups, such as the Chevrolet Silverado 1500. That V-8 diesel will be capable of replacing any small block V-8 engine, meaning the diesel could easily fit into a GMC Yukon or Chevrolet Impala.
"The market is ripe, the question will be consumer confidence," said John Pinson, GM's group manager of diesel engineering. "You start with the engines that consume the most fuel, big pickups and SUVs, where the payoff for the customer is best."
And then you get people like Chuck Goolsbee of Arlington, Wash., to help sell the technology. Goolsbee, who owns two diesel vehicles, fell in love with diesels when he drove his 1980 Volkswagen Rabbit more than 500 miles from college in Lubbock, Texas, to Colorado, for rock climbing excursions.
"I could get there for about $9," he said, adding that he also appreciated diesel's durability. "Diesels last a long time."
01-02-2008, 09:58 AM
#2
Team Owner
I love diesels. I get a chance to drive the 3 liter in the Grand Cherokee, and also in the 300 quite a bit and its a great engine.
The problem though are the diesel emissions laws which are short sighted. Passenger car diesel engines in '09 are required to meet an insanely low emissions standard even though they make us less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the cars in the US, and this is pass car only.
So auto manufacturers have to install a urea system to clean up th exhaust. A great idea in big rigs and semi's. Some politician thought it would be great to enforce urea over here since it works so well for semi's, and it does work well.
Problem being is its 10-15k for a big rig. Well for a big rig thats not a big deal. Your raising the price 4-5 percent for a super clean truck that will last 30+ years.
Applied to a pass car is stupid. 6K for the system, 7-8 year life cycle and a cost increase of nearly 25 percent on average.
All to save...nothing...there are not enough pass cars, nor will enough pass cars be sold in the next 5 years to make an environmental impact. I think if every diesel pass car is sold in the US there are only about 75K reaching the market every year.
A ground up engine design however does not require urea but does require a 5-7 year development time.
So now the car companies have to spend a ton of money to develop urea, take a loss on the cars because no one is going to pay 6K extra for a diesel engine on top of a diesels already higher cost instead of putting that money towards a new diesel engine.
Its short sighted and short term money wasted because urea is not going to be used once new engines are developed.
If they would have tied in new tiered diesel emissions with projected sales and a 5 year moratorium on the need for higher emissions.
But thats what happens when you have politicians with no technical background making decisions.
I'd drive a diesel in a heartbeat but unless I want to buy a VW there are no economical diesel cars to buy.
The problem though are the diesel emissions laws which are short sighted. Passenger car diesel engines in '09 are required to meet an insanely low emissions standard even though they make us less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the cars in the US, and this is pass car only.
So auto manufacturers have to install a urea system to clean up th exhaust. A great idea in big rigs and semi's. Some politician thought it would be great to enforce urea over here since it works so well for semi's, and it does work well.
Problem being is its 10-15k for a big rig. Well for a big rig thats not a big deal. Your raising the price 4-5 percent for a super clean truck that will last 30+ years.
Applied to a pass car is stupid. 6K for the system, 7-8 year life cycle and a cost increase of nearly 25 percent on average.
All to save...nothing...there are not enough pass cars, nor will enough pass cars be sold in the next 5 years to make an environmental impact. I think if every diesel pass car is sold in the US there are only about 75K reaching the market every year.
A ground up engine design however does not require urea but does require a 5-7 year development time.
So now the car companies have to spend a ton of money to develop urea, take a loss on the cars because no one is going to pay 6K extra for a diesel engine on top of a diesels already higher cost instead of putting that money towards a new diesel engine.
Its short sighted and short term money wasted because urea is not going to be used once new engines are developed.
If they would have tied in new tiered diesel emissions with projected sales and a 5 year moratorium on the need for higher emissions.
But thats what happens when you have politicians with no technical background making decisions.
I'd drive a diesel in a heartbeat but unless I want to buy a VW there are no economical diesel cars to buy.
01-02-2008, 10:26 AM
#4
Team Owner
Thats '08 pricing...wait for '09 pricing...better be sitting down 
Diesel around here is $3.60 a gallon too.
Its a great idea and I've been a proponent of it since I drove an Audi A6 diesel back in 1993 but the government has managed to throw a wrench into it.
The adoption rate would be faster with a better and more practical emissions law based on volume of sales.
Diesel around here is $3.60 a gallon too.
Its a great idea and I've been a proponent of it since I drove an Audi A6 diesel back in 1993 but the government has managed to throw a wrench into it.
The adoption rate would be faster with a better and more practical emissions law based on volume of sales.
01-02-2008, 11:51 AM
#6
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If someone can convince me that buying a diesel will SAVE me money then I'll be all over it.
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
01-02-2008, 12:33 PM
#7
Le Mans Master
I haven't followed diesel developments closely but I believe a key
statement from the passage above is
to make domestic use of diesels increasingly feasible and likely to open
the market to the adoption of technology & vehicles already available
elsewhere?
The diesel SMART car was introduced in Can for the '04 model year.
IIRC, fuel availability was part of the consideration behind delaying
entry into the US until '06. I do not know what market share Chev and
Dodge (Duramax & Cummins) diesel pickups have in the US, but they
have been popular here for a long time. They seem to be very
common for personal use as well as for commercial applications.
I was surprised to see how much NA truck production exceeds auto
production figures. Mfrs can switch trucks to diesel, but as has already
been said, this is a short-term solution to the big picture that
regulators are trying to tackle: oil dependency, climate change and so
on. Pragmatically, greater fleet improvement is going to come from
switching customers out of trucks and into cars.
.
statement from the passage above is
In the United States, until recently, diesel fuel refining
rules made it hard to have a 50-state standard. But with consistency
in low-sulfur diesel fuel regulations and the newly passed energy
legislation, Detroit's automakers are making a push into the diesel
market.
Isn't growing availability of ultra-low sulphur diesel (ULSD) what promisesrules made it hard to have a 50-state standard. But with consistency
in low-sulfur diesel fuel regulations and the newly passed energy
legislation, Detroit's automakers are making a push into the diesel
market.
to make domestic use of diesels increasingly feasible and likely to open
the market to the adoption of technology & vehicles already available
elsewhere?
The diesel SMART car was introduced in Can for the '04 model year.
IIRC, fuel availability was part of the consideration behind delaying
entry into the US until '06. I do not know what market share Chev and
Dodge (Duramax & Cummins) diesel pickups have in the US, but they
have been popular here for a long time. They seem to be very
common for personal use as well as for commercial applications.
I was surprised to see how much NA truck production exceeds auto
production figures. Mfrs can switch trucks to diesel, but as has already
been said, this is a short-term solution to the big picture that
regulators are trying to tackle: oil dependency, climate change and so
on. Pragmatically, greater fleet improvement is going to come from
switching customers out of trucks and into cars.
.
01-02-2008, 12:47 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
is in turning the diesel off. Owners here leave them idling.
Having said that, I rented a FORD V10 diesel from a truck specialist
during a cold spell and informed them I would need to start it at times
when it wouldn't be possible to plug it in beforehand. They requested
a slightly different starting procedure and I had zero issues.
.
01-02-2008, 01:05 PM
#9
Drifting
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06...north-america/
This is destined for many GM vehicles. I've also heard from an industry source that this diesel was small enough to put into an Impala. I hear this Impala is a mule at the Milford proving grounds.
If you look close it has air intakes on the side and the exhaust comes out the top where the turbo(s) reside. I'm interested...
This is destined for many GM vehicles. I've also heard from an industry source that this diesel was small enough to put into an Impala. I hear this Impala is a mule at the Milford proving grounds.
If you look close it has air intakes on the side and the exhaust comes out the top where the turbo(s) reside. I'm interested...
01-02-2008, 01:10 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
If someone can convince me that buying a diesel will SAVE me money then I'll be all over it.
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
01-02-2008, 01:15 PM
#11
Team Owner
Thread Starter
01-02-2008, 01:16 PM
#12
Team Owner
I recall reading where GM is developing a 4.8L diesel for the 1500 series trucks. That will be a great deal for people who tow trailers and don't feel they need the big DuraMax and 6-speed Allison.
But the price of diesel will probably scare a lot of people away if the new motor won't produce a signifigant increase in fuel mileage over the 4.8 and 5.3 gas motors.
Last November, #2 diesel in this area climbed to $3.75 a gallon. Boi-diesel is big in this area and that was about 3-7 per gallon more depending on the station. Diesel is now down to $3.49 at most stations and from what I have been reading about gas prices for this year, there may not be any drop in fuel costs. Gas and diesel will probably climb in price and when we get to May, prices may very well be higher than las tsummer.
As far as starting, a block heater should provide enough heat to start small truck diesels (as long as you remember to plug it in
).
But running the 20% bio-diesel can be a problem. I read this morning that the City of Vancouver, WA is quitting using the 20% stuff in their city vehicles because air temps in the low 30's is causing the stuff to gel. The 5% bio-diesel is OK but I have heard where some areas get real cold that people are having to use heaters under fuel tanks to keep even the 5% stuff from turning to a gel.
But the price of diesel will probably scare a lot of people away if the new motor won't produce a signifigant increase in fuel mileage over the 4.8 and 5.3 gas motors.
Last November, #2 diesel in this area climbed to $3.75 a gallon. Boi-diesel is big in this area and that was about 3-7 per gallon more depending on the station. Diesel is now down to $3.49 at most stations and from what I have been reading about gas prices for this year, there may not be any drop in fuel costs. Gas and diesel will probably climb in price and when we get to May, prices may very well be higher than las tsummer.
As far as starting, a block heater should provide enough heat to start small truck diesels (as long as you remember to plug it in
). But running the 20% bio-diesel can be a problem. I read this morning that the City of Vancouver, WA is quitting using the 20% stuff in their city vehicles because air temps in the low 30's is causing the stuff to gel. The 5% bio-diesel is OK but I have heard where some areas get real cold that people are having to use heaters under fuel tanks to keep even the 5% stuff from turning to a gel.
01-02-2008, 01:23 PM
#13
Drifting
The only things I buy gas for now are my lawn mower and the Vette. I drive a 2006 VW Jetta TDI and a 2003 Dodge 2500 with a Cummins. My wife and I put over 35k miles on the VW within the first year. For combined driving, it gets 42-43 MPG. I paid $3.39 for diesel this morning. The VW will get 550-600 miles on a single tank, which means I only have to fill up once a week on average. On the highway, it will average 52-56 MPG. The car is so quiet, I had a guy riding in it and he had no idea it was a diesel. It starts every time with very little wait. There is a bit of white smoke on really cold starts, but that only happens right at start.
The truck gets 19.6 MPG on combined driving, and up to 22 MPG unloaded on the highway. When pulling my 40' enclosed trailer (combined weight near 20,000 lbs) the truck gets 12-14 MPG at 65-70 MPH. This is a 4x4 with a 3.73 axle and auto trans. I have only had a problem with the truck not starting one time in the 4 years I owned it, and that was because of some poor quality fuel I got. The truck is too big to be in the garage, so it sits out in the cold. I use a block heater when parked at home, but there have been times I forgot. The truck starts in -10F weather by letting the heaters cycle twice instead of once. This takes about a minute.
I will continue to buy diesels based on my experiences. With the miles we drive, it pays off for the daily driver. The truck will take longer to pay off, but I love the confidence I have towing with the diesel. It also gets better mileage than the little Dakota we had. Also, I figure I am doing something to reduce the amount of oil we use. If everyone drove a daily driver that averaged 42 MPG, that would really cut down on how much oil we use. It's not why I bought the diesels, but I do think about it.
Ken
The truck gets 19.6 MPG on combined driving, and up to 22 MPG unloaded on the highway. When pulling my 40' enclosed trailer (combined weight near 20,000 lbs) the truck gets 12-14 MPG at 65-70 MPH. This is a 4x4 with a 3.73 axle and auto trans. I have only had a problem with the truck not starting one time in the 4 years I owned it, and that was because of some poor quality fuel I got. The truck is too big to be in the garage, so it sits out in the cold. I use a block heater when parked at home, but there have been times I forgot. The truck starts in -10F weather by letting the heaters cycle twice instead of once. This takes about a minute.
I will continue to buy diesels based on my experiences. With the miles we drive, it pays off for the daily driver. The truck will take longer to pay off, but I love the confidence I have towing with the diesel. It also gets better mileage than the little Dakota we had. Also, I figure I am doing something to reduce the amount of oil we use. If everyone drove a daily driver that averaged 42 MPG, that would really cut down on how much oil we use. It's not why I bought the diesels, but I do think about it.
Ken
01-02-2008, 01:24 PM
#14
Team Owner
Thread Starter
If someone can convince me that buying a diesel will SAVE me money then I'll be all over it.
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
I currently drive a 2500 Silverado with the 6.0 gas burner. It is my daily driver plus my Vette hauler. I drive app. 15K per year & I don't need a 10,000lb towing capacity.
The same truck w/diesel engine cost at least 6K more, plus diesel fuel is currently .50 cents per gallon higher than gas.
So should my next Chevy truck be a diesel?????
01-02-2008, 02:02 PM
#15
Drifting
I just started our 99 cummins up this morning without an issue. No block heater, 6 degrees out, 17-20mph winds. Had a quick puff of white, then a puff of black, then was fine. Went to 3cyl mode to bring EGT's up, and was warm within 10 minutes.
01-02-2008, 02:37 PM
#16
Former Vendor
I have heard all the claims that they start right up on the coldest AMs. I have yet to see it on a freezing night -35 or so, is cold. 6 degrees is like a heat wave up here.
Randy
PS Plugging them in is a great way of starting anything!!!
Randy
PS Plugging them in is a great way of starting anything!!!
01-02-2008, 02:41 PM
#17
Team Owner
You can run regular sulfur vs ultra low but you'll clog the particulate filter after 10-15k miles.
Lutz had a great interview on diesel in America. The problem is with the new emissions standards you'll find that diesel mileage goes down to near gasoline levels as you tune for the new requirements in '11.
Mercedes Gas/Diesel cycle looks promising. Starts on spark plugs, then switches to compression. 238hp/276ft lbs out of 1.8 liters and a claimed 41mpg in a S-class.
Diesels in trucks make sense if your going to keep them forever. Cummins diesels have ridiculously good resale value. I love driving the 6.7's but my mileage isn't as good with the lead foot
Lutz had a great interview on diesel in America. The problem is with the new emissions standards you'll find that diesel mileage goes down to near gasoline levels as you tune for the new requirements in '11.
Mercedes Gas/Diesel cycle looks promising. Starts on spark plugs, then switches to compression. 238hp/276ft lbs out of 1.8 liters and a claimed 41mpg in a S-class.
Diesels in trucks make sense if your going to keep them forever. Cummins diesels have ridiculously good resale value. I love driving the 6.7's but my mileage isn't as good with the lead foot
01-02-2008, 02:58 PM
#18
Team Owner
Thread Starter
I see 8 record days at -30 F or lower with the lowest being -38. No wonder they call it Buffalo I doubt even they live there!Mine is an 01 with 110,000 and tows and is loaded a lot. Doesn't burn enough oil between 10,000 mile oil changes on dino oil to add any.
I know on turbodieselregistry.com the Cummins starts at -35 F in Alaska no problem.
Last edited by John Shiels; 01-02-2008 at 03:01 PM.
01-02-2008, 04:44 PM
#19
Drifting
With the new diesels from GM I think you can only use B5 bio. Anything more than that and you got J-E-L-L-O! They would need an in-tank agitater to keep it liquid. UL sulfer is all around here at $3.50/gal. If I could get 8 mpg's better I think I'd go for the baby d-max in a 1/2 ton and still be able to pull the car and trailer all over creation with no issue.
01-02-2008, 09:02 PM
#20
Safety Car
My first work truck ('98 GMC 6500 w/CAT 3116E, bought in 2003 w/45k miles) didn't last 98k until it blew. Warrentee was 3 years or 100k, so I was SOL. Although I maintained it, I can't speak for the history before me. In talking to other fleet owners, I am not sure maint. would have mattered. The 3116/3116E/3126/D7 are NOT million mile motors and until recently couldn't even be re-sleaved.
It's not just CAT. Light/med duty diesels are built to a price (meaning cheap). If you want 500k before a rebuild in frame, buy a Peterbuilt, K/W, or Mack. If diesel was cheaper than regular (where the price SHOULD be) you could offset the costs. Otherwise, you'll never be able to drive the thing long enough to get your money back. BTW, a Jasper reman was 15k (1 year war) and a CAT reman was 18K (2 year war).
I traded it hurt (took a spanking) and have an '07 Chevy 5500 w/Duramax (Izusu) power. I'll be trading it back once the lease runs out in 5 years or 100k, which ever comes first./:\
It's not just CAT. Light/med duty diesels are built to a price (meaning cheap). If you want 500k before a rebuild in frame, buy a Peterbuilt, K/W, or Mack. If diesel was cheaper than regular (where the price SHOULD be) you could offset the costs. Otherwise, you'll never be able to drive the thing long enough to get your money back. BTW, a Jasper reman was 15k (1 year war) and a CAT reman was 18K (2 year war).
I traded it hurt (took a spanking) and have an '07 Chevy 5500 w/Duramax (Izusu) power. I'll be trading it back once the lease runs out in 5 years or 100k, which ever comes first./:\