mikahb

Looks like I need to install one so I can go racing with NASA in March.

Questions:
1) Do most people use the type that also disconnects the alternator vs. just battery?
2) Is turning the cutoff "off" going to reset my ECM every time, and if so how big a deal is that (or does it just depend on my tune)?
3) What's the best spot to mount one? I've seen them on the rollbar (pass-side) and through the plastic at the base of the windshield - any other good spots?

Thanks everybody!

RAFTRACER

I dont think for NASA that you need one, I thought the SCCA however did require one .....

If you a cut-off switch is mandatory, I believe that it needs to cut the alternator also so that the car will shut-off.

mikahb

Hey Danny - thanks for the response. Well, I think SCCA Touring class allows you to NOT have one, my car has it's 2008 annual tech and got through without one. Ironically, they DID ask to have an "Off" sticker put on the car - even though there's no real cutoff switch. Go figure!

Jody (Falcon) mentioned to me that I would need one for NASA, but admittedly I haven't gone through the rulebook.

You going to be down at Road Atlanta? Would be great to meet the legend in person!

Falcon

Here is the rule from the NASA Super Touring Rules:

-----------------------------------

7.2 NASA CCR Section 15 and 18 Exceptions
All of the rules listed in the NASA CCR Sections 15 and 18 will apply, except:
CCR 15.6—Roll cages may be built to provide an unlimited amount of chassis stiffening.
Any number of cage mounting points may be used above the six (6) minimum requirement, and, any number of additional tubes may be used above the minimum with additional attachment points to the body, including tubes that penetrate the firewall.
CCR 15.8—An electrical master cut-off switch is required.
CCR 15.9—Steering wheel lock removal is recommended, but not required.
CCR 15.16—An approved suitable racing seat is required.
CCR 18.6—Engine modifications are unlimited.
---------------------------------------------

I keep mine turned off all the time except when on track. The battery never runs down that way. The cutoff must also include the alternator since they test it by having the engine running and when they turn the master off, the engine should die.

Nothing is affected by the loss of power. Well, nothing important anyway. You have to have power to open the gas door and the trunk.

RAFTRACER

Falcon.....You do realize those are all exception to the CCR for ST, yes ??? I am installing one in my car soon regardless, but they issued me a log book without a battery cut-off.

Falcon

No, section 15 of the CCR doesn't require a cutoff, only recommends one, so the exception to the CCR is the it requires one. Here's the
CCR rule it is excepting:
------------------------

15.8 Master Switch
An electrical master switch is recommended on all cars, and required on some, as listed in the class rules. It shall be mounted so that it is easily accessible from the outside. If mounted outside the cockpit, it should be mounted in an area where it is least likely to be damage (i.e. cowling near wipers). The switch shall cut all power except to the on-board fire system and any other life support / medical device. The switch location must be clearly marked. Any marked switch must function as per this rule, or the indication decal must be removed.

----------------------

I can't answer how you got one without the cutoff. Maybe the inspector didn't know about the ST rule??? Maybe Mikahb can escape tech without getting caught.

RAFTRACER

My ST director told me I didn't need one .....

I will be installing one anyways, I have had it since I started building the car, just haven't got to it yet. Good idea to have one

Falcon

Tell James he's been hanging around T1 too much.

RAFTRACER

Once we get done with our other science projects, we'll get right on the electrical system......We almost have his science project done, only two more cars to go..

RAFTRACER

I was just thinking......If they are required, there is a whole lot of tech officials at the NASA Nationals that didn't catch it for some reason.....and it wasn't like my car wasn't at the tech shed alot those couple of days, including the final groom-over..

Falcon

Yea, I think since some classes don't require them, the inspectors either don't know or forget when they come across the ST/SU cars.

mikahb

Guys - which switch are you using and where have you mounted or are you planning to mount it?

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...45318_-1_10405

Jaymz

The CCR says that they are required in all cars. The ST/SU rules say that the rules will follow all of the CCR rules in section 15 and 18 except the following:

CCR 15.8—An electrical master cut-off switch is required.

Therefore a car running in ST does not need a cutoff switch.

Class rules ST/SU override CCR rules.


BUT if you are going to put on in your car get the 4 pole version as that is the one that will work in a C5 Vette.

Falcon

That would work. The one I have is even cheaper. Below is a picture.

Mine is mounted on the left dash, just to the left of the trunk release button. It's out of the way there, but still within reach of a track worker.

Falcon

James, according to rule 15.8 from the CCR, a switch is recommended. Here's the rule 15.8 in it's entirety verbatim:

15.8 Master Switch
An electrical master switch is recommended on all cars, and required on some, as listed in the class rules. It shall be mounted so that it is easily accessible from the outside. If mounted outside the cockpit, it should be mounted in an area where it is least likely to be damage (e.g. cowling near wipers). The switch shall cut all power except to the onboard fire system and any other life support / medical device. The switch location must be clearly marked. Any marked switch must function as per this rule, or the indication decal must be removed.

Jaymz

Recommended is not the same as Required.

Falcon

I agree with you the the CCR doesn't require it, but according to your post:

"Class rules ST/SU override CCR rules."

The ST/SU rules say that:

"7.2 NASA CCR Section 15 and 18 Exceptions
All of the rules listed in the NASA CCR Sections 15 and 18 will apply, except:
CCR 15.6—Roll cages may be built to provide an unlimited amount of chassis stiffening.
Any number of cage mounting points may be used above the six (6) minimum requirement, and, any number of additional tubes may be used above the minimum with additional attachment points to the body, including tubes that penetrate the firewall.
CCR 15.8—An electrical master cut-off switch is required.
CCR 15.9—Steering wheel lock removal is recommended, but not required.
CCR 15.16—An approved suitable racing seat is required.
CCR 18.6—Engine modifications are unlimited."

It says all the general CCR rules apply except for those listed above. Each of those rules, as written above, is different from the CCR. So, these would be the class rules overriding the CCR.

In CCR15.8 it says that "cutoff switches are recommended." The Class rules then change the wording of 15.8 to read that a cutoff switch is required. So, according to class rules prevailing, the cutoff switch is mandated.

Falcon

I just got this response for the national ST/SU director when I asked him about the master cutoff switch:

---------

".... we added language to the '08 Rules to make this more clear:
All of the rules listed in the NASA CCR Sections 15 and 18 will apply, except, the following rules will supercede those in the CCR:
CCR 15.6—Roll cages may be built to provide an unlimited amount of chassis stiffening.
Any number of cage mounting points may be used above the six (6) minimum requirement, and, any number of additional tubes may be used above the minimum with additional attachment points to the body, including tubes that penetrate the firewall.
CCR 15.8—An electrical master cut-off switch is required.
------------
Yes, a master cut-off switch is required in ST and SU.

Greg "
--------------------------

That's the ruling.

mikahb

Thanks for clearing that up, Jody - that seems pretty decisive!

RAFTRACER

I was reviewing the rules while choking down some nasty McDonalds at lunch and it seems as if there has been some words changed for '08, which now requires the switch....

We all should have them anyways.....

I bet its a real PITA for the corner workers to know who has switches and who doesn't when a car is upside down, on fire, up against the rev-limiter.