stano

is it? Are there any successful racers who do not heel/toe?
Can you only go so fast not using that technique and then improve that much more using Heel/Toe? I know some guys not using that technique and are running some low track times. I hope this hasn't been beat to death, if so, sorry for the redundant question.

Being new and not heel/toeing, I'm wondering if I should make it a priority and work on it at this point.

Stan

mousecatcher

it is absolutely essential

AU N EGL

and it takes lots and lots of practice.

willhaveC6

Soooo, start practicing on the road every day. You don't have to be slowing down from a buck fifty to practice. In fact, better if you aren't

Try it simply getting off freeways, from 6th to 4th etc...

SouthernSon

As I have gotten quicker over the last couple of years I have found some turns at some tracks really do require a good deft touch of heel and toe to shave off some seconds. Also, one's rythym at speed is more fluid with heel and toe. I have screeched the rear wheels more times than I would like to admit from simply coasting and trying to match rpm when I could have done much better if I were staying up to speed and using heel/toe technique. You will really notice it once you get to the point of 'pitch and catch' speed ( throw the car into the turn deep, sliding, catching traction while lining up for new direction and throttling forward....a technique with which I am not consistent yet). Sure, one can do very well at a track without using H/T but, all things being equal, the accomplished H/T guy will beat you....and look a lot smoother doing it.

WNeal

When I first started trying it, I thought "there is no friggin way"
Just set my mind to it and started practicing on the street, then tried it on the track.
One year later, much better but still need to get better.

I practice every chance I get on the highway, everytime I drive the Vette.



There are folks on here with much much more experience than me but I would add this:
This is not something you learn on the track. You learn it elsewhere and perfect it on the track.

mikahb

Agree with everybody else, it's something that at some point - if you want to keep going faster - you have to learn and eventually master. Like everyone said, practice on the street, and once your feet figure out what you're asking them to do, start trying it out on the track. This is one of those where "practice makes perfect!"

As far as why it picks you up time, the reality is that if you don't heel-toe downshift, you are - at some point in a turn - going to be coasting. That's just not going to be fast, except maybe in 1 or 2 turns on 1 or 2 tracks that have just the right decreasing radius setup. With heel-toe, by the time you turn in, you are in the right gear, right foot itchin to get back on that throttle, and zero time lost trying to soft-shift into the correct gear.

Trust me on this - if I can learn to do it, ANYBODY can learn to do it - just be patient and keep at it!

JimbeauZ06

I have a related question: How many of you that do H/T actually use the traditional heel on gas toe on brake method versus inside ball of right foot on brake and rolling your foot to blip the gas?

In my car it is physically not possible even while stopped to use traditional H/T.

Wicked Weasel

learn it, live it, love it.....

IT does take some time to get it right, but once you do it correctly you are in a different category. The car is just that much smoother on the track and it saves parts...

AU N EGL

Inside and outside of the right foot, roll the ankle

Cobra4B

Did the Panoz Racign School at Road Atlanta in '03... the first thing they made us learn was heel/toe downshifts.

I have a hard time practicing on the street because at street braking levels with good pads the brake pedal doesn't push down low enough to effectively heel/toe for me.

Like Tom said above me, I brake with the left side of my right foot and roll my foot right to blip the gas.

davidfarmer

This all comes back to BEING SMOOTH. I ride with people all the time that are FAST, yet not nearly as smooth as they think they are. My first question......How often do you drive (ie at the track) IN THE RAIN. 99% of the time, they say NEVER.

I always encourage people to take advantage of running in the rain, because it FORCES you to drive an ultra smooth line, and make all hand and foot inputs very smooth and precise.

You absolutly cannot threshold brake AND downshift at the same time in a rear-wheel-drive car smoothly unless you heel-toe. That doesn't mean you cant still go really fast, but if you want to be on the absolute edge, you have to compress your braking/shifting into the same process, and heel-toe makes this safe.


** I DO encourage heel-to practice on the street. I think being able to adapt to varying brake levels is what makes you good. If you learn to do it in any car/any brake level, you'll be that much better in the long run.

Wicked Weasel

I have small feet (size 9.5) so I had to adjust somewhat. I basically moved my foot over to the left a small bit. Maybe between the brake and the gas. This allows me to use the left part of my foot for holding the brake down. I want to get as much of my foot as I can on the brake because frankly slipping off the brake is asking for diaster.

For the gas pedal I just roll my middle to small toes over and blip the gas. It really became easy to do once I moved my foot to the left.

I have read different ways to do it but this is what I do

1. begin braking
2. clutch in
3. shift to neutral
4. blip gas
5. shift into gear
6. release clutch

Wicked Weasel

At VIR David gave me good advice. I was doing heel/toe, but it was too early and I was still using the car enigne to slow me down. On dry it was ok, but wet it would have been diaster.

His advice though was not to change it on the track that day, but basically go out on the street and practice every chance I had. After doing that I finally got the timing down which I brought back to the track at a later date. I think the advantage of doing off the track is that I can concentrate on the heel/toe in a parking lot or at a stop light where it is not that dangerous. Trying to concentrate on heel/toe on the track when you are flying around turns probably is not that wise.

GTB/ZR-1

I agree w/ the above--it is very important to maximize threshold braking & be smooth while doing it...

Once you get it down, you'll be able to 'do it in your sleep' and hop in any car (other than a 1st Gen Viper!) and pull them off in expert manner

Interesting story: When I went to the '01 USGP in Indy, there was a Porsche Cup support race. Sam Hornish was running in it. I was in the infield @ the end of the straight & watched Sam really struggle w/ the downshifts as he couldn't rev match. He was just dropping the clutch & the rear end was almost locking up.

I couldn't believe that an Indy Champion couldn't heel/toe--he ended up 3rd from last...

Itiner

i think the rev matching is good but the hardest part to being smooth all around on the track, and most people pay attantion too much for the H/T they loosing momentum. So it is that important? No.
get smooth firts, and then try to rev match it.

rfn026

I took a piece of plywood and made a larger accelerator pedal. I bolted it to the stock pedal. You can shim it so it's at the same height as a depressed brake pedal.

Now when I brake I can roll the right side of my foot over on the accelerator pedal.

I've never been able to use the traditional heel/toe thing. Right side - left side works a lot better for me.

Don't forget the whole purpose of this thing is to get out of the corners fast. It shouldn't be used to slow down the car. That's what your brakes do.

Richard Newton

Autocross Performance Handbook

101 Projects for Your Corvette 1984-1996

heavychevy

You do not HAVE to heel/toe to be fast. And it will not make a huge difference in times, but the advantages of doing it are so great, you shouldnt leave it out.

But I do think some people are trying to learn too many things before learning proper track basics and end up going slow because they are too worried about being able to heel/toe and left foot brake and trail brake etc. Just learn how to drive first and then add the details that make you better. I think the advanced guys have been doing it for so long they forget it does take a while before the stuff becomes natural to noobs, so noobs are out there missing apex's and terribly jerky, but still trying to heel/toe, left foot brake etc and never get anywhere.


So the answer to your question is you can go fast without heel/toe, without a doubt. But it is harder as you have to be even more pin point with downshifts not to unsettle the car.

But the other answer is that you need heel/toe for several reasons to maximize your driving potential.

Bill Hetzel

Traditional H/T is with the ball of your foot on the brake and rolling your ankle to blip.
The only time the heel is used is on cars where the pedals were too far apart like older Nascars and vintage, production based racecars. It is also less sensitive for threshold braking because your knee is less sensitive than your ankle. When you use the ball of your foot you're using both your leg and ankle to brake.

Once you learn to do it, H/T is really easy to do in a C4,5,6.

stano

Are there any videos that show H/T that might help me? Also, would it be better to use a tennis shoe in the beginning that has a wider sole rather than my Piloti shoes? When trying H/T on the street, I find myself pressing on the brake pedal too hard as I try to blip the throttle which slows me down too quick. The gap between the brake pedal and go pedal seems too wide and it feels like the ball on the left side of my right foot will slip off and get caught between the pedals as I blip. Would a wider brake pedal or throttle pedal be a good improvement and help?

Being hooked is a damn understatement I wake up going over corners and lines in my head and thinking about a C5Z or C6Z track car, what trailer to carry it and what truck to pull it with

Thanks to everyone for your help and suggestions