0C5stein

PRESS RELEASE CORRECTION - HANS DEVICE ASSERTS SIDE IMPACT PERFORMANCE

The original press release referenced an incorrect SAE paper. The correct document is SAE Technical Paper Series 2004-01-3513.

Atlanta, Georgia (March 13, 2008) – Recently, allegations have been made that the HANS Device does not work in side angular impacts. This is simply not true. It is contrary to proven results. Such distortions confuse and deceive the racing public.

Independent testing, supported by General Motors Racing, Wayne State University and Safety Solutions, Inc., has demonstrated that HANS Devices reduce maximum neck tensions by over 35% in 60-degree "side" impacts in a typical racecar set up (SAE Technical Paper Series 2004-01-3513.)

HANS Performance Products CEO Mark Stiles said, "We are not aware of any substantial independent side impact testing on products that try to compete against HANS Devices, but we have seen competitors continually try to deceive racers with marketing spin."
Stiles added, "SFI tests include a 30-degree "side" impact. The best performance we have seen reported by competitors here is 20% worse than we achieve with HANS Devices in recent tests."

He continued, "Representatives from HANS Performance Products, Hendricks, ISP and The Joie of Seating, did observe some 90-degree "side" impact testing conducted at the end of last year by Delphi for NASCAR. We all witnessed how the HANS Device worked as the tethers grabbed the helmet."

The best side impact performance is achieved with an SFI or FIA approved head and neck restraint, a good harness system, seats that have hip and shoulder support, and a lateral head support system. The latter can be built into the seat or achieved using special side nets.

John Shiels

good info

Bimota Guy

Of course, the test results would be nice to see.

Racer86

The R3 has improved the side impact deal, as it extra support that travels down your back with a lower strap. I think it is a better design

mikahb

I'll tell you what, I feel as safe and cozy as I possibly could with my HANS and my new Recaro Pro Road Race seat. My head can move about 1 1/2" to either side before I hit the seat, and the HANS keeps my head from exiting the windshield if I hit something.

I've not used the R3 and it's probably good also. But, I think with the right seat, a HANS is a very good option.

0C5stein

I'll agree that the R3 is useful with a 3 point seat belt, but I do have reservation with their SFI 38.1 test data. The R3 relies on the steel chest and abdomin structure of the crash dummy to achieve a passing grade. However you and I have relatively flexible ribcage and more squishy abdomin which allows the backboard to travel reward as the torso travels forward in an frontal impact. IMHO it is the difference between our body and the crash dummy that skews the test data's passing grade.

With the introduction of the HANS Sport model, I believe that HANS offers a much better price point as well.

fatbillybob

YES! They do all kinds of things to spin the results. Many sled test are not with containment seats but a bench. The offset crash test I have seen have been in a monocoque chassis and the dummy only records the newtons of pull on the neck not really the results of the HANS itself. Diclaimer....I am a HANS user and I have tested it...unfortunately

fatbillybob

You may be correct . There are many issues that can change results. Still the R3 has the shoulder belt area that locks the device down like HANS and by theory should be all you need. The front back support is overkill and provided funtion in less than ideal harness set-ups and maybe even in harnessless karts.

fatbillybob

The new HANS has sliding tethers yet to be legal by the FIA. This effectively lenthens the tethers about double. So what does that do in a side impact? The sliding tethers were a response to complaints about not being able to turn your head especially in the paddock.

On a similar tether issue has anyone ever accidentally unclipped the HANS quick release while putting their shoulder straps on?

Olitho

No, I always put on my shoulder straps, then my helmet and then I attach the HANS fittings. Last are my gloves, start the car and exit the hot pit....

SouthernSon

When a new concept product hits the market as well engineered from the get go as did HANS, it is only a matter of time that there will be some that try to break into the market with a similar product trying to spin the advertising toward theirs being an 'improvement' in some areas.

I'll stick with my HANS. It is comfortable and reassuring. But as mentioned above, there are other variables such as type harness system (if any) and type seat....etc...

JaGsC5

Keep in mind that both the Hans device and the the R3 hybrid are SFI approved and approved for use in NASCAR. I'm not sure what to think about a supporting vendor who sells the Hans giving information about how the Hans is better without giving us proof that it is. The fact that an independent test from Hans and GM sounds nice but where are the results and which devices did they test? In defense of the person who started this thread; I've been searching the internet and have called both companies to find test results which prove which one is better and to date I have not found or received such information. So, who's to say which device is better? It leads me to believe that both devices probably provide similar protection and neither can prove theirs better. It would seem that it forces each company to test their product in an independent test overseen by themselves to control the results to enable their company the opportunity to say theirs is slightly better and sell more products. So, who's to say which one is better? Would someone post some test results not soiled by one or the other manufacturers!

0C5stein

I'll quote the results from the SFI 38.1 recertification test that was conducted at the end of last year.

In the same test, same speed, same impact, same angle the neck tension loading were recorded to be:
HANS = 210#
R3 = 260#
Hutchens Hybrid = 300#

The lower the neck loading the better.

As a side bar; I take offense that you questioning my integrity just because I sell one of these products and not the others. I could sell any of these three products and I chose the HANS for those with full racing belts as I have interpretited that product to provide better protection.

I have said in the past that IMO the R3 is probably the best option for those with three point belts.

Jason Staley

Thats good to know. My old corvette only has a 3 point belt. I am debating on adding a roll cage and racing belts, but I have my reservations about this because it is pimarily a street car and the roll cage is going to be a PITA to live with in this car. An R3 might be a good bit of insurance for me if I stick with the factory belts.

ez.

I'm just curious how you would respond to the tests commissioned by Isaac, the maker of the Isaac device. The test video clearly shows the harness slipping off of the Hans. One could imagine it would be more likely to do so in a side impact. Perhaps their tests were manipulated to make the Isaac devic appear to perform better than the Hans? One obvious point is that it does not appear that 2" 'Hans' shoulder belts were used in the test.

From an engineering standpoint, the Isaac device appears to be a superior design. Unfortunately, it seems that the adoption of safety devices by sanctioning bodies is as much political as scientific. Just thought I'd stir the pot a bit...

http://www.isaacdirect.com

Cheers!
Ethan

bsim

Personally I would go with a Hutchens or D-Cel with a 3-point belt system. Since part of the SFI certification includes harnesses, if you're not using the harness you're no longer certified anyway.

Just keep this in mind when shopping SFI. If you don't use the whole system, you won't get the described protection results.

fatbillybob

You can't stir anything with Isaac because the issac fails 38.1. Therefore you can't even use it in porsche club racing. It is a non-issue.

gbaker

The Isaac system does not fail SFI 38.1 testing. In fact, its superior performance is well documented in SAE paper #2006-01-3631. Furthermore, that paper clearly demonstrates that pure lateral load measures are worse with the HANS device than nearly any other product on the market, increasing lateral shear by more than 100% and generating lateral torque values 3X higher than an Isaac system.

Also, the SAE paper cited by Hubbard/Downing (2004-01-3513) includes testing that proves the HANS device does not prevent fatal head and neck injuries in side impacts--using HANS own performance measure.

0C5stein

Here is the courious part, Dr. Hubbard pointed out during the playing of that same video.

He said, "You will notice that the shoulder belt has slipped off of the HANS on one side yet the neck loading still yielded SFI acceptable values. You will notice that the head remained restrained over the shoulders".

As far as side impact, did you see Kyle Bush's rollover accident last year where the car tumbled more that 4 times. I'm sure that there were multiple hits and side loads in that wreck, yet he walked to the ambulance under his own power after the wreck. He only complained of being sore the next day, not injured.

So IMO - HANS for (5, 6 or 7 point) full harness & R3 for 3point stock belts.

JaGsC5

I was not questioning your integrity. Sorry if you took offense. Perhaps you did not understand what I was saying. I truly believe you're selling the Hans product because you feel it's a better product and thats fine. But every dealer I called states they feel the product they sell (Hans, R3, Hybrid, Issac) is better. Thats why they sell it. As a consumer, I want to see proof and information from a truely independent source about each device so I can decide on my own which product best protects me in my car for the type of racing I do.

I think I found the same information that you are quoting.

It shows the R3 and the Hybrid out performing Hans in a 30 degree frontal

HANS = 494
R3 = 430
Hybrid = 230

I read that Hubert Gramling, a Safety Consultant to the FIA Institute stated that the Hybrid and the HANS devices were equal

I know Hans has been successful in NASCAR but think the use of only Hans to this point has been nothing but political like every thing else in NASCAR.


Ok, here's my "opinion" and only an opinion.

1. I have no opinion about the Isaac

2. I think the Hans, and the Hybrid are for the most part identical in performance if worn in a good racing seat with properly mounted belts. I think the R3 is right there as well. I think that the Hans might be slightly better in a 0 degree frontal impact and the the R3 and Hybrid are slightly better in a 30 degree or more impact. Who knows about the results in mulitiple impacts? The other thing to consider is how likely are you to hit straight on verses an angle? I guess that depends on where and what you race.

I'm not here to argue over someones opinion. It's a great topic for dicussion but I just chimed in to hopefully gain information about the products that went beyond opinion. i.e. documentation. Not to prove one product better than another but to help folks make an inform decision so they can apply it to their own racing situation.