sperkins

late model C4

or

99-2000 Camaro or Firebird

And why???


I know this is a corvette forum and I am a corvette junky, but the late model F-body seems like a good option with the LS1.

Discuss.....

Bill Dearborn

The Camaro may be cheaper overall than the Vette but with my 86 C4 I was able to turn better lap times than the mid 90s Camaro's that were running when I had that car. Not sure how much faster the LS1 installation made the Camaro's as I had stepped up to C5s before the LS1 was available in the Camaro.

Bill

Aardwolf

What year Camaro is in this video I just made?

Click here to watch MFBA1-4-13-08-Road-America

I played around behind that car most of a session then past. It really pulled away from my L98 on the straights but as you can see it lost time in breaking and cornering. With the C5 front brakes, brake parts are real inexpensive for the C4. If I were to do this all over I'd hold out for an LT1 'vette.

I have a full session of the above vid if you'd need it.

0Randy@DRM

The Corvette is going to better. The solid rear axle, pain to work on, and etc for the F-body.

The 90's C4 only major problem is the LT1 Optispark aka peice of crap.

I still think the best track day car is the 89 Corvette. With a good car, you can go and pound the crap out of it all day long, without too many headaches.

Randy

MAC95 6SPD

The IR suspension on the C4 gives the edge. The LS1 in the camaro might have more HP but nothing else. The L98 with only a little work will have gobs of torque and can be very reliable since you dont have to run it at 7 or 8000 RPM.
Mat

sperkins

OK so the C4 noses ahead at the moment.
I also agree the IR is by far the best, but a panhard bar and an updated suspension should help the F-body in the corners. The other factor against the F-body is weight. Is it possible to shed a couple hundred pounds from it easliy?

STEVEN13

Hi,
Sorry to disagree...but the opti is a lot more reliable than people give it credit for. When I purchased my 1992, it had 90,000 miles with the orginal opti, cap, and rotor. IMO if you are going to consider a C4 try to get the newest one you can afford. The car got better every year.

Steve

Daniel_Mc

Yea and when it blows up in your face you can send it to Randy
Not that I am speaking form experience or anything

But seriously the camaro is a huge PITA to work on, it is a bit heaver (don't know how easy one is to cut the weight out of), and its suspension. You could get a good L98 C4 for a little cheaper than the camaro and have just as much fun with less headaches.

varkwso

I built up a 1994 Z28 as a track car. Suspension can be fixed fairly cheaply. The stock baseline was a 1:29 at Roebling (200,000+ miles). It ran a 1:24 with suspension mods alone. It needed brake and engine help next.

The cars can be made to handle and brake - it just costs money.
TimZO6 has a 1995 Z28 and it is quick - but it is not stock. His best at Roebling, I think, is a 1:20 (with a blown head gasket )
- but he is nuts

Horsepower is cheap in the cars - but it is a PITA to work on the motors LT1 or LS1.

Brakes - they normally peddle the C5 brake upgrade - better but it will be 3300-3400 for the car vs 3085 in a FRC/ZO6 - so it will not stop as well as a stock C5.

When my Z28 was taken out on the street, by a minivan that ran a redlight, we bought the white 99 FRC to replace it.

I bought the black 99 FRC we had at Roebling for $9.3K - it will run circles around any Fbody or C4 for the money....

I would look for an early C5 over a C4 - but that is my opinion...

sperkins

Jeff - Ever since I saw you a Roebling, I lay awake at night wondering how the hell you found a FRC for under 10K. I swear I look every day and haven't found anything even remotely close to that. Did you have a gun clipped to your belt when you bought that car?

Diesel68

I had that same choice 5 years ago and picked an LT1 C4. The biggest weaknesses are brakes and power. There are several options for brakes, and the C5 upgrade was decent. With 1.7 roller rockers, long tube headers/catback, and self tune, I was able to get 315rwhp at the wheels with near 340rwtq. That is more than a stock LS1 and not far from a equally modified LS1. At the drag strip, I had no problems running with LS1 fbodies with bolt on modifications.

It doesn't take much to get a C4 to fly around the corners. While fbodies have good suspensions for a muscle car, they will need a lot of work to match a well set up C4. Their weight distribution is nowhere near the C4 and are also much heavier. Two things that are very hard to modify, but have a drastic effect on performance.

One negative about the C4 is the cost of maintenance. I did plenty of that with mine, and it was a sore point. I would imagine fbodies are much cheaper.

With C5's dropping so much, I'd look for an older M6 coupe. Next would be either an LT4 or L98 C4. It would all depend on how far I wanted to go with engine mods. LS1 fbodies are still a good choice.

I'll throw another one at you. Mustangs are also a good choice with a lot of different front and rear suspension options to fix its factory short falls. Companies like Maximum Motorsports and Griggs, have options for front strut or SLA suspensions. You even have the choice of an IRS rear suspension or modify the rear axle with a 3 link, torque arm, or 5link setup. The cars are also relatively light, and have a lot of engine options as well. The Mustang aftermarket is huge and they are very cheap to maintain. Look at racing series like American Iron or American Iron X to see what they are capable of running.

racebum

I have a modded C4, agree with the C5 statement if you can get one at a good price, just a better platform. On short tracks or tight autocross i would buy a civic hatch, integra or miata anyday, with some mod work any one of those 3 can tear up a short track.

rfn026

I don't think it's a real decision. The cars are too different to even compare You see a lot of Corvettes at track days and seldom see a Camaro. That says a lot.

The L98 C4 is a wonderful track car since it's got all that bottom end torque. The L98 can be hammered out of a corner while with the LT1 you have to wait for the rpms to wind up.

An L98 will come off the corner fast but by the end of the straight the LT1 will have caught up.

Brakes should never be a problem on the C4. I run the stock system with the dual piston sliding calipers up front and Wilwood pads all around. I've never had a brake issue.

Richard Newton

101 Projects for Your Corvette 1984-1996

Autocross Performance Handbook

varkwso

I bought it at a new Car Dealer in Dawsonville....they were going to wholesale it...it had some issues...passenger window stuck half up (fixed), drivers seat torn (fixed), paint kind of tired (still is), turn signals throwing a code (have the part - not torn the car down to fix it yet), bad brakes - fixed, old fluids - fixed, cruddy tires fixed, bad O2 - fixed.....so it was not exactly pristine. My white FRC three years ago for $15K was a better deal (at the time).....

also I would buy as late a model Mustang as possible instead of the Fbody - better/cheaper parts supply - and they are CHEAP....

sothpaw2

What maintenance items did you have trouble with/occurred too often? I had trouble with knock sensor wiring, rad hose, rear pads, caliper boots, fuel injectors (or something else that made mpg go down), and timing gear after 1 2 day event at Pocano. Some of that was mod related (injectors undersized for cam) but most was not.

I would say if you do an LT1 Camaro or C4 that you should probably leave the motor alone. The stock timing gear is good but if you want to cam it w/more rpm and valve springs there are not good alternatives for timing unless you do an electric waterpump. Those can and do work but they don't cool as well as the mechanical pump so it's a step in the wrong direction.

Diesel68

My biggest complaint were the wheel bearings. With just autocross, I could not make the hubs last. At $150 a pop, it was very expensive to replace. I had to replace them over 5 times in 3 years. I have put my C5 through a lot more stress and they seem to be holding up a lot better. I think part of the issue may have been heat. Overall, the C4 was hard to keep cool.

I also had ignition and timing retard issues. With as many sensors as the car has, one bad thing can cause performance to degrade. I had to replace optispark only once, but I also had to change the waterpump at the same time. All of this at around only 70k miles. Using tunercat, I was able to fight the gremlins and got the car running fairly strong, but it took time to learn the car and settings.

I also replaced the half shaft ujoints, and had to keep my eye on the powersteering pump. High rpms killed my power steering. Luckily Lucas makes a fluid that helped restore steering and prevented the powersteering from cutting out. I didn't need to replace anything, but if I had continued with the car, it would have been a necessary change.

0Randy@DRM

I guess working in a shop gave me a bad taste. We have a lot of problems with all the wet conditions, snow, rain and road construction.
Up here in MN were the roads can rot out a new truck in 4 years. I would say our shop has replaced over 200 of them in the past. They always go out at the worse times too. On the grid, and lining up for a national drag race event.

Randy

0Randy@DRM

Ok doesn't a guy have to draw a line somewhere

Randy

95jersey

Not sure what you are looking to spend, but I would stretch to try and buy at least a 97 C5. You can find them in the mid teens or lower all day long. A good C4 is only going to be a few grand less, and the chassis is FAR superior to the C4 and the parts available for the C5 are endless. It has better brakes, suspension, chassis, and won't actually fall apart as you drive it. Also, the LS1 and transaxle are way superior to the LT1 and with weight distribution being much better for road course duty.

I owned 2 C4's back in a day and they build quality just couldn't compare the the 5th generation. By the time you buy parts to fix the thing, you could have bought yourself a C5. Remember, cheap is expensive. I would go with a Camaro before going with a C4 or I would look to non-Corvette cars before buying a C4.

Sorry C4 guys, just my opinion after owing 2 of them.

sothpaw2

I wasn't thrilled with the build quality either. Heater core on a 5 year old car and again 3 years later. Parking brake at 6 years old. Antenna stopped retracting right at 7-8 years old, tape deck too. Not too mention the plastic parts that faded too soon. Starter at 7 years old w/50 k mi... it goes on.

But I loved the seating position and the feel.