vetteracer13

i have a 2000 frc that im converting to a t1 racer but i wanna know if there are any other options for a vette besides auto x or t1? i also wanna know if u can upgrade the clutch in t1?


Brandon

BuckeyeZ06

A stock clutch is required in SCCA T1. The general rule of thumb with T1 is if the GCR doesn't say you can do it...you can't.

NASA ST1, 2 and unlimited are three classes you can run with a C5 as well.

davidfarmer

You can upgrade to the C5Z06 clutch, which is better than what you have OEM.

Look into NASA, you can do any mods you want, just keep the appropriate power-to-weight ratio for your class (ST2 is very similar to T1).

Jason

Also Time Trials if you are looking for a step between autox and w2w.

Olitho

Dave Pintaric is right. The general rule of thumb in T1 is that the cars must be kept essentially stock. It is my understanding though that within a model family like the C5, on an FRC or 2001 that you are allowed to upgrade to components used in subsequent years if it is the same model. So you should be able to upgrade to the newer clutch and 405 HP engine. Someone correct me if I am wrong.

I know David Farmer is partial to modding his cars and staying within HP to weight rules at NASA, but I like T1 because for exactly the opposite reason. I don't want to have to modding the car and tinkering. I just want to drive. I love driving and with a T1 car I change oil do a little bit of TLC here and there and then I go out and drive the **** out of the car. My friends who mod their cars are always under the hood, under the car, etc. If they like that then that is cool.

With three kids, two of whom I bring to the track with their karts, a wife, a third child and a business to run, T1 is easier and cheaper for me in the end. I mainly just buy tires (mostly scrubs), NAPA rotors and brake pads and I am good to go.

fatbillybob

http://www.scca.com/documents/Club%20Rules/Touring.pdf

These are the SCCA GCR's for T-1 vettes. It does talk about allowed aftermarket parts and the GM T-1 kit but is silent on whether you can swap a 406Z06 motor into an FRC. I would love to know if this is true because you can buy and FRC for $12k and do a crate motor for $5k and get a pretty fresh car for very cheap. By one of the above posters if it doe not say you can you can't well then you are out of luck and down 55hp with a lesser suspension etc... with an FRC. So who can we talk to to find out if that motor swap can be done?

ghoffman

The shocks are now pretty much open now.

BuckeyeZ06

All C5s can run an LS6 (405) motor, a Z06 trans (MN12?) or MN6, plus T1 suspension and shock are open (for beginners, stay with Sachs non-adjustables).

Z06 clutch is required, no short-throw shifter (stock shifter **** required), open straight exhaust after factory manifolds (no cats).

yakisoba

If you want to do NASA and not mod, check out time trials. It's a good way to see if you like driving and keeping score. You can always mod into ST2 later on if you like. For example, a Z06 starts out in Time Trial division A in NASA, and can have VERY limited mods and still stay in that division. I think Toyo RA-1 tires (and ONLY those, or a lesser street tire) of 305 width, aftermarket non-adjustable shocks, an underdrive pulley, T-1 bars would be about it. Racing seat, harness, coolers (trans and oil), and you're set.

fatbillybob

Does anyone know if you have to stick to the GMPP oil and trans cooler or can you use an aftermarket one? I am actually shopping for cars now and see all kinds of owner mods and I hate to end up doing things over again. I am pretty sure the aftermarket steering racks and most aftermarket radiators are illegal right?

BuckeyeZ06

The aftermarket steering racks are illegal. The GRC lists a Ron Davis radiator as an upgrade for the car. I beleive the GMPP coolers are required (if you use coolers).

These three things do highlight my "disconnect" with some of SCCA's rules. I don't think a radiator, steering rack, or coolers make a whole heck of a lot of difference in performance, yet these are the required parts. If you use something else, you can get DQ'd (and I don't mean ice cream!).

vetteracer13

Yea i think i am going to go with T1 it sounds a little more challenging when they limit performance rather then wide open classes. i was originally gonna race ite which is an open class so i stripped the car down to the body and now im working on putting it back together with the T1 susp. package and ls6 motor. ill post pics as i get further into the build. Does anyone race T1 in california?

Olitho

I race T1 in California as do several other drivers. In California there seems to be a surge of new drivers entering the class, I am not sure why, but I figure it has to do with the C5 being a world class chassis that is now available at an amazing price point. Plus the SCCA changed to rules to extend the life span of that chassis for T1 racing through 2014.

BuckeyeZ06

T1 is challenging, and that is what makes it so attractive to me. I have run some other series and felt "empty" after a race. But running in a good T1 field it is a battle from flag to flag..what racing is supposed to me, IMO.

fatbillybob

Maybe I don't get it. T-1 does not seem to make up for the performance variences in c5 chassis like the FRC with 350hp, the 2001 Z06 with 375, and the 2002+ Z's with 405hp by allowing more or less weight. So running T-1 with a 2001 or FRC is no bargin because just to start you need to dump a 405hp crate motor in for $5k. I think with ST2 NASA allows more open chassis variations in weight and HP based on a formula like 8.7lbs/hp = ST2 iirc. So then an FRC with 350hp could be competative with a 2003 Z06 for nothing more than dumping out a bunch of weight. If I am reading this right then which series is the real bargin? There is no question in my mind that all cars "equal" is more competative like Z06's in T-1 but T-1 isn't really a bargin to run.

I don't know when the best time to buy a T-1 car is...maybe the end of the T-1 season. In the Southwest there is not much for sale. I'm weighing the relative value of building a T-1 car vs. buying one. It is really fun to build a car but really easy to just buy one as long as you don't get a stretched out used up rubberband for a chassis.

Falcon

That's exactly right. You can add as much lightness as necessary to get to the magic 8.7#'s/hp ratio. If done correctly it's much cheaper to go that way vs. adding power. David Farmer did it with a LS1 motor and a lightened Corvette-A-Amino. It worked like a top. (Sorry for the pun! )

One thing to consider, racing and bargin should never be used in the same sentence.

mikahb

The way the SCCA rules work - and if you wanted to be competitive - you would basically turn your FRC into a Z06 clone. You would add the front brake cooling, drop in an LS6 (and probably a MN12 tranny too) and even the thinner Z06 windshield to save some weight. You're right though - a regular FRC with no changes would not be competitive.

I highly recommend buying a car that is already built and raced (preferably by Phoenix). I looked specifically for a "low-miles" Phoenix car and couldn't be happier - mine had 9 races since build when I bought it. Good luck!

ghoffman

What I have never understood in T1 is what is the objective of the rules? Is it to save money, increase safety, promote close racing or what? When you have a car like the C5 and C6 that has non-replaceable rubber suspension bushings, what is wrong with a urethane kit? It would make the tires last longer and would be a net savings. Why does the flammable carpet need to stay in place? I think that the '1997 vintage slide-rail calipers are going to get someone hurt or at least cost a bundle in a serious accident soon (update: it just happened, so I am informed). The SCCA is handicapping the C6 to what, 3600 pounds now with 430 HP, on way better tires as compared to the original C5. The calipers were marginal in a '97 street car, and are scary in a 3600 pound race car, and the pads are thin and expensive. A set of Wilwood SL6R calipers on OE rotors would be safer and be probably a net savings due to cheaper pads that are almost 2x thicker. However, you can now run triple adjustable Penskes, Motons, Ohlins, etc though! Why is the radiator and cooler choice not open? And of course, the Hardbar Delrin shift **** will make you 2 seconds a lap quicker so I can see why that is not allowed ! I just don't understand what the real goal is.

vetteracer13

since it is extended till 2014 is it all years of c5s or do you lose one year every year. i was reading the rules and now it is 98-04 c5s ?

fatbillybob

I have to agree. Just another reason ST2 makes more sence but I got friends in T-1 and hope to race there. I also agree with Mikah buy one done if you can find it at a good price. I missed one last month for 29k with 3 sets of ccws and spares! It is hard to sit on my hands and be patient.