#1 TA WS-6

Let me first say I am sorry for my spelling as I have been drinking this evening. All of this was NOT decided tonight!

I have pretty much been a drag racer and a high horsepower guy my whole life. I have decided lately that I need to include more people in the things I like to do. Who better than my family? I thought about trying to get them into drag racing competetivly but I already have a car built for that and would not feel comfortable letting my mother try to take my 1000hp WS-6 down the strip. To little room for error at this point. I am not saying road racing is any easier but if you have ever drivin a car like this you understand. It can easily break drag radials loose at over 100 mph.

I have decided to try and get them (and me) into road racing. I have only been to one auto x event and did not even race! (just watched) I figured it would be much easier for my parents if they thought we were starting at a much closer level. I have zero time on a road course, though I am usually the fastest at a gokart track! (haha, that was a joke) All I can say is I understand what needs to be done when racing, I just may not be able to do it yet. I have just recently picked up a 1999 FRC. The car is awsome! (except the clutch) Leaves alot to be desired in HP area as well but handles very well. I think that with a few small upgrades would be very competetive in the T1 class.

So, I have decided to try and get my parents and I into an endurance race of some sort or something similar. (remember I dont know much) I also decided that starting out on a road course instead of auto x would be the best plan. (I am sure some of you will disagree, but I believe practice as you would play.) Learning to shift correctly is very important in almost all types of racing. I would like to get us into track days with coaches that can tell us what we are doing incorrectly. Then I would like for us to move to competitive racing. Using my FRC in T1 or something similar. If you guys think I am going the wrong route let me know.

My main concerns are power to weight. My mother at race weight will be a solid 100 lbs lighter than me, my dad, 20lbs more, unless he gets serious in which case he will be lighter than me, but not much. I will most likely be 205 or so.(I havn't been below 190 since basic training, and that was 5 years ago!) Unfortunatly the Infantry made me kinda broad. The car goal is a 500+ rwhp GTM race car. ie no extras. I can def see all this being done. It may take 2 years or 10 but it is possible. We may not be competitive but it will be fun.

In the end I atleast want them to get around a track and try and build a car. My dad has, just not a road racer.

Well thats about all I can say in my current mindset! Let me know what you guys think!

On a side note, if anyone knows someone with gtm in the DFW area that would let me take a look at it in real life I would appreciate it!

I am also going to post this on the GTM site!

John Shiels

Welcome to road racing where you can break the tires lose at over 130 mph but you may be in a corner when it happens not going straight. Takes more than a few mods to be competitive in T-1. First thing you should do is attend some events to watch' Then try some HPDE's in the seat along with who ever else wants to learn.

yakisoba

I'd start out with the car mostly stock and hit up some DE's. You're lucky to be in Texas. Eagles Canyon, MSR Cresson, TMS are all tracks close to you (relatively). Heck, Hallet in Tulsa is in striking distance for you.

See how they like the DE scene. If so, the next step is a comp license.

I would suggest that time trials are a LOT less likely to result in car-to-car contact than racing. Time trials are also indirect competition, which has a different appeal than direct (beating the other guy would be direct comp, beating the clock would be indirect). Time trials will also get your line perfected, so you can go racing and know enough to screw it up when you need to! Good luck.

sothpaw2

Definitely I would start w/ a HPDE before you dump any money into the car. See if your family likes it.

Having drag raced a bit, I would say HPDE is a lot more involved (time consuming & needing a lot more driving skills) then drag racing. Don't think it's safer or cheaper. Not sure if you considered sharing drag racing thru the '99 hardtop instead of the modded WS6.

a

redtopz

Auto-x might be the best way to share the sport with your parents actually. They are relatively cheap and easy to participate in and there is time to socialize with eachother and other drivers. Thinking from your parents perspective, they may not be as interested in road racing competitively as you are (just a guess). You may want to pursue that on your own or you could all go to some HPDE's together. But I see lots of families involved in auto-x and they seem to really enjoy it.

VetteDrmr

I definitely agree with the posts about trying the DEs in this area. The Driver's Edge (www.thedriversedge.net) runs out at MSR Cresson regularly. They set you up with an instructor until they solo you for your run group, and make you go through the basics when you start, regardless of any other experience you have. It's an excellent organization.

Other groups that run DEs in this area are the local BMW and PCA groups.

Finally, join us at some autocrosses in the area. The BMW group I run with uses a bus lot at TMS, a huge lot out at Mineral Wells, and a couple of other locations in the west half of the metroplex.

Here's a video of a run at the TMS bus lot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QowaUEaL_A

and out at Mineral Wells

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vEzK1vESDU

I also wouldn't do any mods to your FRC right now; just do a good fluids flush on *everything* (brake fluid is the one most folks getting started miss), check your brake pads, and have a blast!

PM me if you want to chat more about local stuff.

Have a good one,
Mike

Jim 47

Jeff: On the surface your plan sounds pretty agressive, especially your decission to get your parents involved in road racing. Since you admittedly have little to no experience in road racing, and I would guess, your parents have even less knowledge and experience, I would strongly suggest that you and your parents get exposed to the world of High Performance Driver Education (HPDE).

Probably the best way to do this is to contact an organization that puts together such events and volunteer your and your parents time to help run their event. These organizations usually need people for registration, technical inspection, flag stations, and a host of other duties. There will be lots of opportunities to interface with very knowledgeable organizers, drivers and workers so you can begin to build your knowledge base in this sport.

As your knowledge base expands various things will come into focus such as: what your/your parents' ultimate goals are, what car(s) you want to drive, what modifications you think would be appropriate for your level of ability and skill, what budet level will support your plan for you and your parents, and how much time you and your parents can afford to dedicate to this sport.

If you truely want to get you and your parents into an endurance race, there are literally thousands of things you will have to address, and tens of thousands of dollors you will have to spend, not to mention the proper licensing for such a verture. If however you want to learn the sport and be involved on a Hobby level, such as most of the guys and gals on this forum are, then call your local HPDE organizer, get involved, and let you specific plan develop through your accumulating knowledge of the sport.

I hope you find a clear path that will satisfy your desire to involve your family and have fun in this challenging and very enjoyable sport.

Jim Helm

#1 TA WS-6

I guess I wasnt as clear about the rout I was going to take as I thought. haha

I def will be attending HPDEs. Hell even Tiger has a coach!
My parents seem very interested in it right now but that may change when actual competition comes into play. Also I will be keeping the vette stock for now being that I probably can not drive to its potential yet. Also I was under the impression that T1 was a nearly stock class? I myself am def in it to compete. I will start with HPDEs then time trials if they are diffrent from one another. I may try to take them to atleast see a road racing event and a Auto x event, and let them decide which. Am I incorrect in assuming an FRC with T1 suspension kit and zo6 heads and cam would be competitive? T1 will probably be along way off anyway, I just want to get my head around that before something like a MAJOR endurance event! I also understand it will be expensive. This is a very long plan, not something that is going to happen in 2 weeks. I would appreciate if you guys could tell me where to look for Auto X events at.

yakisoba

Touring 1 is stock in that the engine and some other elements of the car have to remain stock... But it's a long way from what you might think of as stock.

Run some DE. If you are competitive, give SCCA and NASA driver education a try and shoot for your comp license. One sure thing: All wheel to wheel racing requires a roll cage, as far as I know. That's a big step, and will affect the value of the car. It's also a large expense to do right, and you want to do it right. Time trials do not require that, and are quite competitive. Believe me, we have some fast guys in the Texas time trial scene.
Race == beat the other guy to the line
time trial == have the fastest lap in the session.
HPDE == learn how to drive your insane fast car to its potential and your own, while learning to respect the other folks on track.

Bill Dearborn

Not sure how old your parents are at this point but going fast on a road course is no where near what going fast is on a drag strip. Depending on the course your stock FRC is capable of speeds of at least 140 mph. At the strip there are no turns where you have your foot to the floor until the braking point and when you pass the finish line you slow down on the road course you are wide open throttle until its time to brake and then the braking is as minimal as needed. Once the turn is made it is back on the throttle again. If you haven't run through a series of turns (like the esses at the Glen) at over 100 mph at full throttle or heading down the chute to turn 6 looking at a bunch of trees in front of you at an increasing speed you don't realize what a thrill it is. For novices keeping the foot on the floor while the car is seemingly headed at a wall is very intimidating. It is also physically demanding. Spending several hours per day in the car pulling Gs can make your neck sore, your arms and legs tired and the heat will increase the chance of dehydration.

You may be able to do these things but are your parents ready for it. I am 66 and have been doing this since I was 50. When I started I really felt the strain now I really really feel it. The only salvation is that it is like being hooked on drugs. The adrenaline high is great.

Bill

95jersey

It's all about money. I have a $65k car and HPDE costs me easily over $7000k per year. The running costs are probably cheaper with a brand new car, but bigger up front cost. An older car will be the exact opposite. I can imagine being competitive in T1 probably costs several times this (note 7 X $7000 = $49,000) , so are you ready to spend what is considered by some a yearly wage on something you've never even tried? I would run T1 in a heatbeat if I hit the $500k lotto, would run World Challenge if I hit the $10M lotto, would run ALMS if I hit the $200M lotto! I easily make 3-4 times this and consider it not enough money to run T1.

Put the Jack Daniels down and go back to the party.

John Shiels

wait till you get your tire bill especially id racing to win.

#1 TA WS-6

Alright guys, I get the whole money thing. I have said that this is all a very rough plan. Lots of room to grow. Or shrink I guess.

I have over 80k in my race car so i guess I would say I am ready to pay for what I like. Its not like I have never been fast either. I raced my GSXR 1k at VIR many times while I lived up in DC. If you think 140 is bad try 170+ in the same spot and trying to use your body as an air brake! I wasnt going to bring up the fact that I had been on a track with a diffrent type of vehicle. Mostly because I dont think the 2 are closly related enough to matter. Except for some of the basic line stuff. I am glad you guys are all trying to warn! But this plan is a very long plan. this is not all going to happen by Saturday or anything.

95jersey

It's all good, were not trying to be mean . But if you are as comitted as you sound, why not try 2 or 3 HPDE's to see how you like being on a road course first. I think you would agree that it is a smart decision and spending a few hundred dollars to try something out is better than building a T1 car to find out it's not your thing...right?

I have had a number of buddies that have tried it after I told them what I do, and 70% of them have dropped out in the first year, so for them, it was a cheap way to find out that HPDE or road racing in general was not for them.

John Shiels

What type of times do bikes put down at VIR and for which course? Thanks just curious!

MungoZ06

I am uniquely not qualified to offer advice ... but two things I don't think I read were:
If you want to go SCCA T-1, cheaper to buy someone's car than build your own.
Don't discount something like Spec Miata when getting into the competition scene.
FWIW ...

#1 TA WS-6

I guess it depends on the course but I usually pulled in the mid 1:30s on the north course except for one time I went when I had everything right I went 1:29.3.
The reason for the big gap was true race tires and about 30 more RWHP. I wasnt sure if you were trying to call me out or were actually curious. Very similar to a race bike in power but I was still at my best over 5 seconds slower than the pros. They look like they are going to run off the course all the time!! haha