Jaraxle_LS6

Just wanted to warn everyone on here, that the toyo t1r tires are NOT suitable for HPDE. I needed a set of tires, and the tiredepot had them for a great price. They DO ride nice. They DO perfrom well on legal roads in the rain... With that said. I've had them on the car for a month or so, and just did my first HPDE of the year. I've done HPDE's since 2005, and I've never slid around like I did with the T1R's. THEY ARE NOT SAFE for HPDE. I was running stock (pred tune), with carbotech xp-8 pads and new rotors. I knew the tires were going to be bad when they squeeled and skidded when I was bedding in the pads on public roads at legal speeds !
The HPDE was with the PCA at watkins glen international. My buddy brought his STI which come with those rock'in protenza tires that have a tread wear of 140. He took me through the corners like I was standing still ! His instructor could see that my back end was sliding (when it wasn't UNDERsteering), and asked my buddy "what are you going to do when he spins?"..
I also usually have the car pegged in 4th from before turn 2, and then shift to 5th at the top heading into the back straight. I had an instructor with me (don't ask why, I've been signed off twice!) and he told me not to do that again with these tires. The car gets light going up the esses and he knew the car was barely hanging on as it was. Anyhow, I still had a good time, but WILL NEVER use the toyo t1r's on the track again. I've heard good things about the falken rt-615, and have ridden in a wrx on the track with them, and they stick well. I made a mistake in relying on a review on this forum, where someone was saying how great the t1r's were on the track. You could take the F1 supercar tires, butter them with lard from a lyposuction facility in LA and butter your tires with it......they would be better than the toyo's !

The car either plowed (understeer) or the rear end slid. All the while the tires were crying for relief. My only hope is that one day these tires end up at a power-plant that burns tires... Maybe someone will like the electricity they produce, cause they don't produce good lap times !

I couldn't hit the appex on the "outer loop", unless I killed my speed to reduce the understeer. Going into the "shoot" was ok, but the toe was a rear end sliding experience. The off camber corner was a nightmare, and so was turn 11. Anyhow, I hope someone reads this and buys the RIGHT tires for the job. If you drive like grandpa, and in the rain... you'll love these tires for their nice ride.

~Jaraxle

hrtracer

I disagree. I had Toyo T1 R's on my '01Z and was running with a Porsche 911 on Michelin PILOT SPORT CUPS, they are not R compound but they are great for street tires. I have since switched to a Nitto NT-01 315 18 inch in the rear with a Michelin Pilot sport cup 18 inch 285up front on 18inch CCW classics.

My street tires (when I finally decide on rims) will be Toyo T1 R's

See In-Car video of '01 Z06 on T1 R's:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0wpDi9H3ts

Check out my website for more IN-CAR video:
http://www.getseattime.com/photo_album.html

Z06cool

I used these as my compromise street/track tire when the car served dual purpose. It's a street tire, it's not an R-compound like Kumho 710 or Hoosier A6/R6 which I use now because I have a different set of track wheels. Yes they squealed like crazy but they gripped alot better than the F1 Supercars that came stock with the C5Z. I just learned to drive within their limits. Obviously slower but it wouldn't be dangerous as long as you can feel their thresholds.

c4cruiser

Did you try adjusting tire pressures? Sometimes that can make a big difference.

VetteDrmr

Three things came immediately to mind:

1. What tire pressures were you running hot?
2. What size tires are they?
3. (maybe most important) Do you know how old the tires are? Not how long *you've* had them, but a manufacturing code.

A friend of mine got a set of Sumitomo HTRs that were much, much, harder with virtually zero grip than his street tires. They wouldn't even hardly squeal, just slide. Much different experience than what others said. My guess is that he got a set of tires that were several years old (probably sitting in a warehouse) and just age-hardened.

Not saying that was your problem, but something to think about.

HTH, and have a good one,
Mike

CamaroAJ

i have them on my car for autocross and i am less than a second slower that the R comp tire vettes. they are great tires for the price.

Jahan

Toyo recommends running much higher -camber on their DOT-R's than most people run on their street car. I know on the R888 they recommend -2.5 to -5 degrees. If you are still running your street or stock alignment, you aren't even close to that, and that will have a big effect on grip.

Jaraxle_LS6

Guys - I guess I should expect such responses... So I'll try to summarize. I want to help someone making a tire decision. The only "ureka" that I saw so far, is if the tires are OLDER THAN dirt. I don't think so though, because to the nail/finger they do FEEL like a soft compound and of course there are no dry-cracks. I'll try to get a more scientific answer in the form of a build/make date... I guess I'll be back on that.

The tires were run on the same track at approx the same temp (ambient) as last year with F1 supercars. The tires are the FACTORY z06 sizes (265/45/17 and 295/35/18). Tire pressures were first tested at 30psi. I saw only a 6-8psi size, and the tread markers were about right. After talking with a pro-driver we decided to raise the front tires by 2psi to a start pressure of 32psi due to understeer. I believe his logic was that the tires were beyond there heat range, and we needed more pressure to decrease traction to have an end result of more overall traction... Whatever. I don't really care about that cause they were so aweful it wouldn't matter what pressure I set them at. As far as the "taking a porsche" comment above... I did "take" a brand new 911 turbo and other high performance cars..(elise) That is not really a quantitative measurement. My instructor said at the end about bumping me to the black group, which is the highest level in the PCA. I'm driving the pants off the z06, and the tires that I purchased (pending build date verification) are crap for HPDE at high levels. Above someone mentioned they will be his street tire soon. That is great. They are a GREAT street tire, and have a great water treat. They ride great on the public roads...

I hope I helped someone.
If I find out my tires somehow sat on a shelf and are as stale as an old box of cheerios, I'll make sure to come back on here and blame that. I watched the youtube video above, and it didn't seem that he was screeching and sliding like I was. I took digital video too, so once I dump that outa the camera I'll post it.

~Jaraxle

BQuicksilver

My friend a track with (who is a solid driver) ran them for a while and didn't care much for them. He quickly dropped time after swapping to Hankook RS-2's.

AU N EGL

Talk or listen to the guys who race speed world challenge. Toyo is the spec tire and they HATE THEM. Even new they dont stick wirth a darn.

This year SWGT went to the new R888. Just as bad as the RA1.
That said the Toyos do take a differnt driving style to get use too.

Once you figured out how much they do slip, and adjust for that slip, you will be fine

SouthernSon

I suppose my experience last weekend is not the norm. RA1's, 2 yrs old, heat cycled many times gave me a personal best time of 1:11 at BNA speedway roadcourse. I had several runs in this frame during the last session after the worn out tires got really hot. This 1:11 is 2 seconds better than my previous runs even on Khumo 710's. That said, the only difference in my setup are new torsion bars (adco). I run -3 camber. I did cord the tires on the last runs, they are shot.

I am now breaking in a set of R888's. Personally, I look at it this way; Any tire can give you good feedback on how to handle the setup. I am learning and find much to appreciate about finding the limits and working it for a just a little more. I just hope the R888's last a lot longer than my last A6 scrubs that lasted only 2 hours...... $560 !!!!....( I hurt!!) I figure I can learn a whole lot from cheaper tires for a while that's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Jaraxle_LS6

Please everyone keep in mind that my post was to warn people about the Toyo T1R STEET tire, to be used as an HPDE tire at the high levels these cars are capable of. I have no info about the r-compound products by Toyo. The F1 supercars were good for HPDE, and I will probably test the Falken RT-615's later this year.

As I mentioned above. The T1R is good for public roads (steet) use, and has a great rain tread.

~Jaraxle

B-ras

I have no experience with the t1r so I can't comment. But, out of curiosity, if you're a relatively fast and capable HPDE driver, why are you on street tires at all? I only ran a few events on street tires before I picked up a set of track wheels and r-comps, and I couldn't imagine going back.

sothpaw2

Many orgs I have run with want you on street tires until you're signed off. I like the F1SC's as a good mulit-role tire in that i could use them at the drag strip if I wanted to do so. Also, the more tire you put on, wheel bearings and brakes will wear faster with the increased cornering& braking grip.

So these Toyos were worse than the F1SC's? Surprising. I like the Nitto RII and I thought the Toyo R1 was similar.

JimbeauZ06

[QUOTE=hrtracer;1565672534]I disagree. I had Toyo T1 R's on my '01Z and was running with a Porsche 911 on Michelin PILOT SPORT CUPS, they are not R compound but they are great for street tires. I have since switched to a Nitto NT-01 315 18 inch in the rear with a Michelin Pilot sport cup 18 inch 285up front on 18inch CCW classics.

to disagree

I ran T1Rs at 14 HPDE days last year, and while I certainly prefer my Nitto 555RIIs by a long shot, I was faster than a whole lot of guys running full R compounds. Granted, I was making a whole lot more noise than they were as the T1Rs do scream when you push 'em hard.

Jaraxle_LS6

I don't have dedicated track tires because I don't have a tire trailer on my z06 yet (as my friend does) and I have to drive 3.5hrs to get to the glen. I used to live by there, and all my buddies run at the same time. very fun.... very fun....
I DO have a second set of factory z06 wheels. I try to do at least 4 track days a year, so for cost saving a great sticky street tire will do. If I did more......then a trailer and R-compounds would be in order.

I didn't feel that the T1R's were anywhere near the F1 supercars, and I wanted to warn anyone else thinking that they were...as I obviously did. Now I have yet to check the build date on these tires to rule out that they are older than dirt, but I don't think so... just a gut feeling.

As far as "I was faster than so and so"... That doesn't really give any comparitive information. On the T1R's I did "beat" a brand spanking new 911 turbo. It just means that driver wasn't using the machine to its capabilities for whatever reason. I did an HPDE last year on F1's at the same track at the same temperature, with the same car, and now with the T1R's... That is a comparison...
The T1R toyo's are crap on the track compared to the F1 supercars. That is my opinion, and unless I find out my tires are "stale" then I would not recommend the tires for HPDE go'ers... That was the point of my post. I hope it helped someone make a decision. They are great street tires. I just wanted to make that point too.

~Jaraxle

sothpaw2

Thanks for the info. Maybe for next year you could try a pair of Nitto R-II's for your rear axle. You'll still push the front but at least you won't risk a spin. Otherwise, I guess you'll just have to daily drive that Z until those tires are gone.