jwt1603

I was wondering how long everyone thinks we have left to keep doing HPDE and auto-x (on an amateur level, not pro teams). Not being negative of course, just kind of thinking about it.

I see several factors coming together that threaten to close down or severely limit our sport / hobby / passtime / outlet / whatever you want to call it.

For the HPDE group we have environmentalists and urban sprawl taking away sites and / or making them very close to prohibitively expensive.

Then for the auto-xers large parking lots, municipal airports, etc are either unavailable due to more business hours or the owners get scared off by the potential liability issues.

Then you have the general state of the economy. And more directly for us, the cost of fuel for tow vehicles and the race car itself. As more racers stop going to events due to reductions in available discretionary income the events either have to get more expensive to stay in business or close down.

Oh well, just wondering what people thought, I didn't mean to get anyone riled up....

beerkat

I doubt that you did. It's an open ended question that has no right answer.

I will play until I can not. Whether it be due to no play grounds or for other reason. I just hope that it is not anytime soon.

ERND IT

Joe -
Many in the Carolinas are thinking along the same lines... auto-x sites for our SCCA and NCCC groups are fading fast and it seems that not many new prospects are available to look into.

Hi-speed events seem to be gaining in attendance, however. Probably because they are going to dedicated tracks where the folks are aware of the liabilities, both competitors and track owners. We have Roebling Road, CMP, and VIR all within about 200 miles, so at least we have some choices.

Gas prices are another story... personally, I have cut way back on my travel, choosing instead to stay closer to home for track time/autox events... my guess is most people are doing this, too - at least until we can't justify the cost to travel vs "fun" factor

95jersey

Insurance issues will be the first thing to shut this down. Environmentalist will not shut down big money generating NASCAR courses. The road course are more at risk, but many of them have already survived 40+ years, so it is possible, plus they are building new ones left and right. Even $5 a gallon isn't gonna stop someone already buying $1500 tires and $400 brake pads and so on. Gas is expensive, but try buying brake pads and tires for a C6Z and you got a new perspective.

I will run until the last track pulls the plug! Right now, I think HPDE is probably in a "golden age". I looked at an overall schedule of events just in the NE and they are in the hundreds. Just at Pocono you could get a few dozen days.

John Shiels

Economy will slow it down. Fuel prices I paid 5.25 yesterday and it was 190.00 to fill my truck. I have gone to VIR twice and both times were bad after 13 hr each way. Torque tube one year and I was sick. Second year newly built tranny took a crap and I was sick again. I was looking to go again for the Fall Fling this year (and test my luck) but fuel will most likely put me off it. Tires will go up in prices as everything seems to be.

Some years I did 30-40+ days but not anymore. I have no idea if they will be any construction work for me to bid on as public budgets are strained. I have had pet problems and lack of work to stop me, I have a ton of work now and little time but if I had the time I have no confidence in spending 1,000 bucks plus or minus for a track day.

Good news is I paid 5.00 for diesel today instead of 5.25 a few days ago. Oil futures dropped today to 126 or 122 I forgot but it will hopefully stop all the people speculating on oil futures and drop the price back 75-1.00 or more. For me 3.50 for diesel is not great but where I feel oil should be.

Insurance companies are getting wise to the fact a driving school need not be 165 MPH so it will keep people off track and others driving more sanely when they know they have no insurance I hope.

Falcon

I see fuel costs as the biggest future impediment to track events. There are lots and lots of people that are not going to events because of fuel costs. I was talking to a friend who told me that a SCCA event had to be cancelled because of low car counts. If NASA didn't combine their HPDE's with racers during the weekend, they might be seeing the same thing.

Although, the Roebling Road event a couple of weeks ago was as full as I've ever seen that track. Go figer!

fire_n_ice

A trend I am seeing is the "private" or "country club" facility for track drivers. I've seen ads for a few of them now and wonder if they are seeing good member enrollment. Works for me. Some guys spend thousands each year on a golf membership so they can play every day. I'd pay at least the same amount to have daily access to a private (or even semi-private) track. As long as the track is good.

beerkat

Many people figured they go ahead and do them now because it is going to get more expensive before it gets cheaper.

If that becomes the case then I guest I would end up at CMP since it is the closes to me. I have mixed emotions about that. It's not VIR but I like it better than Roebling with the 5 hour drive.

John Shiels

Paying 100-200K+ or more for a memebership at a track is not in my budget. Even if it was who would want to go to the same track all the time? Fuel and tols for me is over 350 for the day and that is 130 mile tow each way. Rotors, pads, and tires it's a grand. If I was racing it may be more fun. HPDE is getting old. If I was adding new mods it makes it fun to see what they gain.

jwt1603

I haven't done much high speed but I agree with the thoughts here that the "club" racing is going to be the way to go.

I wonder if Daytona will open up their road course to something like that? It's either there or Roebling for me. Sebring is cool (not in August, the last time I ran it!) but it's tough to get to from here.

I guess I'll have to trade in my Carbotech AX pads for some XP-10s.

jwt1603

Yikes! I didn't think they were that much. I thought that was if you bought the condo and the garage "on site" and they had day visitor packages priced significantly less. I admit I didn't look into it that closely on the few ads I've seen but boy that's out of my league.

John Shiels

Yes Lime Rock went to that plus yearly fee's. It might have been 300,000

John Shiels

Dayton did one last year for the first time.

varkwso

I think insurance will be the one to make or break the events.

Insurance killed the muscle cars in the '70s and 15 Pax vans more recently.

My event count is down but it is still around 24-28 a year - more are closer then farther..

0Randy@DRM

TO run at Slim Rock???

beerkat

I never have been to Lime Rock before but I can not imagine having to paid $300,000 a year for track time.

The Palmetto Club (CMP) is $7000 for the first year and $5500 after that. That is their Gold level that gives you 52 track days plus other benefits

http://www.carolinamotorsportspark.c...embership.html

Timz06

I don't think there is anything to worry about. There is still an abundance of events. I try to be discriminating and just do the best events to save money...I have been doing this for a while. Events close to home are good, Road atlanta, and barber...I took cmp off my schedule. Still do vir since it is so great it is worth the money to drive.

I do a lot of Chin events, and they have sold out just about everything this year. The sky is not falling...yet.

John Shiels

you are buying a life time memebership or even partial owner at the ship track. I think you can sell it with their approval but even the yearly fees were big. I would get sick of the same track day it day out The place doesn't have one decent bathroom that doesn't look Third World. No where to change like Pocono or VIR it is a dump with millions of people near by in NY CT PA NJ. I think there were more events there than any track in the country and the most expensive but Skip the _ick Barber always could not fix the place up. He was selling bumper sticker I helped pave LRP for 5 bucks! I think AMLS told him pave the pits or we won't be back. Race teams looked like Home Depot with all the plywood they needed to stay out of the mud. Now they went to 4 HPDE's and it is still packed for the same price. Same track time just you have no time between sessions I hear.

When I raced boats 80's -90's there would be 125-140+ at some events. Now they cut classes and the events are down to 35 boats and a few classes. They are mostly big boats costing 500,000 to millions. It just got to expensive but the ultra rich. Now with fuel it must be even worse.

95jersey

NJ Motorsport Park is 35 minutes from my front door and totally flat for towing, and they have 2 tracks to choose. So, if I get bored of one, I can try the other for a while. There are already 10 clubs with a few days each, so track time is abundant. It will save me a LOT of money compared to traveling to the Glen, Lime Rock or even Pocono. No more meals, big gas bills or hotel expenses. I am so STOKED. Even if I have to pedal a darn bike around that thing, I am going to be there!

jwt1603

Yeah, I was out of town for work. It was the Audi club as I recall and it was pretty expensive. Daytona would be neat to run but I can't do 500+ per day plus expenses.