kedvesh

Bottom line--
Should I add a roll bar (not cage; not harness bar) and harnesses to my beast?

Discussion--
I've been debating the merits of mod'g my 'Vette even more from stock and adding a welded-in roll bar for over a year and want to get some fresh opinions on the whole prospect.

Since 2003, I've driven about four to five HPDE weekends a year at tracks such as Sebring, Road Atlanta, Road America and VIR.

In 2005, my engine morphed to 383 cu in and 560+ HP. Other than the air/fuel management system (intake, engine, exhaust), clutch, diff, suspension and brake hoses/pads, everything else hardware-wise is pretty much untouched. It looks stock.

My current set of driver's safety equipment includes helmet, neck brace and what GM put in the 'Vette (sport seats and standard seat belts.)

Some people run their 'Vettes at HPDEs the same as I am currently set up to do--stock belts only. Some run them with harness bars and harnesses. Still others add a bolt-in roll bar (removeable if you want to sell the car, face issues with state laws on roll bars in street vehicles, etc.) And then there are those who weld-in a roll bar.

NCCC rules dictate that to run one of their sponsored events, I need to have a roll bar due to the engine's current output. Some sanctioning or sponsoring bodies dictate that the roll bar must be welded vice bolted in.

Also, even though the car is no longer stock, I'd like to keep it looking stock as much as possible. Furthermore, while the engine power and age of the car ('02 w/ 96K miles on the frame, close to 30K on the engine) may turn off some potential buyers (if I ever decide to sell it), the addition of a welded-in roll bar will probably limit the market for the car. Then there's the current gas crisis--will I actually run as many events as I have in the past?

Summary--
Yes, I have the track bug and want to be as safe as possible when I'm out there. However, I hesitate to turn what could still be a daily driver into more of a track-only car.

BTW, in about 30 days, I get back from a military deployment to the big sandbox and will have the means and time to make changes to the beast if I choose to do so.

So...whattayathunk? Bar or no bar? Bolt-in or welded? Those are the questions.

Thanks in advance for the constructive remarks!

Solo2GS

Adding a roll bar vs. cage will not take any drivability away from the car on the street. It will stiffen up the chassis a bit, but who can complain about that!

If done by the right shop and welded in it will look very nice. Have them redo the carpet around the bar and it looks sharp.


This is a DRM bar in my C4 that I had weld in and the carpet replaced. It came out very nice and eye catching.

I once skidded off track at 100+ and was thinking the whole time "please don't let me test the roll bar out today". Better to play it safe!

Personally I think it adds to the look of my GS. Most think it came with it as its such a clean install!

You don't get $ per $ for mods when selling. Chances are with the engine upgrade you would be looking at a buyer who wants to track the car to begin with. The DRM bar runs $495 + about the same for installation.

76stingracer

Weld in roll bar at a minimum. I have seen a C4 hit a wall and land upside down. The car turned into a convertible and the window frame was bent flat to the dash. Not a pretty picture and makes you take a second look at the safety gear you use.

With the stroked motor alone puts your car in Group III per NCCC rules. This requires you to have a roll bar, fire suit and various other safety items to run at a NCCC speed event.

Check the groups you might run with on the rules and regulations to decide on the correct type of bar and safety equipment that is required and items you might want to add (hans device, race seat w/correct slots for harness, fire suppression, ect.).

A welded in roll bar can be cut out to restore the car to original if need be with little effort.

WNDOPDLR

When my C4 was still a combo street/track car, I put in an R&D roll bar and welded it in. It will reduce visability a little, but you will adjust to using your side mirrors more. If you have a carpet/upholstery shop reinstall the trim, it will be very attractive. You will benefit from less flex in the chassis and my prayer is that you never need to benefit from the added protection.

Thank you for your service to us and our country. Enjoy your time at home and visit us at VIR.

AU N EGL

Roll over is not that big of chance. But side impact into another car, or tires, armco or concrete walls is much higher. Side impact is more important then roll over.

So the NASCAR door bars of a Roll cage are the biggest protector IMO

davidfarmer

I mostly agree with Tom. The c5/c6 has great rollover protection already, and possibly the strongest passenger car frame on the road. Unlike pretty much all european and japanese cars, the Vette has a real, boxed frame as well as a steel b-pillar hoop (Z06 is aluminum).

It is a big step to adding door bars to a street car, so unless you want a complete cage, I wouldn't bother with any roll bar unless you are running somewhere that requires it (time trials with some groups, for instance).

I personally don't like racing seats or harnesses in street cars that I track. The comfort trade off just isn't worth it. Sure I end up with sore elbows and knees after a weekend at the track, but I don't get as many bruises as I get attempting to deal with harnesses and wrap-around seats back on the highway.

bowtiguy

I too have considered a 4 point bar VS. my soon to be installed BK harness bar and carvaggio seats. I'll run the harness bar / 5 point belts this year but will have to step up to a 4 point bar if I plan on running the high speed event at next years NCCC convention in my bored and stroked C6Z.

any suggestions of a good 4 point bar out there???

GettReal

I decided to WELD in a 6pt roll bar and both driver and passenger bars being can be removed when I'm street driving it. Heres the difference for me though, I will probably track my car 10-12 times this year and its a convertible. It made sense to be safe in a hobby I enjoy. I'm not on the track for money or points, just pure personal enjoyment. I love my car and dont plan on selling it so the rollbar decision was easy. The last few track days Ive been to had people into the walls each time, so it DOES happen. By the way, you can always cut out a welded rollbar if you want.

OCCOMSRAZOR

When I started down that road, there were many people that brought up the danger of having a roll bar in a street car, and the potential injury to one's head should you have a "significant" collision when you aren't in a proper harness or wearing a helmet.

No one has mentioned that yet, so maybe it's no big deal...

Whatever you do, don't try and go "cheapo" with safety equipment. When it is installed and used properly, it definately is a life saver. (Don't ask me how I know... )

jrz1

OCCOMSRAZOR - it is something to consider for those that use their car on the street a lot.

Tavarez

Anyone more good pics people can share?

Falcon

My head has been beaten around on the inside of the cage in my race car so much, it feels like a pinball. My helmet has so many rub marks and smacks all over it I can't imagine being in a street car with a rollbar/cage without a helmet. I could see a concussion without it.

jbusmc1986

how about with foam padding on the roll bar?

jrz1

I'd still be concerned. There just is not much room between top of seat and where roll bar would be positioned. If the seat fails or flexes or whatever else, your head is close to that bar and 1-2" of padding aint going to help the noggin in a big collision.

Carl Johansson

So are you saying that not having a roll bar would be a plus in a rollover accident? helmet or not - given a roll over ?-

I guess I like my chances with a roll bar vrs without. In my case - my risk of rolling while on a closed course are significant - while my chances of rolling while tooling around the hills is minimal (I save it for the track) so for me - i wouldn't dream of taking a car to a road course track without a minimum of a roll bar - and if it's wheel to wheel - you wouldn't catch me out there without a full cage.

But thats just me. From where I sit - I assume sooner or later - my fault or not - I'm gunna end up in a bad situation on a track - so given that - I go into it with excellent safety gear - the safety gear takes precedent of cosmetics, horsepower, or any other concern! So I don't skimp on the dollars when it comes to safety items.

Carl " I know I'm a safety ****" Johansson

Bimota Guy

I imagine you put on as much safety gear as possible where you are. Do the same at the track. Rollbar and at least a 5-pt harness. Get a HANS or R3. Wear a fire suit.

I have a 4-pt bolt-in in my street car. I installed a racing seat and harness when going to track days (simple to do.) The roll bar is a non-issue for daily driving.

Steet car:
http://picasaweb.google.com/bimotaguy/2003EBZ06

I will say I decided not to do the high speed tracks until I got a car with a full cage...
http://picasaweb.google.com/bimotaguy/T1Car

RC45

Did that Autopower rollbar block the rearview mirror at all?

AU N EGL

YES FIA high density foam padding is a must for any place with in 6" a human body part my come in contact with.

Bill Hetzel

Tom's right, there's a huge difference in rollbar padding. The foam padding that many use will keep you from getting a boo-boo on your head while you're getting in and out of the car. The SFI padding is designed for high impact.
It's actually SFI-45.1, though there may be FIA padding available too, FIA's rating some helmits now too.

If you can push your thumb into the padding, it's the cheapo stuff. If you can't even depress it, it's probably SFI. And the SFI padding is usually marked on the inside.

yakisoba

If you are worried about resale value on your car after changing out the engine and so forth like you did... I dunno. I don't think I'd worry about it. If you like what you're doing and the car is doing well, mod it and worry about resale later on.

Roll cages done right make it pretty hard to get in and out of the car, IMO. Not something I want to climb in and out of with a briefcase, or take anyone to lunch in.

You're definitely at a crossroads: Leave it streetable, swap the tires on weekends OR cage it, strip it, and get faster. Good luck in your choice, and do what makes you happy in the sport.