kermooni

Which is best for Midwest early spring and late summer / early fall HPDE?

EvilBoffin

Well, unless you're sniffing around for fastest lap times, the A6 is probably major overkill for HPDE's. It would be great for a qualifying or TT session, but won't last long enough to be justifiable for 'non-competitive' events.

The R6's will not come up to temp (or overheat) as quickly, but they'll probably be more consistent & dependable throughout an entire weekend. Remember that you usually get more lap time at a DE weekend then the typical roadracer does. Most people would be more then happy with R6's for DE's.

I'll bet that some people would even consider the R6's as overkill for DE's. So it all depends on how serious you are about your track time...
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kermooni

I am pretty serious ... If you do sometghing, you might as well do it right. Both my instructors told me I was ready for slicks and should not waste my money and time with intermediates. They will only delay the inevidable. So, how do A6 and R6 compare? I am more concerened with morning track performance - up here it can be a bit chilly in the morning and 80's by mid-day

My daily drivers (PS2s) will be along for those frosty mornings

I am getting ready to turn my car into a tracker either for 2009 or 2010 season That is why CCW C10s are going on it for my Sept event at Road America.

EvilBoffin

Sorry, I re-edited my post after you quoted me... Maybe it makes more sense now...

I think of the A6's as more of a 'qualifying' tire for road racing. Someone with experience running both tires on a real track would have to offer any direct comparison though, cause I only intend to use A6's for autocrossing & R6's for road courses.

Of course, with any dedicated road-race tire (especially REAL slicks), you must be very careful until they really come up to temp. Just ask DE instructor Jim Zilisch (JRZ1) - he recently went off & badly damaged his C6Z because he thought his real slicks were ready to be hammered when they weren't. That was on the 3rd consecutive day of running the car at VIR in July, in mid-80's sunny weather.
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Feffman

Gents, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the A6 and autocross tire? I've run the Hoosier R6 on my CTS-V at track days and love the way it performs. It at least gives me a fighting chance of keeping up with the Vettes!!

You may want to contact Eric Frisby at Frisby Tire (www.FrisbyRaceTire.com) to discuss tire chocies, but I think you'll be happy with the R6.

Feff

mikahb

If you're not stuck on Hoosier, I'd highly recommend the Kumho V710 for HPDE. It's sort of in between the A6 and R6 as far as grip, but has the longevity of the R6. A6's are definitely faster, but you will completely use a set up in a single HPDE weekend - they'd be toast after that. The R6's will last several weekends, but my car is faster on well-used 710's than it is on sticker R6's.

A new set of 710's will give you a ton of grip, and you can probably get 4 or 5 weekends out of them depending on how hard you run the car and what level of grip you're willing to live with.

One other thing to keep in mind when switching from PS2's to race rubber is to find the limits gradually - the warnings that a race tire gives you when it's about to give up are more subtle than street tires and you just need to make sure you're ready to listen to them before you flog them. You're going to love the extra grip though!!

magnetic1

I dont think running "intermediates" (as you call them) are a "wrong" thing to do. It isnt black/white, right/wrong.

How many events have you done? Unless you have lots of money to burn, getting Hoosiers for DEs are a waste of money. Get cheaper tires and spend that money on more DEs or driver development. That's just my opinion.

Of course if you had the cash... you could run sticker Hoosiers every DE and you'd be doing it right and win everytime. :P

Bink

I think some are ready for DOT slicks before others. Play it safe ...but if you're ready for slicks - go for it.

ScaryFast

Buy used R tires. Try several and see which ones you like. On any given day there are at least three posts here on the Forum from some of the racers selling Hoosiers, Kumho's, etc. with a handful of heat cycles on them for pennies on the dollar, usually about $75 each. Buying sticker tires (new ones, in case you're not up on the lingo) is a waste of your money...

To be more specific to the original question, the A6 is not an autocross tire, it's just a different compound. It is stickier by far, many can confirm lap time drops of 1.5 to 2.0 seconds over an R6, depending on track driven. However, while they will survive a sprint race, I've heard from a few people that they don't take as many heat cycles. Remember, a ten minute session is the same as a 40 minute session to a tire. Once it heats up, that's one heat cycle.

Falcon

Have you considered buying a set of used Hoosiers or Kumho's? That is a relatively cheap way to get where you want to go.

There's usually a set for sale here in the forum from those who use them in competition.

***** Scary already posted about the used tires while I was composing mine.

EvilBoffin

I didn't come straight out and say it, but -Yes- in Hoosier-speak, the A6 stands for "Autocross Competition Radial" & R6 for "Roadrace Competition Radial" based on the general intended use - been that way since they introduced the A3S0x / R3S0x series. However, in the context of road course use, many racers have found success using a set of A6's for qualifying and "The Big Race", when it's all on the line and every 10th counts. The A6 is just that much stickier.

So, does every 10th count for each DE session you run, especially if you run through a full set of tires each weekend (or quicker)? That decision is between you and your wallet...

And keep in mind, you can't drive either Hoosier to the track or in the rain. So, you WILL be using up your expensive PS2 street tires as rain tires, as well. That sounds like a big financial commitment for any non-competitive event ...

dvandentop

get the r6 you wont be disappointed and see you at RA in september for the bmw event

throwit

HPDE = Shaved Toyo RA1

TT & RR = R6 $$, A6 $$$

Sidney004

Grassroots Motorsports magazine's October issue on page 166, tested the A6. I will quote part of their conclusion " Lateral grip of the Hoosier
A6 increases with temperature, and it doesn't fall off at relatively high tread temperatures. What is lost at the higher temperatures is precision and feedback, potentially making inch-perfect car placement somewhat of a challenge. Road racers shouldn't fear running the A6 in a sprint race." Buy the issue and read the rest of the article.

If I were you and money was not an issue, I would get the A6's; as you know, a weekend trashing a Corvette is not exactly cheap anyways and faster is always better.

the blur

I run the A6 tire, but that is ONLY because I buy them used. If I were buying new, I'd buy the Kumho's.

IMO:
HPDE's are NOT about every second. It's about bringing the car home the way it arrived. Step back a few notches. Stop destroying rotors, stop cording tires.

Since I have backed off, I am saving so much time and money on rotors, brakes, tires, etc. I'm happier, the wife is happier. I did 4 years the hard way, now I go out for enjoyment. I can sit back in my chair, while watching people change their rotors, and bleed their brakes.

If you feel the need to compete, go for TT, or SCCA club racing.

ScaryFast

Yeah, what he said. I didn't even think of the Toyo's or the Nitto NT-01 because there a tiny bit slower. But for HPDE they're great, they last forever.

I do not recommend buying used A6's, I've talked to the Hoosier rep and he suggested that they do not allow the same number of heat cycles as an R6. In other words, an R6 with 4 cycles has plenty of life left, an A6 with the same is about dead...

I am repeating this information secondhand, though, so if those who have run A6's more than that this can offer laptimes to contradict I'd believe that over my information.

the blur

The hoosier rep was probably referring to COMPETITIVE tire life
of the A6 and R6. I run my tires to the cords, and that is when it is truly dead
The competitive life is very short, and that is what cost the money.

I have 30-35 cycles on my rear A6's. and that is not including the cycles from the T1 guy who I brought them from.
The front A6's don't last as long, I have to run higher presures to get decent tire life.

Lap times, I couldn't tell you, as I don't time myself.

kermooni

Look for the Yellow Vette ... It is a long drive from SD

Best.

kermooni

Thanks for the geeat advise. What sizes in each of the tires do you recommend?

I am getting the CCW C10's - 18x10 F and 18x11 R.

Thanks.

dvandentop

it is for the 2 day event so it will be worth it

only about 6 hours it think?