corded the outside of my r6 tires
#1
Race Director
Thread Starter
corded the outside of my r6 tires
does that mean too little pressure or pushing through the corners??
i didnt figure the way outer edge would sneak up as fast as they did.
there were used when i bought them but i got about 30-40 auto x runs and 100 road racing session minutes out of them. i figured that isnt too bad for 150 shipped for those 2.
i didnt figure the way outer edge would sneak up as fast as they did.
there were used when i bought them but i got about 30-40 auto x runs and 100 road racing session minutes out of them. i figured that isnt too bad for 150 shipped for those 2.
#4
Race Director
Thread Starter
well since i got the car aligned with a -1.6 up front i have added DRM custom bilsteins and also hotchkis sway bars, should i get it aligned again??
also i was running the hoosiers at 28lbs cold should i have them higher?
also i was running the hoosiers at 28lbs cold should i have them higher?
#5
Race Director
Derek
Take a look at this Hoosier site info:
http://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm
Click on the "Tire Info" link on the left, then on the "Tire Care Tips for R6 and A6 tires" link.
Scroll down to the chasis setup and pressure sections.
You're looking in the ballpark for cold pressures, but they recommend -2.5 to -3 degrees of camber.
Bob
Take a look at this Hoosier site info:
http://www.hoosiertire.com/rrtire.htm
Click on the "Tire Info" link on the left, then on the "Tire Care Tips for R6 and A6 tires" link.
Scroll down to the chasis setup and pressure sections.
You're looking in the ballpark for cold pressures, but they recommend -2.5 to -3 degrees of camber.
Bob
Last edited by BEZ06; 08-17-2008 at 12:15 AM.
#6
Team Owner
Little higher would help like 32-33 front. 30-32 rear ending at 40-42 hot on all. 1.6 is not really enough camber for them if you are running hard. There is very little rubber on a R tire. It tells you on the Hoosier site. I cut one with a diamond blade in a cut off saw If I have one left I cut it and post the picture.
#7
Race Director
Thread Starter
Little higher would help like 32-33 front. 30-32 rear ending at 40-42 hot on all. 1.6 is not really enough camber for them if you are running hard. There is very little rubber on a R tire. It tells you on the Hoosier site. I cut one with a diamond blade in a cut off saw If I have one left I cut it and post the picture.
if i up it to like 2.0 would that still be ok for street tires then also to be driven on usually without wearing them out quickly?
trying to dance the fine line of driving highways miles during the week and then being able to bolt on the wheels and be ready to race for the weekend. that is the hardest part
Here is the info on the hoosier webiste looks like the next front set i better jack up the pressure since i do alot more auto X then road course
TIRE CARE TIPS
FOR R6 & A6 TIRES
(Download Printable Version)
The R6 and A6 have been developed to improve wear and consistency without any sacrifice of performance. In many cases, the performance will even improve over previous models. The new tire models are an evolution in the continuing effort to provide the best tire for racers.
- Tire Break-In Procedure
- Tire Temperature Recommendations
- Chassis Setup Recommendations
- Tire Pressure Recommendations
- Things to Consider
Tire Break-In Procedure
Proper break-in will not affect initial performance but will increase the competitive life of the tire.
The procedure can be broken down into phases.
1st phase: The initial run
2nd phase: The length of the time the tire is allowed to "cure"
The Initial Run Heat Cycle
R6 Roadrace
The first laps for the tire are critical for setting up the durability and competitive life. The first session should consist of no more than 10-15 minutes of running. The early part of the session should be run at an easy pace, with the speed gradually increased until the end of the session. The final lap should be run at the fastest possible speed. The intent is to achieve maximum tire temp on the last lap. At this point the car should be brought in and the tires allowed to cool at a normal rate.
During the initial run-in process, the inflation pressure should be 3-5 psi higher than you would normally use. The best progression would have the driver taking 4-7 laps to accomplish this break-in. Each lap should be approximately 7-10 seconds a lap faster than the previous lap. The goal is to have the tire temp as high as possible on the last lap without "shocking" the tire during the warm up laps. In essence, no wheelspin, late braking, or sliding. The last lap should be at, or very close, the maximum possible.
A6 Autocross
For autocrossing, the A6 does not need the same break in procedure as the R6. The A6 needs a minimal scuff-in session before the first autocross run. This “session” can comprise of simply driving around the event site at minimal speeds on the A6 set of tires. By scrubbing off the newness of the tread (no or minimal shininess remaining) prior to your first competitive run, the A6 tires will be more consistent in handling, grip and responsiveness on the first run. If this is not completed, running on un-scuffed A6 tires on your first run may result in the tires not gripping properly, or feeling like they “skate” over the course surface. You are welcome to run 3 – 5 psi higher when scuffing in a new set of A6’s, but be sure to reset them to the correct operating pressures before your first autocross run. As you compile autocross runs on your new A6’s, they should become more consistent in run times.
"Cure" Time
After completing the initial run phase, the length of time the tire is allowed to set is possibly more important. The barest minimum for this process to be beneficial is 24 hours. (Not "the next day"). Any less than this is a waste of time. The best situation would allow a week before using the tire again.
Proper tire management is a difficult process. To accomplish this almost always requires a second set of wheels. The payoff is greatly increased competitive tire life.
Following the recommended break-in procedure will require a lot of planning to make it work. The benefits to doing it right include greatly increased tire life as well as consistent performance and durability under stress. Please make an effort to educate your team on the importance of this. It can save you a lot of money.
Tire Temperature Recommendations
For best performance the expected temperature range will vary from track to track. Generally, optimum traction will be generated when the pit lane temps show 180-200 degrees for the R6 in Roadrace applications, and 140-150 degrees for the A6 in an Autocross application.
Note: Use of static infra-red pyrometers is an inaccurate method to monitor tire temps.
Chassis Setup Recommendations
For optimum performance the Hoosier P-Metric radial tires require about 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in maximum performance to maximize wear. Generally, 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.
The Hoosier tires typically offer better performance with spring/shock rates higher than previous brands you may have run.
Tire Pressure Recommendations For Competition
Traditionally, Hoosier tires have often required higher pressures than other brands. This has changed with the A6/R6.
Roadrace/track applications
Vehicle size
Recommended Hot Pressure
Cold Pressure
1800-2200 lbs.
34-37+
26-31
2200-2600 lbs.
35-38+
27-32
2600-3000 lbs.
37-41+
27-32
over 3000 lbs.
38-43+
27-33
+Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.
One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure too far may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear rate.
Autocross applications
For autocross applications, your starting pressure for the first run should be within 1-2 psi of the recommended hot pressures shown above. After the first run and each subsequent run, keep resetting the pressures back to your target hot pressures before taking the next run. This way your tires are at the proper pressure during the bulk of every run you take.
The above chart is a general recommendation which is intended for a standard configuration vehicle (i.e. front engine, rear wheel drive). Factors which can radically affect your pressure set up would include front wheel drive, independent rear suspension, rear engine, McPherson vs. control arm front suspension.
#8
does that mean too little pressure or pushing through the corners??
i didnt figure the way outer edge would sneak up as fast as they did.
there were used when i bought them but i got about 30-40 auto x runs and 100 road racing session minutes out of them. i figured that isnt too bad for 150 shipped for those 2.
i didnt figure the way outer edge would sneak up as fast as they did.
there were used when i bought them but i got about 30-40 auto x runs and 100 road racing session minutes out of them. i figured that isnt too bad for 150 shipped for those 2.
Last year @ RA the hot shoe instructor, Sheilds, said to be fast you have to slide your car through the corners. I attemped to do that but ended up with a left front that was more metal than rubber.
My lack of talent abused the crown of my R6. My next time @ RA I got it right and let the tires live...RA is hard on brakes not tires.
Same tire pressures both times...if your temps are consistant inside, middle, outside on your tires...your pressures are good
#9
Race Director
Take a look at David's great site:
http://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
He has info on DIY alignments. You can get a Smart Camber gauge and Hardbar Toe Plates and you can do your own alignment and adjust it for track or street.
Hardbar and Pfadt also both have some good camber kits for easier adjustments.
Hardbar also has great attachments for your harness/sub-straps that you may need for your Caravaggios.
Bob
http://www.davidfarmerstuff.com/
He has info on DIY alignments. You can get a Smart Camber gauge and Hardbar Toe Plates and you can do your own alignment and adjust it for track or street.
Hardbar and Pfadt also both have some good camber kits for easier adjustments.
Hardbar also has great attachments for your harness/sub-straps that you may need for your Caravaggios.
Bob
#10
Race Director
Thread Starter
Yes, it means your pushing through the corners...now ask why your pushing through the corners.
Last year @ RA the hot shoe instructor, Sheilds, said to be fast you have to slide your car through the corners. I attemped to do that but ended up with a left front that was more metal than rubber.
My lack of talent abused the crown of my R6. My next time @ RA I got it right and let the tires live...RA is hard on brakes not tires.
Same tire pressures both times...if your temps are consistant inside, middle, outside on your tires...your pressures are good
Last year @ RA the hot shoe instructor, Sheilds, said to be fast you have to slide your car through the corners. I attemped to do that but ended up with a left front that was more metal than rubber.
My lack of talent abused the crown of my R6. My next time @ RA I got it right and let the tires live...RA is hard on brakes not tires.
Same tire pressures both times...if your temps are consistant inside, middle, outside on your tires...your pressures are good
mine got corded on the auto x last night and tonight, i also did MAM last weekend did 5 20 minute sessions there, and about 3 auto cross events on these used r'6. i will have alignment checked and maybe go more - on that and jack up the pressues for the auto x events. i didnt realize it was to be that high
#11
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Nov 2004
Location: Brule County South dakota
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Derek i run -2.0 camber on my car granted i don't street drive it as much as you do. Time to invest in a camber gauge buddy and do your own changeing ;-) Also i do think you over drive corners i watched you at the Corvette Autox and you seemed to really be blowing the corners pretty hard. but thats really the only chance i have had a chance to really watch you. And i don't know what it is the Corvette clubs autox's always have a good way of eating up tires. i know i always manage to cord my tires at one of there events lol
#13
Team Owner
trying to dance the fine line of driving highways miles during the week and then being able to bolt on the wheels and be ready to race for the weekend. that is the hardest part
#14
Le Mans Master
Your pressures are likely OK for autocross. I would start even lower for a road course if you push the car to slip angles.
A lot of folks say you should run low 40 PSI range for Hoosiers. That is true for the older generation tires, but for the new A6 and R6 it is considerably less than that.
In my opinion your car is under cambered for Hoosiers. Hoosiers are rubber challenged on the shoulders. For a camber challenged car a better tire than the R6 is the Kumho V710, especially for autocross. I think the Kumhos go "off" more after about 5 hard laps on a road course. The Hoosiers seem to be nearly as fast at the end as the beginning on a road course.
A lot of folks say you should run low 40 PSI range for Hoosiers. That is true for the older generation tires, but for the new A6 and R6 it is considerably less than that.
In my opinion your car is under cambered for Hoosiers. Hoosiers are rubber challenged on the shoulders. For a camber challenged car a better tire than the R6 is the Kumho V710, especially for autocross. I think the Kumhos go "off" more after about 5 hard laps on a road course. The Hoosiers seem to be nearly as fast at the end as the beginning on a road course.
#15
Race Director
Thread Starter
i will try to bump up the camber also i just have to find what allanlaw has reccomended for steet/track setting.
i think it might have been -2.0 and -1.6 or -1.8
#16
Drifting
I run -2 or so in front, and no longer cord my front tires on the outside. Now, my streets cord after a couple of years, but the hoosiers are fine!
Back is another matter. Before harder bushings, I needed at least -1.5 in the back to allow for reasonable cording given the slip angles I'm pushing and how I'm driving. I note that as I get better, I'm easier on tires. I understand when to push them and when to back off and since I'm time trialing, I only need one flying lap per session. Everything else in the session is warmup for that.
At DEs I push all over the place, because I'm testing. I go through more tires that way, but it's fine. Next analysis is to use a pyrometer and get some temps to see how the new bushings affect things.
Back is another matter. Before harder bushings, I needed at least -1.5 in the back to allow for reasonable cording given the slip angles I'm pushing and how I'm driving. I note that as I get better, I'm easier on tires. I understand when to push them and when to back off and since I'm time trialing, I only need one flying lap per session. Everything else in the session is warmup for that.
At DEs I push all over the place, because I'm testing. I go through more tires that way, but it's fine. Next analysis is to use a pyrometer and get some temps to see how the new bushings affect things.
#17
Race Director
Thread Starter
just looked at my alignment sheet from when i got it aligned only have a -1.0 up front time to bump that up quite a bit
i was sure i had told them to bump it up more then that :hmm:
i was sure i had told them to bump it up more then that :hmm:
#19
Race Director
Thread Starter
well i just ordered some r888 from jon berget that are like new so i should be back in action this weekend, not willing to pay $300 per tire for the fronts, got these for $200 shipped for the pair.
going to get a diff alignment do the toyo like just as agressive alignments?
going to get a diff alignment do the toyo like just as agressive alignments?
#20
Racer
Little higher would help like 32-33 front. 30-32 rear ending at 40-42 hot on all. 1.6 is not really enough camber for them if you are running hard. There is very little rubber on a R tire. It tells you on the Hoosier site. I cut one with a diamond blade in a cut off saw If I have one left I cut it and post the picture.