Corded the outside of my A6's. Time for an aggressive alignment I guess. (autox)
08-24-2008, 08:32 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Corded the outside of my A6's. Time for an aggressive alignment I guess. (autox)
Car setup: Stock suspension. 315/35/17's all the way around.
Current alignment specs:
Front:
Camber: -1.5
Caster: max
Toe: Zero
Rear:
Camber: -1.0
Toe: 1/8in In
Thinking about going to:
Front:
Camber: -2.2
Caster: max
toe: zero
Rear:
Camber: -1.5
Toe: 1/8in In
Does this sound about right to everyone? I would like to be able to use the same alignment for autox/HPDE use if at all possible.
Current alignment specs:
Front:
Camber: -1.5
Caster: max
Toe: Zero
Rear:
Camber: -1.0
Toe: 1/8in In
Thinking about going to:
Front:
Camber: -2.2
Caster: max
toe: zero
Rear:
Camber: -1.5
Toe: 1/8in In
Does this sound about right to everyone? I would like to be able to use the same alignment for autox/HPDE use if at all possible.
Last edited by Z06Fix; 08-24-2008 at 08:37 PM.
08-24-2008, 08:53 PM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
I have always been told that hoosiers need alot of neg camber to keep from cording the outside edge. I guess I found that to be true
08-24-2008, 09:51 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Hoosier recommends at least -2.5
I can't speak to what works in auto-x, but I run -3.0 for road race duty. Unless you have poly the stock bushing squirm SO much that your not getting as much as you think with -2.0
I would say -2.0 with poly bushing and -2,5 to -3.0 with stock bushings.
I have pics of my car with -3.0 and the tires are just about flat on hard corners.
I can't speak to what works in auto-x, but I run -3.0 for road race duty. Unless you have poly the stock bushing squirm SO much that your not getting as much as you think with -2.0
I would say -2.0 with poly bushing and -2,5 to -3.0 with stock bushings.
I have pics of my car with -3.0 and the tires are just about flat on hard corners.
08-24-2008, 09:57 PM
#5
Race Director
You might do better with more pressure. Here's info from the Hoosier website below.
Bob
Bob
A6 Autocross
For autocrossing, the A6 does not need the same break in procedure as the R6. The A6 needs a minimal scuff-in session before the first autocross run. This “session” can comprise of simply driving around the event site at minimal speeds on the A6 set of tires. By scrubbing off the newness of the tread (no or minimal shininess remaining) prior to your first competitive run, the A6 tires will be more consistent in handling, grip and responsiveness on the first run. If this is not completed, running on un-scuffed A6 tires on your first run may result in the tires not gripping properly, or feeling like they “skate” over the course surface. You are welcome to run 3 – 5 psi higher when scuffing in a new set of A6’s, but be sure to reset them to the correct operating pressures before your first autocross run. As you compile autocross runs on your new A6’s, they should become more consistent in run times.
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.
.
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Chassis Setup Recommendations
For optimum performance the Hoosier P-Metric radial tires require about 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in maximum performance to maximize wear. Generally, 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.
The Hoosier tires typically offer better performance with spring/shock rates higher than previous brands you may have run.
.
.
.
Tire Pressure Recommendations For Competition
Traditionally, Hoosier tires have often required higher pressures than other brands. This has changed with the A6/R6.
Roadrace/track applications
Vehicle size
Recommended Hot Pressure
Cold Pressure
1800-2200 lbs.
34-37+
26-31
2200-2600 lbs.
35-38+
27-32
2600-3000 lbs.
37-41+
27-32
over 3000 lbs.
38-43+
27-33
+Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.
One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure too far may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear rate.
Autocross applications
For autocross applications, your starting pressure for the first run should be within 1-2 psi of the recommended hot pressures shown above. After the first run and each subsequent run, keep resetting the pressures back to your target hot pressures before taking the next run. This way your tires are at the proper pressure during the bulk of every run you take.
For autocrossing, the A6 does not need the same break in procedure as the R6. The A6 needs a minimal scuff-in session before the first autocross run. This “session” can comprise of simply driving around the event site at minimal speeds on the A6 set of tires. By scrubbing off the newness of the tread (no or minimal shininess remaining) prior to your first competitive run, the A6 tires will be more consistent in handling, grip and responsiveness on the first run. If this is not completed, running on un-scuffed A6 tires on your first run may result in the tires not gripping properly, or feeling like they “skate” over the course surface. You are welcome to run 3 – 5 psi higher when scuffing in a new set of A6’s, but be sure to reset them to the correct operating pressures before your first autocross run. As you compile autocross runs on your new A6’s, they should become more consistent in run times.
.
.
.
.
Chassis Setup Recommendations
For optimum performance the Hoosier P-Metric radial tires require about 3 degrees of camber. There will be a trade off in maximum performance to maximize wear. Generally, 1/2 degrees less than optimum will result in the best compromise for wear and speed. Less than 2.5 degrees can result in excessive wear on the shoulder junction.
The Hoosier tires typically offer better performance with spring/shock rates higher than previous brands you may have run.
.
.
.
Tire Pressure Recommendations For Competition
Traditionally, Hoosier tires have often required higher pressures than other brands. This has changed with the A6/R6.
Roadrace/track applications
Vehicle size
Recommended Hot Pressure
Cold Pressure
1800-2200 lbs.
34-37+
26-31
2200-2600 lbs.
35-38+
27-32
2600-3000 lbs.
37-41+
27-32
over 3000 lbs.
38-43+
27-33
+Higher pressures will improve the performance capability but will require a more sensitive feel to take advantage of the increase.
One characteristic of the tires is the tendency to "skate" initially (when inflation pressures are correct). It is important to resist lowering the pressure to attempt to eliminate this feeling. Dropping the pressure too far may improve the "feel" of the tire however it will also lower the performance and increase the wear rate.
Autocross applications
For autocross applications, your starting pressure for the first run should be within 1-2 psi of the recommended hot pressures shown above. After the first run and each subsequent run, keep resetting the pressures back to your target hot pressures before taking the next run. This way your tires are at the proper pressure during the bulk of every run you take.
08-24-2008, 09:59 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Hoosier recommends at least -2.5
I can't speak to what works in auto-x, but I run -3.0 for road race duty. Unless you have poly the stock bushing squirm SO much that your not getting as much as you think with -2.0
I would say -2.0 with poly bushing and -2,5 to -3.0 with stock bushings.
I have pics of my car with -3.0 and the tires are just about flat on hard corners.
I can't speak to what works in auto-x, but I run -3.0 for road race duty. Unless you have poly the stock bushing squirm SO much that your not getting as much as you think with -2.0
I would say -2.0 with poly bushing and -2,5 to -3.0 with stock bushings.
I have pics of my car with -3.0 and the tires are just about flat on hard corners.
08-24-2008, 10:29 PM
#7
Instructor
Member Since: Oct 2006
Location: Greensboro NC
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You don't need more than -2.25 in the front for autocross. I've gotten 180 and 140 runs out of my last two sets of A6's. 180 runs without cording... Flip them after a while and they'll be fine.
08-25-2008, 12:25 AM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
Wow thats amazing. Most of the guys around here are only getting 60-70 runs out of their hoosiers. What are your alignment specs and what pressures are you running?
08-25-2008, 12:35 AM
#10
Instructor
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02 C5Z. Pfadt Sport shocks & Pfadt Street front sway
Alignment specs are:
Front: -2.25 deg camber, max caster, ~1/8th toe out
Rear: -1.3 deg camber, don't remember caster, ~3/16 toe in
Tires were flipped twice on the 180 run set and once on the 140 run set. They weren't awesome or "fast" toward the end of their life, but the second set was fast enough at 80 runs (at the beginning of the event) to win the toledo ProSolo so I've been quite happy with the wear.
Alignment specs are:
Front: -2.25 deg camber, max caster, ~1/8th toe out
Rear: -1.3 deg camber, don't remember caster, ~3/16 toe in
Tires were flipped twice on the 180 run set and once on the 140 run set. They weren't awesome or "fast" toward the end of their life, but the second set was fast enough at 80 runs (at the beginning of the event) to win the toledo ProSolo so I've been quite happy with the wear.
08-25-2008, 01:33 AM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
02 C5Z. Pfadt Sport shocks & Pfadt Street front sway
Alignment specs are:
Front: -2.25 deg camber, max caster, ~1/8th toe out
Rear: -1.3 deg camber, don't remember caster, ~3/16 toe in
Tires were flipped twice on the 180 run set and once on the 140 run set. They weren't awesome or "fast" toward the end of their life, but the second set was fast enough at 80 runs (at the beginning of the event) to win the toledo ProSolo so I've been quite happy with the wear.
Alignment specs are:
Front: -2.25 deg camber, max caster, ~1/8th toe out
Rear: -1.3 deg camber, don't remember caster, ~3/16 toe in
Tires were flipped twice on the 180 run set and once on the 140 run set. They weren't awesome or "fast" toward the end of their life, but the second set was fast enough at 80 runs (at the beginning of the event) to win the toledo ProSolo so I've been quite happy with the wear.
Good luck at Nationals
08-25-2008, 06:47 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
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Cruise-In II Veteran
Sounds like you need some bushings. The static camber numbers quoted above are at least 1/2 that value under load. On a C5 or C6 it works out to about 7mm per degree of camber on the front and the OE rubber bushings deflect at least that much under load. Here is a video of the rear of Chris Ingle's C5. His diff mounts were broken so don't focus on that, but check out the lower rear bushing deflection:
08-25-2008, 12:33 PM
#13
Drifting
Thread Starter
Sounds like you need some bushings. The static camber numbers quoted above are at least 1/2 that value under load. On a C5 or C6 it works out to about 7mm per degree of camber on the front and the OE rubber bushings deflect at least that much under load. Here is a video of the rear of Chris Ingle's C5. His diff mounts were broken so don't focus on that, but check out the lower rear bushing deflection:
08-25-2008, 11:37 PM
#14
Drifting
Thread Starter
Got the alignment done today. I can't wait till the event on the 7th to try it out.
Specs:
Front
Camber: -2.5
Caster: Max
Toe: 4mm out, total
Rear
Camber: -1.5
Toe: 2mm in, total
Specs:
Front
Camber: -2.5
Caster: Max
Toe: 4mm out, total
Rear
Camber: -1.5
Toe: 2mm in, total
08-26-2008, 12:45 AM
#16
Drifting
Thread Starter
08-26-2008, 08:24 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
10-17-2010, 09:50 PM
#19
Instructor
Member Since: Aug 2007
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Has anyone tried adding washers (spacers) to lower A arms (between the arms and mounting points ) to help push out the A arms to get more negative camber? My A6's are getting very little wear on the insides especially the rears as all I can get is about -1.1 for camber on the rears.
