USAsOnlyWay

I don't know if there is a better forum for this but I just wanted to get some advice for a complete beginner to get advice on karting.

What to watch for?

What is a good kart for an adult that I also won't grow out of too quickly?

Any advice is appreciated.

There is a course right by where I live and I think I'll improve my skills more, doing some karting than auto-x'ing once a month for 3 runs.

Thanks and apologies if this is the wrong forum.

C66 Racing

I actually started racing in karts near Davis way back when. Two-cycle karts on some track near Roseville.

Karting is great and I've seriously considered selling the Vette and getting into karting for a few years with my daughters. As they don't seem to be too interested, I haven't moved out of the investigation phase yet.

I did look into it last year and learned a lot... which was mostly that trying to decide how to get into karting is harder than deciding how to get into car racing. Way too many kart engine options and classes these days. My suggestion - go to several local events and watch, look, listen and talk to as many different people as possible. Overall, I'd pick a class that is popular and that is relatively maintenance free.

Good luck with your search.

WBHighwind

I spent about 6 years in Karting and most of that was in a TAG class called Rotax. It is a very popular class nationwide that offers basically the same rule set no matter where you go. The wonderful thing about class is that the motor package is spec meaning all you can change on it is the gearing and main jetting in the carb. The motors have the capability to last 50 hours between full rebuilds, and about 15 hours on a piston.

http://www.rmaxchallenge.com/

Most places, you can run this motor in both TAG and Rotax meaning it is a very versatile package. Chassis is open and unless you are an extremely large guy (meaning over 6'4"), any adult chassis will be big enough.

Some chassis are designed to go with a certain motor package, i.e. shifter chassis are stiffer then 100cc chassis and most chassis manufacturers offer a TAG and 4stroke chassis now. However, because of the relatively standard design, most motors can be mounted on most chassis with little trouble.

I worked in a karting shop for 2 years so I could talk about this aspect of the sport all day. Lemme know if you need any other help.

Bill Hetzel

Ha, Davis, the bumps on that track changed aroung as the garbage shifted below the track. It was built on a land fill.

Seriously, Do a searck on WKA, world karting asso., IKF, international karting federation. www.norcalkarting.com (I think).

I ran karts for 12 years, built the racetrack in Reno and won 5 regional roadrace championships. I ran my fastest laptimes in a racecar when I was actively racing karts.
I still have a 125 shifter just to get seat time. But wouldn't recommend a shifter - too expensive.
As stated above TAG is a good way to go.

MattB

I'm strongly considering geting a cart, not really to race but just to get seat time. There are more cart tracks than road race tracks here in CO.

WBHighwind

It is the exact opposite here in Texas. There are about 3 respectable karting tracks and a few more smaller ones but for the most part, we keep getting more road race tracks built, mostly as "country clubs."

Bimota Guy

I run Solo events in a 125 shifter (and occasionally play with it at a kart track) and road race a T1 Vette. IMO not a lot transfers between the two. The chassis of a kart works quite differently than a car. But both are a lot of fun.

USAsOnlyWay

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm looking for seat time mostly. I'm always competitive but as for racing, that will be dependent on how much time I have to devote to this.

Subdriver, yeah I actually live in Davis so the BlueMax club is right here. I've heard about Roseville and a track in Vacaville too. I'm asking here because there is SO many options. Very cool, but difficult to make a decision about it. Low-maintenance is a big one for me, since I'm mostly looking for track time, I don't need to be doing frequent rebuilds to squeeze maximum performance. I just want consistency and reliability, for the general intervals. Hope you're enjoying the weather up there, I'm a UW alum and I'm really missing the rain.

WBHighWind, I've seen a lot of stuff about TAG/Rotax. Seems like it is a pretty popular local class too. I've heard the 4 cycles have longer intervals between rebuilds (more hours) generally than 2 cycles, true? I know Emmick karts are right by in Sacramento. I'm not looking to buy new though, just used for the primary intent of race time. But good to know about the frames. What about a life span on the frames? Hours/years when I should be worried about the beating its been taking? I'm hoping wherever this ends up, I'll be buying a used sorted kart I can really just work on the nut behind the wheel with. What about World Formula?

Bill, a landfill eh? Haha, I don't think the people on the golf course development right across the road know that. Yeah, I'll admit it. I'm looking for seat time and while I love driving the Vette. I know I could be a lot smoother and a shifter will just let me avoid becoming smoother longer, at least comparatively and you said it, the karts are cheaper too. I'll look into the TAG class too. Any opinions on the World Formula? If you're ever up near Davis/Sac you'll have to shoot me a PM. I'll like to see you run/can crew if you need it.

WBHighwind

I figured World Formula would come up. Its basically Briggs answer to asphalt kart racing and providing a cost effective racing class. 4 cycles in Texas aren't too popular unless you are dirt track racing so its all dependent on your local club scene and whats popular.

As far as I know, TAG/Rotax has been the ticket for the last 5 years or more in most clubs around the country. Advantage Briggs stuff has is that its simple, cheap, and easy to maintain. Rotax is a little more reliable then most of the other TAG motors, but when you do have to buy a piston or part, its expensive. 4 cycle stuff also isn't as quick as 2 cycle stuff for the most part.

As for chassis, if you are just club racing, then a chassis bought new would last you a good 3 to 4 seasons if not more depending on how hard you are on your chassis. It might take a half a season just to settle in at which point you would need to reassemble it. Of course, all the factory guys are replacing chassis every year if not sooner. Most chassis can handle the off track excursion but if you flip, then you would need to have it checked out...

Emmick hasn't really been the hot chassis in a while. To be honest, if you want a hot chassis, then you want an Italian made one i.e. Birel, Intrepid, CRG. Intrepid are usually a stiffer chassis and can last a little longer but the birel works right away. CRGs are a good middle ground, but does cost the most.

Bill Hetzel

Wow, I never had a crew even when I was roadracing. But, I don't race the shifter anymore, just use it for seattime. I spend more time at the big track, Reno-Fernley. BTW there's a 2 day SCCA Time Trials there on the 27th,28th with a HPDE for street cars, come on up.

A $275 family membership at the Reno track gets you a key to the gate, yep you can drive anytime you want to.

I know the Emmick's, raced with them. HighWind's correct, no hot chassis in quite a while.

World Formula? anything with a Briggs should be used to mow your lawn.

Italian frames, yep replace every year. I'v got a Tony 125 shifter in the garage with more welds than a bridge. I'd rather have a Trackmagic or even an Emmick.

You can get into a kart cheap. TAG is the best class right now. You may find an older Yamaha at a very good price. You can run a Yamaha for a full year w/o rebuild if you take care of it.

Do you want to race competively? That's probably your first decision. Then pick the class.

Call Terry Ives in Roseville, look up Terry Ives Enterprizes. He has as much experience in karting as anyone on the west coast.

There's a good deal up here right now, a Trackmagic 125 shifter for less than $1800. The guy's going car racing and the price keeps droping.

Blocktrdr

Just got back from the Rotax nationals. A tag kart is definitely a good idea in cost to performance. I am part of the Tony Kart team, but you really should go with a chassis that has alot of support in your area. You should go to your local track and find out what classes have the biggest fields and then see what brands the local shops have. You need to be sure that they stock parts and have them at the track as well. Nothing more frustrating than bending a tie rod (a cheap part that can be replced in minutes) and not being able to find one.

Chassis age will matter at the National level where first and tenth are separated by tenths of a second. It will be a non event at the club level unless you have some top guys at the race. If you have a chance to get a nice used one and can find parts locally, a Swiss Hutless is a great chassis with a really simple setup. CRG's are nice and have alot of support around the country but they have a pretty tight setup window. Birels are pretty wide spread and setup OK but in some cases they just don't work well. Tony Karts are widely available in the south and have a more forgiving setup window. In the rest of the country it will depend on the area whether they are supported well. If available I would go with the Tony Kart. It will win at the National level and isn't as bad as the others if you don't have the setup perfect, but of course I'm biased. Like I said though. If you want a chassis that you can just drive and not setup at all the Swiss Hutless is the one I would look for. It also rolls around corners really well so it helps teach momentum.

You can get lot's of info on ekartingnews.com

USAsOnlyWay

Flip...lets hope that doesn't happen.

I'll be looking used and I don't intend on a putting on a fierce amount of wear and tear. I foresee myself in a a good month getting out 2, maybe 3 times. Some months none-whatsoever. I'll put it like this, I make bad money and I've worked the past 5 weekends. (PhD student, bad money long hours.)

At the local scene, it looks like the most popular classes in order are (based on the season points # of racers/class):

Formula 80 Masters (I'd qual on weight ), Super Sportsman (more in regular than in Heavy), F200 is really popular, as is the National Cup classes (regular/masters).

So I guess looking at that, I want to balance the cost to get in a run knowing I probably won't race for a bit and then if/when I do decide to race. I can.

I'm hoping to get out there the weekend after next and poke around a bit and ask some questions. Hopefully somebody can give me some guidance and answer my questions who isn't also selling a kart

USAsOnlyWay

My apologies, I thought you were still road racing the formula. Are you HPDEing now? Either way, it's always fun to come out and watch, no matter the vehicle.

Davis is about the same price and deal as Reno, having that about 10 minutes away is just too enticing and also really makes it feasible that I can get out there and run.

I'll be avoiding the Italian chassis then. I think Emmick has a good deal of support here due to the proximity, but I haven't talked to that many people here so it may just be I hit a bunch of Emmick guys and as I alluded to in my post above, they were selling Emmick frame karts. (Imagine that, they seemed to make it sound like they were the best. )

Ok, so how do you really feel about this?

I'm not so sure on racing as I don't think I have the time to truly dive into that, at least not any circuits where I need to do a lot of traveling. I've heard I should save shifters for later on.
I just don't want to get into a kart/motor that I'll immediately outgrow.

C66 Racing

I'll try to send some your way then. After spending the summer at sea, the last few weeks of sunshine we've had up here has been wonderful.

After reviewing all the posts, I think you're on the right track, no pun intended. I actually raced an Emmick chassis way back when. When I almost got into karting up here last year, I probably would've gone with Rotax and a CRG due to local popularity and support at the track (good advice mentioned above). There is a big kart shop over in Lynnwood that sells and supports CRG and Rotax.

Whichever way you decide to go, have fun with it.

0Louis @ LG Motorsports

Rotax for what you seem to want to do. I have Intrepid shifters for pops and I.... and we are thinking about getting a TAG. WBHigh is right, there are only a few tracks near us, most are old KT100 style tracks.

Best thing to do is find out what is popular near you at the tracks people run at and join that group. There is nothing like showing up, and being the only one or only one of a few in a class. Having 10+ karts in a race makes it worth it.

As everyone else has stated, Birel, Intrepid, CRG are pretty popular and getting parts is easy. I had 2 tonys, and getting parts was more challenging.

Here is my stock moto intrepid explorer





Louis

Bill Hetzel

I liked my Tonys well enough yep, easier to set up. I don't like the brakes compared to Bremos.
Can you point me to a source for the pumps (m/c's) ? Ths chassis is old, 2000 and had the squared off pumps, the newer ones are tapered towards the brake hose connection and supposedly a little better.

ekartingnews - good people.

Bill Hetzel

No, I've never done an HPDE but I've instructed at about 125 of them. I was an instructor at the driving school at the Reno track for 5 years.
I bought a Formula Ford, ran it and the karts for a while. Built and setup open wheel cars for a couple of years.
I've taken a year and a half off for now to fix up my house and sell it. I want a race shop with a house attached.
Right now I'm just doing SCCA tech and doing some private driver coaching.

Yea, save the shifters. When I was running guys were using up a set of tires per race and that was just for a culb race.

Bill Hetzel

Chris, you have a PM

WBHighwind

I know that pit runner anywhere! Spent most of my time at that track up at Denton! Im sure Ive seen you out at North Texas Kartway before. I worked at Kam Karting Supply for 2 years.

It would be an awesome track if they repaved it and managed it a little better. They also need to do some advertising in the DFW area because there is no reason why entries for a club race are under 65 with that big of a metroplex right near by.

Yall are lucky your in Cali where club racing gets easily over 100 entries per race weekend. Down here in Texas, it has to be a Nationals level race to get that many people around.

The reason I went Rotax was because at the time, it was the hot ticket at NTK. It wasn't uncommon to have 20 karts on track for a club race. That was when the Rotax Grand Nationals just started, and our club sent the winning driver like 4 years in a row.

Ryan59

I had a 1980 Margay Expert with a KT-100S, which was a new engine back in that era. Horstman had come out with the new disc clutch system which made set-ups much quicker. There were two styles of Karts, Enduro's and Sprints. The above pictured Kart is a "Sprint" as the driver set's upright VS Enduro drivers lay down.

A lot of the old 2-stroke engines have gone to the way-side, as they should have. You didn't want to follow a McCulla (spelling) too close because of flying parts when they stuck a piston and threw parts on the track. We called the 125cc Rotax shifter Karts "Zip Karts" back then. We could stay with them on the long straights but in the tight sections, they just left us.

Local Kart racing has gone 4-stroke. Mostly dirt with a lot of banging around....bumper carts for short...

There's a lot of good advice here on the newer Karts. I've noticed Kart chassis builders today build special chassis for certain tracks. Weight jacking used to be limmited to certain classes. A lot of later-style chassis seem to have weight jacking systems on them. If I were getting back into Karting, I would buy the best chassis I could afford. Back in the day 100cc stock light/heavy classes were the largest. Depending on your weight (with Kart) determined light or heavy.

It would have been great if driving classes were offered. I highly recommend taking some driving classes. It's tough when you're out there racing with beginers driving $200 Karts eager to take out front runners rather then use driving skill to race with them. My last race I had been run into several times from behind at 75mph entering turns. I changed my line and took the high line rather then continuing to take hits from whomever couldn't brake. Somehow, at 70+mph entering turn three, the guy ends up on top of my legs. It's tough to hold a line with another Kart on top of you. So we went into turn four wall at speed in front of the grand-stands. The front nerf bars were bent over my feet so I couldn't let off the peddles. Smoke and dust cloud impaired vision so I had to feel around for the fuel shut-off, then pulled the air filter off and choked the engine by hand. I wasn't hurt at that point. The rescue crew grabbed my shoulder straps in "save" mode and attempted to pull me out of the Kart and didn't understand my flailing as STOP!!! MY FEET ARE STUCK. After dragging me several yards they noticed the Kart was still attached to me and something wasn't right. Chrome Molley is hard to bend by hand so it took a while to dislodge my feet.

My best advice is to stay at the rear of the pack for a season. Learn how to go fast, then learn how to go fast in a pack without getting intimidated and freezing up. The fast guys want to get away from the pack as quickly as possible to avoid getting bumped & knocked around. Back then we raced with open wheels. Today they have side bumpers to keep tires from touching. Speaking from experiance, you do not want to touch tires. My very first outing, a guy missed the "S" turn and slid back onto the track and ran over my left rear tire. It sent me straight up in the air what seemed like three feet. I won the race and was fine, but the other guy's Kart frame was bent. I've never flipped but have seen a few guys get thrown out, or loose brakes at the end of a two mile straight and hit tree's.