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$25 Billion Lifeline for GM, Ford, and Chrysler

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Old 09-28-2008, 07:14 PM
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BrianCunningham
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Default $25 Billion Lifeline for GM, Ford, and Chrysler

Speaking of bailouts....

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/flowchar...-chrysler.html

A $25 Billion Lifeline for GM, Ford, and Chrysler
September 24, 2008 05:45 PM ET

In Washington these days, an 11-figure expenditure barely attracts notice.

With Congress preoccupied with the massive, $700 billion bailout plan for the financial industry, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler have finally secured Part One of their own federal rescue plan. A bill set to be passed by Congress and signed by President Bush as early as this weekend—separate from the controversial Wall Street bailout plan—includes $25 billion in loans for the beleaguered Detroit automakers and several of their suppliers. "It seemed like a lot when we first started pushing this," says Democratic Sen. Debbie Stabenow of Michigan, one of the bill's sponsors. "Suddenly, it seems so small."

But please don't call it a "bailout"—Detroit is too proud for that. Exact details will come later, but the loans would probably amount to at least $5 billion for each of the Detroit 3, plus smaller amounts for suppliers. That would allow them to borrow money at interest rates as low as 4 percent—a steep discount compared with the double-digit rates they're paying now. Over several years, the automakers could save hundreds of millions in financing costs. Plus, they'll have five years before they have to start repaying the loans.

It might seem like a stealth rescue, but the plan has been in the works for at least 18 months. Approval for the loans was first included in last year's Energy Independence Act. Earlier this year, the automakers sought a first installment of loans totaling about $6 billion. But the nationwide credit crunch severely crimped their ability to borrow, and besides, next to bailouts like $200 billion for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, a mere $6 billion started to seem unduly modest. So Detroit raised the ante to $25 billion, the most allowed under current law.

Some details of the program:

It's much bigger than the Chrysler bailout of 1980. Back then, the government gave Chrysler a $1.5 billion loan guarantee to stave off a bankruptcy filing. That's equivalent to about $4 billion today—less than the amount each of the Detroit 3 is likely to get this time around.

There are few strings attached. The 1980 plan also included a long list of rules Chrysler had to abide by in order to get the money (including, get this, "an energy savings plan focusing on the national need to lessen U.S. dependence on petroleum"). The current legislation requires only that the money be used to retool old assembly lines and develop advanced, fuel-efficient technology. Since the automakers are already spending billions to do that, they could easily shift money around and use the low-interest funds to effectively support almost any project.

It props up a private company. In 1980, Chrysler was a public company, just as GM and Ford are today. But last year a private equity firm, Cerberus Capital Management, bought Chrysler, taking the firm private. And there's little or no precedent for the government aiding a private company that has no stockholders among the public. "I'd draw a line between public and private," says Kathryn Rudie Harrigan, a strategy professor at Columbia Business School. "I understand there are a lot of jobs at stake, but the taxpayer can only carry so much."

Detroit desperately needs the help. Many analysts expect all three domestic car companies to face a life-threatening crisis if the U.S. car market, down about 20 percent so far this year, stays in the doldrums. GM and Ford could start to run out of cash by the second half of 2009, a precursor to declaring bankruptcy. Chrysler's finances are now private, but its sales are down even more than at Ford and GM, and it may be starting to bleed its corporate parent, Cerberus.

The idea behind the loans is to buy time while the Detroit 3 revamp their lineups, develop new hybrids and other fuel-sippers, and convert old SUV plants into factories turning out hot cars able to compete with those from Toyota and Honda. "I think they're on the verge of really turning the page," says Stabenow. But Detroit has fallen mightily. Consumers reeling from $4 gas have fled the big trucks and SUVs that the manufacturers milked for two decades, and Detroit's smaller cars tend to rate poorly compared with competitors. The domestics' U.S. market share is now about 48 percent, a staggering fall of nearly 20 points since the start of the decade. Fitch Ratings expects GM and Ford to produce about 1.3 million fewer cars this year than in 2007. Even cheap loans will do little to help erase years of red ink. "Even if they had positive cash flow," says Mark Oline of Fitch, "it's going to take some time to make a dent in their debt load."

There's more aid coming. This year's $25 billion is just a down payment. The automakers now plan to ask the government for another $25 billion in loans next year. It's just spare change, after all
Old 09-28-2008, 07:33 PM
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John Shiels
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with the tight credit market and the Moody rating if they borrow the rate is as high as 18% which is crazy. You may be looking for an American car like you can look for an American TV. Then every job lost at an OEM has over three more that go also.

Keep buying all the foreign cars till their is nothing left here. This is all in conjunction with China, Korea, and Japan having CLOSED markets to foreign cars. We are so stupid in this country it is mind boggling.

Then every time they foreign car company comes here they pay no property taxes for 15 or 20 years as states all cut each other throat to get the plants so stupid. All their taxes and profit head back to their own country and we get squat.

Hey how come a GTR is about the same price as a C6Z here but how much is a Z06 in Japan? Fair competition? Makes me sick! Japan was also found guilty of dumping mini-vans here below cost which is illegal like they ahve done in many industries to dive others out.

Now they are not scheduled to get the money till later in 2010 so it may be to late.

Last edited by John Shiels; 09-28-2008 at 07:40 PM.
Old 09-28-2008, 08:09 PM
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watch the 6 parts of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1GecyyDHmNg

it is old about 94-5 but nothing has changed to Japan's delight.

Last edited by John Shiels; 09-28-2008 at 08:17 PM.
Old 09-29-2008, 10:19 AM
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I'm about ready to move out of the USA after all the bailouts. I said after the airlines got bailed out that it would happen in almost every industery. Well guess what, it's happening.

The airlines was BS. They have been charging the same amount of money since the early 80's that I know of. MY Brother is flying round trip from LA to Minnesota for under 250 dollars. I have no idea what the actual cost is, but I know they are lossing money at that. Why are they selling so many tickets at low prices?? It doesn't matter, the good old USA will bail them out again.

The US car builders made money hand over fist for years and years. They should be able to make a change with their own money. GM and Ford will out live the other.

Insurance companies, what a joke, they shouldn't get a penny.

The housing market. Loan companies are crying like little girls. Why did you borrow 500K when the house was only worth 275K??? Poor planning, poor market pulling, poor job getting people into loans they couldn't afford. This has been going on for 10 years, the past 4 years they have said stay away stay away from the Arms and stuff like that. Guess what, last week my friend bought a house that he can't afford, with a ARM (stupid loan company, stupid friend)

I don't want to pay for every other companies BS problems that they did to themselves. I would like to see how things shake out by themselves. Only the strong will preval, well unless you get a couple more billion to play with. I guess we will have to work a little harder, so the big guys can screw around and play with funny money.

Randy
Old 09-29-2008, 10:30 AM
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http://www.fueleconomy.gov/Feg/bymak...sler2008.shtml

Chrysler did a great job with it's 1980's bailout money. Look at it's great MPG cars they are building now

Randy
Old 09-29-2008, 11:18 AM
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The three domestics didn't bother making tons of little cars most people didn't want. Small cars have very little profit while trucks and SUV have big profits. That's why Toyota and others moved to to that market with models like Sequoia and Tundra. 16 or 18% is credit card rates and they can't afford it. All car companies are hurting now some just had more cash on hand than others.
Old 09-29-2008, 11:55 AM
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Sorry guys, I'm a little heated on this, Because I'm still paying last years taxes.

What's next, Starbucks. The powers to be should throw them a couple billion too. Nobody figured out that you can't have a coffee shop on every corner in the US. There just isn't that many people drinking coffee. Then add the other coffee shops and what do you get, that thing they called free enterprize.

Randy
Old 09-29-2008, 02:04 PM
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So what is a billion dollars anyways.

15-64 years: 67.1% (male 101,825,901/female 102,161,823)
203,987,724 or so people in heavy taxes

Because the money has to come from somewhere.

25,000,000,000 dollars to help out the cause. $122 dollars
700,000,000,000 dollars to help the big picture $3431.57 dollars per person.

Randy
Old 09-29-2008, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Randy@DRM
Sorry guys, I'm a little heated on this, Because I'm still paying last years taxes.

What's next, Starbucks. The powers to be should throw them a couple billion too. Nobody figured out that you can't have a coffee shop on every corner in the US. There just isn't that many people drinking coffee. Then add the other coffee shops and what do you get, that thing they called free enterprize.

Randy
I dont like bailouts and taxes as much as the next guy but If the federal government would just back off maybe the little (formerly big) 3 could make some money. The 25 billion was part of the bill agreed to by congress after they raised the CAFE standards to un-realistic levels. All of you who are going to "pull the lever" Nov 4 must think....do you really want more and larger government overseeing everything we do? Are you aware of all the government regulations and requirements and taxes that american companies have to deal with that foreign competition manufacturing oversees dont have to contend with??

PS outside of the US GM is making a profit!

Last edited by KB Aero Biscuit; 09-29-2008 at 02:11 PM. Reason: added info
Old 09-29-2008, 09:21 PM
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I'm about 50k behind, where does the line form? I think every American needs to write their congressperson and ask for a bailout. That $600 check earlier this year didn't cut it. It's the American dream (nightmare). Better yet, STOP PAYING INCOME TAX!
Old 09-29-2008, 10:20 PM
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Y'all don't have to worry (about the bailout cost) cause the bailout failed to pass the house.
Of course the market closed DOWN 778 points, so tomorrow, there may be something worse to worry about.
FDR said "There is nothing to fear but fear itself" but it's not the market mistakes that will take this country to ruin, but the FEAR experessed by the investors.
Good luck all.
Old 09-30-2008, 01:12 AM
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What REALLY REALLY REALLY makes me mad is that when George Bush was intereviewed at the Olympics, and Costas (I think) asked him what he thought about our countries problems, he snapped and said "We dont have any problems!!" , Costas was at a loss for words for a brief moment and then had to gather himself and change the subject.


THIS WAS A MONTH AGO, YOU TELLING ME HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS COMING ALREADY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


ARRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Old 09-30-2008, 07:23 AM
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track events will be 50 bucks with a free lunch thrown in soon. Even with the bailout things are still going to be real bad. Even if I do get my car into one piece it won't be on track for a while the way it looks. I can't justify 1000 dollar fun days any more when I don't know where the next buck is coming from. Lucky I use the trailer for my business a lot taking things to big for the pickup, My big 18' flat bed at 5.5 MPG gets to sit a lot more when I plan and use the trailer.
Old 09-30-2008, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
What REALLY REALLY REALLY makes me mad is that when George Bush was intereviewed at the Olympics, and Costas (I think) asked him what he thought about our countries problems, he snapped and said "We dont have any problems!!" , Costas was at a loss for words for a brief moment and then had to gather himself and change the subject.


THIS WAS A MONTH AGO, YOU TELLING ME HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS COMING ALREADY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


ARRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
He is wealthy and isolated from the price of things people need. He is so out of touch like many idiots we elect. Remember the gas price gaff he had? No clue it was heading for 4 bucks!

Wait an see what happens with no credit, people will learn the connection real fast in a short while. I read where Sonic the fast food place was told no new loans avaiable. When you have a loan or business they can can it in 10 days for no reason. So if I had to borrow money for payroll on a big job I would be on pins and needles. It will hurt many real soon even with the bailout if it comes.

Last edited by John Shiels; 09-30-2008 at 07:29 AM.
Old 09-30-2008, 08:36 AM
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Yeah they got that passed without much fan fair. It would of been big news now its just 5th page reading in a small article.

Im sorry I think all this Bailout crap is just bullsh*t. Lets see you run your business into the ground and the Feds help you out. You make cars that get crappy gas mileage and loose your shirt when energy cost go through the roof. Feds help. My family owned business that has been struggling because of things my parents have done in the past. The feds give you a big FU..............................
Old 09-30-2008, 11:25 AM
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9 Michigan reps voted against the $700B bill, but all of them voted for the Detroit bailout bill.

How many people are going to buy cars if they can't get credit? How are auto dealers going to get floorplan financing without credit?
Old 09-30-2008, 11:39 AM
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Well, the Detroit bailout maybe trickling down to me of all people.

Someone in the area is helping Detroit build hybrids....

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Old 09-30-2008, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianCunningham
Well, the Detroit bailout maybe trickling down to me of all people.

Someone in the area is helping Detroit build hybrids....
Who is going to be able to buy the hybrids if they don't have any money?
Old 09-30-2008, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by heavychevy
What REALLY REALLY REALLY makes me mad is that when George Bush was intereviewed at the Olympics, and Costas (I think) asked him what he thought about our countries problems, he snapped and said "We dont have any problems!!" , Costas was at a loss for words for a brief moment and then had to gather himself and change the subject.


THIS WAS A MONTH AGO, YOU TELLING ME HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS COMING ALREADY!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


ARRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Sorry for adding to the off thread comments................BUT, Bush and republicans have tried for years to fix the democrat oversight of the mortgage mess. Do some research, although Im not a huge Bush fan but Im tired of liberals always blaming Bush for everything.

http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArti...07577562156347
Can Congress Fix A Problem It Caused?
By THOMAS SOWELL | Posted Monday, September 29, 2008 4:30 PM PT
Old 09-30-2008, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by xsiveone
9 Michigan reps voted against the $700B bill, but all of them voted for the Detroit bailout bill.

How many people are going to buy cars if they can't get credit? How are auto dealers going to get floorplan financing without credit?
Detroit bailout bill? Cant you even read what was posted?

It might seem like a stealth rescue, but the plan has been in the works for at least 18 months. Approval for the loans was first included in last year's Energy Independence Act.

The 25Billion was part of the raising of CAFE standards to insane levels!!!

Mr. X strikes again!

Last edited by KB Aero Biscuit; 09-30-2008 at 11:48 AM. Reason: add info


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