MartyZ51

This will be the first DE/HPDE season with my '08 Z51 6 Speed. I will run about 5 weekend events this year and would like to learn any uniques about the C6 from you the experts. I have 8 years of HPDE experience running 4th Generation Camaros. I stepped up to a Corvette because I was beyond the intended design limitations of the Camaro.

Questions:
What are the common system failures encountered on road courses with the C6?

Is there anything unique about bleeding the brakes and can I use solo bleeders at the end of each day? Is it even needed?

It appears the rubber boots on the front tie rod ends melt. I was planning on taping with heat resistant tape. Do the backs melt as well?

Does the standard Oil cooler keep the engine temp below 300?

Does the power steering cooler keep the fluid from boiling out of the reservoir or is this even a problem?

Where are you getting front rotors as I think these are directional and have to be purchased for left and right sides?

Any other suggestions for a stock car used mainly at Heartland Park in topeka, Kansas?

I'll be running Carbotech XP10s on the front and XP8s on the rear with Motul fluid. I'll run Hoosier R6s on stock rims but need to determine the largest size that will fit. I'll be trailer to the events so car setup can be done well in advance.

Z06Fix

Congrats on the upgrade

Bleed squence for the C6 is RR, LF, LR, RF. I think most guys either just do the normal two person method or use the motive bleeder tool.

Alot of the guys with the Z51 cars buy the C5 caliper brackets so they can use the cheaper C5 rotors. These can be found for $40-50 ech.

If you are going to use the XP12's up front I would suggest stepping up to the XP10's in the rear. This will give you a better balance on the brakes.


I have not heard of many power steering issues on track. I know the F-body cars were terrible about it, but the vettes seem to be ok.

Pick up some brake ducts for the car and you will prolong the life of the: pads, rotors, wheel bearings, and tie-rods.

As for the questions about the oil cooler, I am unsure. Hopefully some of the C6 guys will chime in to answer that for ya.



Enjoy the new car. It's going to be a blast on the track

errance

The driver
All joke aside, a seat that actually holds you seems to rank as #1 upgrade for many folks here.

A lot of folks here (incl. myself) are in love with their Motive speed bleeder. It's a pump that pressurises your brake system and allows easy one-person bleeds.

How often you should bleed is a function of many factors. The more ****-retentive folks do a full flush after every day. I'm an "advanced beginner" and my ATE super blue was still bright blue on the calliper end after a couple track days...

MartyZ51

I agree with the seat and driver skill issue. Even with the sport seat option the leather slides all over the place. I did Corbeau seats with adjustable backs in my last car and it was not good. I'm reluctant to step up to a harness since I don't have a roll bar. The hoop behind your head in a Corvette is probably similar to a rollbar in that it won't crush in a roll over. This would make a harness bar and 5 point more acceptable.

MartyZ51

Thanks for the advice on the C5 brackets and converting over. I assume that rotor size is the same. I'm curious why the bleeding sequence is different than the typical...start at the longest line and work your way to the shortest line (LR, RR, RF then LF)? Does this have something to do with the computer? What about when I bleed just the fronts?

I've never owned a car with built in ducting to the wheel well which is exciting! I agree that it wouldn't take much to complete it to the front spindle.

errance

The rotor size is NOT the same, which is why you need different brackets to mount your callipers.

WNeal

I have about 30 HPDE's on my 06 Coup Z51

Oil temp does get up around 300 F in the summer time. I just bring it in.
Have a Z06 oil cooler that Danny P is going to put in along with brake cooking ducts along with SS pistons.

Have changed to C5 brake brackets and highly recommend it.

Protected front and rear boots with heat shielding, end of problem.

No PS issues whatsoever so far.
I put speed bleeders on it and will now bleed prior to every event. Also put in SRF brake and hydraulic fluid.

Probably getting an accusump very soon as well.

Looking to drive it hard again this year

errance

Got a photo or more info on that?

Do they make one for the C6? For some reason, I always hear C5 guys talking about accusump but never C6 owners.

MartyZ51

30 events is pretty substantial. What items have shown the wear? Has the clutch needed to be bled?

What do Stainless Steel brake pistons help with?

Do you think the oil cooler from the Z06 is a direct bolt on?

avizandum

From http://www.dougrippie.com/drm/c6_parts_conv.htm "Our stainless steel pistons help block the heat from the brake pads and rotors from entering the brake fluid."

05C6GAC

Take an extra set of brake pads, I've used up a couple, before the end of an event lately. Nothing worse than wanting to do another session and not having any brake pad left. The more experienced you get, the deeper into the corner you go, the more brake you use, the less they last.

Have fun and enjoy

Rob Willis

S.S. Pistons = less heat transfer into the caliper/fluid

Z06 cooler = yes, but you have to cut the shroud for the lines a bit differently if I recall correctly or buy the Z06 plastic shroud

NOSLO6

I'm going to be doing a two-day event at NJMP this April (one day on Thunderbolt, one on Lightning) for the first time in my 08 coupe and don't want to risk missing any action.

• What other spare parts do folks recommend bringing to the track? Rotors? Other common failure points?
  
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• Am I crazy for planning to run on Hawk HPS pads?

Aardwolf

They had serious fade for me and were not fun. If you don't mind dialing your braking down then they can be used.

errance

Yes.

I have tracked my C6 with the HP+. It is very comparable to the stock C6 Z51 pad, which is to say just ok for a beginner on a stock C6. Not recommended for more than 25 minute sessions or on a really hot day.

The HPS is an inferior pad to the HP+ I have used. Based on that, I would assume it is not appropriate for track use.

l8_apexer

Exactly the car I bought last January. I have been doing HPDEs and club racing with Porsches for the past 23 years. (instructor)

First things I did to my Z51:

1. stainless steel brake lines. (LG motorsports)
2. Z06 brake cooling ducts ($75 from Gene Culley)
3. Cobalt racing brake pads (LG motorsports)
4. Set of replacement rotors
5. Super Blue racing brake fluid

Have had NO issues with brakes, or tie rod ends.
I change the rotors and pads for trak driving-- meaning that I have a matched set of rotors for my track pads (Cobalts) and when I get home I swap out the rotors and pads again for the OEM ones for street use. I did not go to the C5 setup. Seems insane to go to smaller rotors on a car that as weak brakes to begin with... I value being able to stop more than having extra HP on a road course.

Oil temps are uncomfortably high. I am not comfortable with running the spec'd 5w-30 Mobil 1. Seems to be destroyed after a weekend. Will be going back to a *racing* synthetic oil, probably Castrol or Valvoline in a 15-50. Change oil after each event. Not sure what impact going to the heavier, racing oil will be on oil temps, but will help peace of mind. HAve been thinking about an oil cooler, haven't seen a set up that makes sense yet to me for HPDE use.

I flushed the brake fluid and replaced with Super Blue before going to the track.

I have a power bleeder, flush out each caliper, every event.

You will want to put a "track" alilgnment on the car-- with 1.5 -2.0 degrees of negative camber to keep from destroying the tires.

You'll need another set of wheels. Forget the OEM tires-- they are bricks. Not many choices to fit OEM wheels. I found a set of wheels with BF Goodrich KDWs, have been suprisingly good on track with those. Will be moving to Toyo R888 or maybe Hoosiers this year.

The seats SUCK. Complete GARBAGE (for performance driving).

Have a set of Sparcos, 6 point harnesses, and harness bar (getting installed this month).

The safety equipment should be your priority in mods and dollars spent. 436HP is pretty darned fast. Get a HANS device while you're at it.

And focus on learning to drive the car and get comfortable with it.

I'm concerned about the ability of the front hubs to be able to take a lot of track use-- will be watching that losely. Pfadt seems to have a strong replacement alternative for the hubs.

Have fun!!!

MartyZ51

Great info from someone who had been there before. I just had Hoosiers mounted to a second set of factory rims. The $1,500 worth of tires are motivating me to get -2 degrees of camber up front and maybe -1.2 in the rear with no toe. Get the Hoosiers quick because TireRack only had 5 of the rears left and I took 2! I think I can mark the suspension pieces at stock settings and return it to stock in the fall.

I'm used to $25 rotors with a 12 month warranty for my prior track car. Where do you get the rotors from?

I had vents on my last car and I know they save consumables. I'll have 295's on the front so I'm wondering if the brake vents will work without getting in the way? Do you have to take them off to drive it easily on the street?

Porsches are amazing cars. How do you feel the Z51 compares for track fun?

jadkins

I ran 9 events last year in a 2008 C6z51 - I also run the C5/standard C6 rotors and brackets. Depending on the pads you use and how aggressive they are you will crack rotors - so running cheaper rotors is nice when you know they will be scrap after a few events.

My 2008 Setup...

Wheels/Tires - Clone AMold/GS Wheels (cheap but not too heavy) - 17x11 square (f/r) 315 Kuhmo 710s
Brake Setup - C5/Standard C6 caliper brackets with cheap rotors all corners
Brake Pads - Wilwood H pads (WAY too aggressive without brake ducts multiple cracked front rotors but last forever), PFC 01 Performance Friction pads (felt great and didn't crack rotors but only last 1 or 2 events max)
The z51 oil cooler is ok if you don't push it too hard but Temps in the 280s were not uncommon for me. I would simply back off for a lap or so and the temps would fall back into the 260s or 250s.

The 17x11 315s only rub at FULL lock.

For 2009 I plan to add...
Brake ducts and probably steering stops to avoid crushing them at full lock
Z06 Oil Cooler, picked it up from Katech (used) to hopefully keep the temps out of the 280s

For rotors - NAPA has good sales from time to time, AutoParts Warehouse is another as is Tire Rack. Tried "high dollar" $55 Brembo rotors from TireRack but they cracked just like the $29 versions.

wtknght1

You of course can do what you want, but after what I went thru last year with my LS3, I would not put an LS3 on track without a dry sump system - period! Anything over 1.1 or 1.2 gs and the bearings starve - kaboom.

But, once you do, you'll also need the new gm oil cooler setup for the T1 cars. Before we developed this, we saw oil temps hit 330+. With the coolers, I still see 295 when it gets 85 degs outside. You'll need a catch-can as well because the engine is going to "puke" about half a quart into the intake otherwise...and subsequently will run down and ruin that $100 air filter.

The car you saw detonate at the runoffs was an LS3 with an accusump and the bat-wing oil pan we developed. That was his 2d engine of the weekend by the way. Anytime you turn left, the oil goes away from the pick-up and the oil pressure drops below the safe levels. As long as you turn right, it seems to be fine...except of course for the oil ingestion issue. I went thru 3 engines myself and I doubt it would have lasted more than another lap or so at Heartland Park...from looking at the data and oil pressure vs. rpm numbers.

I have heard of folks running LS3s on track without blowing them up, but every LS3 I've seen, with a decent suspension, racing tires, and a good driver has gone up in smoke. As long as you have the stock suspension and stock tires, it seems to be OK.

As much as I hate to say it, if you own an LS3, you own a grenade and pin is pulled. It's just a matter of time! Sad.

Once you get the oiling issues straight, I love the Carbotech Brakes (XP12s front/XP10s rear), Hoosier tires and get the car professionally set up and tuned. Phoenix does exceptional work. The calipers and rotors are much better than the C5 versions. After that, get lots of seat time...repeat as often as necessary.

tomiboy

[QUOTE=wtknght1;1569196128]You of course can do what you want, but after what I went thru last year with my LS3, I would not put an LS3 on track without a dry sump system - period! Anything over 1.1 or 1.2 gs and the bearings starve - kaboom.

But, once you do, you'll also need the new gm oil cooler setup for the T1 cars. Before we developed this, we saw oil temps hit 330+. With the coolers, I still see 295 when it gets 85 degs outside. You'll need a catch-can as well because the engine is going to "puke" about half a quart into the intake otherwise...and subsequently will run down and ruin that $100 air filter.

The car you saw detonate at the runoffs was an LS3 with an accusump and the bat-wing oil pan we developed. That was his 2d engine of the weekend by the way. Anytime you turn left, the oil goes away from the pick-up and the oil pressure drops below the safe levels. As long as you turn right, it seems to be fine...except of course for the oil ingestion issue. I went thru 3 engines myself and I doubt it would have lasted more than another lap or so at Heartland Park...from looking at the data and oil pressure vs. rpm numbers.

I have heard of folks running LS3s on track without blowing them up, but every LS3 I've seen, with a decent suspension, racing tires, and a good driver has gone up in smoke. As long as you have the stock suspension and stock tires, it seems to be OK.

As much as I hate to say it, if you own an LS3, you own a grenade and pin is pulled. It's just a matter of time! Sad.
QUOTE]

What changed in the LS2 vs. LS3 that causes this problem?