68sixspeed

This is something new with BMW Ct-valley at Lime Rock in CT for HPDE's, never seen this before relating to targa's- but it basically means no vettes except fixed roof cars as the only way I'd pass the broom test is with a roll bar 4-6" higher than the top of my car!

2.8.7 CONVERTIBLES and Cars with Removable Roof Sections
Convertibles are defined as cars with retractable tops, whether soft-top or folding hard-top.
Removable roof sections include targa tops and T-tops. These are characterized by part of a fixed body structure above the passenger compartment.

2.8.7.1 Convertibles are not allowed to participate in sessions driven at speed unless the car is equipped with the following minimum requirements:

a. A roll bar or roll cage meeting the requirements of Appendix B

b. 5- or 6-point harnesses for both driver and instructor

2.8.7.2 At the discretion of the Chapter, cars with factory-installed fixed rollover protection or removable roof sections may be allowed, but only if this protection meets the helmet reference plane described in Appendix B for both the driver and passenger.

Here's the reference plane information (AKA "broomstick test"):


B.1.2 The top of the roll bar shall be a minimum of two (2) inches above the top of the driver's (and passenger's) helmet with the driver (and passenger) seated normally and restrained by seat belt/shoulder harness. A plane (Helmet Reference Plane) drawn from the top (not including padding) of the roll bar to structural parts of the chassis in front of the base of the windshield (e.g., top of front suspension strut towers) shall pass over the driver's (and passenger's) helmet. (See Figure 1.)

------------------------

Anyone else seeing this, or is this just new with this club??

Something tells me they are either having insurance issues or just don't like $20k corvettes passing $60-80k bmw's!

AU N EGL

this is not a problem for Corvette Coupes. Some car makes have a very poor B piller so the removable top center section is not very good. And these drivers REMOVE that center section.

Honda S2000 comes to mind, Lotus Elise is an other car clubs are looking at.

The challenge is when owners / driver remove the targa top and their helmet sticks above the B-piller top of the windshield plain. That is where potential problems arise and the need for the broom stick rule.

So just dont take the targa top off.

68sixspeed

Well, I was told by the tech official even with the top IN, no good.. bummer.

Makes no sense, like you say, the vette is a decent structure for protection. By those rules I'd need a bar sticking out of the roof.

AU N EGL

Politics my friend. They want to keep there events Marque only.

Find other events.

68sixspeed

yep, I'm thinking of bringing my z06 or even the camaro to one more even just for the fun factor, run the exhaust open, make some american noise. It's too bad, I'm friends with several instructors there so it makes it fun, also BMW does an excellent class portion - I've encouraged a lot of first timers to start there as the class room work is very detailed.

Luckily PDA and SCDA don't seem to have this rule so I'll keep running there. I was just getting concerned if this rule started popping up with those type of groups, it keeps 90% of vettes from running.

Lancer033

The way I read this is that if they want to let you run they can.

68sixspeed

Read appendix B though... I don't know a corvette that can pass it-- a line from the top of the roll bar or hoop to the structure by the front wheels (upper a-arm height), slices my head it 1/2, it's not even close. The driver has to be below it. Some cars are easier to get through this-- strut cars move this line up, etc.

AU N EGL

Easy just dont go to that BMWs clubs events.

keep your TOP on, never take the targa top off with any club. If you take your top off and your helmet is above the B-piller you will be black flagged and called in.

68sixspeed

yes, I only brush the headliner but I'd never take an open top car of any type on the track... seen a few people hurt in those when things go wrong.

I did hear BMW is reviewing this for next year, something tells me they didn't know what they did - it came down from the national club. Once they see open spots at track days they may rethink it. At least we have other options. (SCDA, PDA, etc.) What gets me is why don't we have a corvette version of the BMW CCA? Not just some weenies with stickers that argue over chalk marks on firewalls, a performance oriented group-- then we wouldn't have to join in with the BMW guys etc. end of rant...

AU N EGL

a few of us associated with National Corvette Museums HPDEs have started.

On the west coast Hooked on Driving will be doing a Corvette Event for NCM.

the NCM is doing there HPDE at VIR June 29-30 this year.

and we will have an announcement about another HPDE on the east coast very soon.

c4cruiser

Could it be that a clear top is causing the problem? A tech guy sees the clear top and decides that it may not have sufficient protection. Somebody with a solid top might pass tech if the tech inspector doesn't know the difference between a FRC and a coupe with the solid top.

It looks like the rules "may" permit a targa coupe but only with the top installed and the helmets are below the plane as described. Guess this could be an issue for tall guys, but if you can sit in the car with your helmet on and it meets the measurements, it still looks like the individual club can decide if you run.

Slalom4me

My vote is that the rule is a sincere effort to improve outcomes for
occupants in the event that a car is involved in a situation that
compromises the roof.

In the case of non-compliance, consider positioning the occupants
lower in the cockpit.

For a C4 coupe, my bare head was originally against the liner of the
hard top. With a helmet, I had to incline my head to the right to fit
into the seat. A clear top permitted an upright position with a helmet,
but minor bumps led to contact between the helmet and top.

Through the process of converting to an aftermarket seat for my C4,
the height of the bottom cushion was lowered significantly. IIRC,
there is now about 2" helmet space.

The aftermarket seat also provides for more leg room.

Owners whose physical characteristics lie outside the norm stand to
benefit in terms of safety, comfort and control by looking at modifying
or changing the seats.

.

jaa1992

OK, I'm all ears!!!!

What aftermarket seat did you install in your c4???
I have to remove the bottom cushion and my helmet still occasionally hits the clear top.

Slalom4me

A Kirkey Deluxe Road Race with the 18" seat bottom (#43900).

This seat needed to have the right side of the thigh support straighted
for clearance against the tunnel. Both shoulder wings were pulled
inward - clearance from the door jam was required on the left and the
right was brought in for symmetry.

Custom mounts were fabricated for mine, but I believe Hardbar offers
suitable brackets.

Kirkey also offers the Intermediate Road Race seat in a variety of
widths at a more economical price. Another vendor that several
CF members have purchased Road Race seats from is Ultra-Shield,
who offer a selection of Road Race seats.

The seats above generally do not accomodate OEM seat belts.

.

Bill Dearborn

That rule isn't applicable for all BMW club events. One of the larger chapters posts their tech sheet online and there is no mention of a similar rule in their package.
http://gvc-bmwcca.org/_download/GVC_Tech_Medical.pdf

Bill

68sixspeed

interesting... CT has it, Patroon (NY) told me it was from the national level, maybe GVC hasn't updated to it yet or didn't update the website. (it did say 3/2008, this is new for 2009)

Best part is, regardless of a cage - unless I'm in solo-advanced or instructor and with their approval they won't let the c5 (targa) run. I'm solo with SCDA, but not bmw.

Oh well, I'll take my toys elsewhere... I more wanted to post it as a note to others that might not have caught the new rule, better to find this stuff now than in the tech lane at the event.

Bill Dearborn

GVC did update their site. That tech sheet is the one for the new season which starts with their event at Watkins Glen in May.

Maybe you should try GVC at the Glen? A lot more interesting than Lime Rock anyways.

Bill

68sixspeed

It's a thought... I like the Glen, well, except all the barriers... (aka the blue bushes), too many things to hit!

Slalom4me

This used to be a coupe
The images appeared in mountainbiker2's thread here several years ago:
Not a track incident, but illustrative of the damage an E46 M3 coupe
can sustain in a single vehicle rollover:
.

Kubs

Is that a foot in the trunk of that M3?