Olitho

A friend of mine races Spec Miata, but he wants to build more powerful and fun to drive track car.

Does the 96 C4 Coupe with 330 hp LT4 motor make for a decent track car?

Your thoughts on the viability of this car as a fun, reasonably fast, relatively inexpensive and easy to maintain car.

How much are things like rotors and pads on this car. Will it go through them as fast as the C5s?

How much are new engines?

What else.


Oli

rmackintosh

I race the car at the left. It is an bored out LT1. They are not the easiest of engines to work with, what with the optispark and the like, but not bad once you get it built right.

I have a TON of buddies that run Spec Miatas.....THEY ARE CHEAP TO RACE....tell your buddy to double/triple his budget for everything.....from tires to gas and in between.

Corvette brakes...a lot use them, but they can be "finicky" when raced hard. Don't know about those years brakes though.

eschantra

I used to run a '92 LT1 in HPDEs and loved it, and I would get a C4 track car in a heartbeat. Mine had a VBP C5 front brake kit with Hawk HP+ pads and would use about 30-40% of the pad in four 15min sessions at NHIS. That said, it's been 4 years since I sold it so I'm not really qualified to answer the other questions, though the cars seem pretty bulletproof as long as the Optispark is sparking

rfn026

Keep in mind that he's talking about a track car. the Spec Miata is a race car. Those are two totally different things. I run a C4 as a track car. It's dirt cheap to run. Then again I'm not trying to beat anyone. That's why it's so cheap to run.

Too many people confuse track days with racing. They're not even close. That is especially important when it comes to your budget.

Richard Newton
Race Cars 360

Z11409

Factory Five Racecars

Richard EVO

That post is a bit cryptic. Do you mean that Factory Five bases some of their cars on the C4? LT4?

spazegun2213

I dont think they are at all based on GM stuff. I think he was saying they are cheap, reliable and easy to race/maintain.

I was going to say mustang's are normally cheap and easy to maintain as well. Getting them to handle is not as hard as one would imagine, but it can get expensive.

OP: What is your price range? are you looking to race or just track? will you drive this on the street or to/from events?

Akcelr8 N VA

Oli, I have a '93 with a GM Goodwrench LT4 in it and it is a fun track car but a few things have to be done to make it reliable. Replacing the stock oil pan with a road race "baffled" pan is a must. The LT motors will oil starve on a road course with the stock pan. Adding a Accusump is good insurance as well.

The C4s have both 12 and 13 inch rotors. The 12s won't hold up to track use. The J55 calipers for the 13s will spread with hard use. The C4 rotors are close to $90 each. With fabricating a mounting bracket (someone use to make these for sale) the C5 Caliper works on the C4, doesn't spread, and the rotors are around $40 each. I go through rotors and calipers the same rate as my C5 Z06 track mates do.

As for the cost of an LT4 engine, I don't think they're available anymore. I believe I purchased one of the last LT4 GM Goodwrench motors available back in 2006. The LT4, however, with some minor modifications (GM Lt4 hotcam and LT headers) and a tune will run very well and be comparable to a stock C5 Z06.

Under the what else category are the problems with C4 wheel bearings. Constant checking for wear is required and annual replacement is not uncommon.

Bottom line is that a C4 is a relatively inexpensive fun track car that will run with the front of the pack but requires some attention. If I had to do it over, however, I'd start with a C5. I hope this helps.

mrc24x

Don't rule out the older L98's either. The 245 hp sounds pretty weak but a quick intake swap (mini ram) and a good exhaust will put you in the 300+ territory. '89 and up have the ZF6 and the good diff. (D44)

Richard EVO

I'm the "friend." I am looking for a track day car that I can keep registered and drive to and from the track. I would not be using it as a daily driver. It will not be a fully-race-prepped car, and I would not use it in wheel-to-wheel races, as I was not planning to put a full cage, fire system, etc. etc. in it.

My budget is as cheap as I can get a reliable track day Corvette. That's why I'm not looking for a C5.

The kinds of things I want to know (thanks AkcelR8 N VA) are does the engine have oiling problems (apparently yes), is it hard on brakes (apparently yes), etc.

Also, if anyone can answer these questions:

Is there a bolt in or other pre-fabbed rollbar available to fit in a '96 C4 Coupe? I prefer not to go to the expense of a custom roll cage at this point.

What are the widest rear wheels and tires that will fit under the existing rear wheel arches without modification?

What suspension modifications do you recommend (this is the one area where I am actually willing to spend some money).

Can I run it on track safely on California ****-water 91 octane?

Anything else you can think of would be greatly appreciated.

sothpaw2

I'll agree that my experience with the c4 showed oil starvation was a MAJOR issue w/the stock pan. I had the GM extremed duty timing chain in there and it ruined the engine because of the oiling issues and because the gear they use in the kit is a POS (it's not hardened at all--annealed steel). This showed up immediately after just 2 days at Pocono (banking is really hard an oiling systems). I'd recommend a stock LT1 setup or stock L98 and the LT4 is a maaaaaybe since the cam gear on that was pretty soft also. Many w/the LT4 or modded LT1 run electric waterpumps to get around this problem.

Oli, do you think the C5Z stock pan is substantially better? I avoid banked courses now (Nascar banking).

Andy

Aardwolf

Sounds like a good deal at six. If the car is in decent condition you can strip parts out and sell them for pretty good prices. Things like the radio, sun visors, stock seats, etc.

New large sway bars is where I would start, alignment, race seat and harness, brake ducting, the oil pan mentioned. I think up to a 335 tire fits.

Akcelr8 N VA

Let me clarify my "oiling" issue. My problem was with the pickup and pan design. In hard right-hand turns oil is moved away from the pickup. Ok, for the next set of questions: Autopower, Kirk, and Exotic Muscle all have a four point "bolt in" roll bar (they call it a chassis stiffener for legal reasons). I have the Kirk. As for tires I run 275/40 17 in front and 315/35-17 with the standard 96 Grandsport offset. They fit with no problem. As for suspension, I use the Z51 front and rear springs from a 1989 (the later C4s used softer spring rates) and a solid 30mm front bar with a 26mm rear and run neg 2 degrees front camber and neg 1 degree rear. This gives me a neutral handling, quick turn-in, and is easy to induce rotation when needed. Concerning the 91 octane, I don't believe that should be an issue. And lastly, I forgot to mention anything about the C4 Optispark distributer. All the LT motors have this. The good news is that the 1996 version is the best of the lot. The bad news is they still aren't very reliable. I ran my LT1 for years without replacement however I'm now on my 3rd for my LT4 in just over 18 months. The first was an Accel that lasted 5 months the second was a GM Performance that I think I killed with brake cleaner, and the last one was a GM Performance that died last weekend at Summit Point for no apparrent reason. I'm going with the MSD this time. Good luck with your C4. By the way, I tracked my C4 for years 2001 to 2006 with no engine modifications, only safety, seats and brakes and it was fast enough to keep it interesting and extremely reliable. --Ralph

Z11409

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FORD 9" REAR WITH "WATTS" LINKAGE REAR SUSPENSION
BREMBO BRAKES WITH COCKPIT BIAS ADJUSTMENT
Full Analog Gauge Setup (replaced the PI Dash, still have this)
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0Vector Vette

I ran this car in SCCA for 11 years. It is a 383 LT4 that makes 465 rwhp. This car is for sale by the way, though I know it isn't what you are looking for.


GM extreme duty timing chain (made by cloyes) is a must. I once blew up an engine so bad the block broke between 2 and 4, 4 and 6, and out the side between 6 and 8. Timing chain didn't break, in fact I never did break that chain. Stock chain broke the second time I ran the car, when the engine was still a 350 and not as much hp. Canton road racing oil pan and pickup is a must. I am not convinced about accusump being needed. Biggest issue by far, optispark. They suck. I broke so many of those I couldn't count that high. Finally figured out what the problem is with them. The MSD unit solved the problem, or we can tell you how to fix it. Don't even waste your time with the stock setup. Brakes are a weak link. We have an adapter to mount a Wilwood caliper to the C4, which is a step up. We also have a kit to put an AP Racing 6 piston front caliper on with 13 x 1.25 rotors that is awesome. This is what I ran for the last 4 years.

66IISS

I run a 96 LT4 and my thoughts mirror those of the others.

Largest (width) rear tire you can run is a 335. I do it, as do many others, without issues.

The c4's tend to be very tail happy.

There are 4 point bolt in cages available.

Oiling is a huge issue and if it's addressed (canton pan, maybe a new pump) the engine should run forever. It's a strong motor and many people have 150k+ miles on. You wont get that far with the stock oil pan and road racing work. Also, it is expensive to replace the engine parts with stock type parts. Thankfully, the LT engines take all 350 (1 piece rear seal) engine stuff with a few exceptions. Water pumps are expensive, timing chains are hard to find and the timing set is expensive. It's cheaper to run the the LSX motors, but more expensive than the Gen 1 small blocks.

With suspension and (some) engine work, I run with C5 Z06's all day.

The car EATS wheel bearings for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Wheel bearings are also expensive, be prepared to buy a set a year.

The car overheats brakes on brake intensive courses, I've boiled the fluid in the old '90 more than once. This can be cured (as well as several other issues) by upgrading to C5 brakes. It's a fun track car and I like it a lot, you'll enjoy it more than a power-less spec miata.

Rob Burgoon

Hmph... sounds like all the issues of the C5/C6 except worse...

mgarfias

And they have 30% more parts than a C5. Having worked on both, I'd recommend finding an older C5 and tracking that rather than a C4.

Aardwolf

Since your planning to drive it to and from the track, you'll be staying on street tires? I've only gone through one bearing in the last four years on street tires.

Richard EVO

Re: tires: I have a lot of experience driving to and from the track on R-compounds that I use on the track. It creates no issues. Probably will run NT-01s assuming they make them in my C4 size.

Re: C5. What can you buy a good early used C5 with manual gearbox for?