Running in the heat at Barber and Road Atlanta
06-04-2009, 08:53 PM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Running in the heat at Barber and Road Atlanta
Plans are a good thing and everyone should make them. Everyone should try to execute the plan but sometimes, even after making plans well in advance and checking them twice, no plan actually survives contact with reality. Jake planned to race at Barber and we planned on taking two cars to Barber and Road Atlanta for the NASA and Chin events - neither happened. Jake ended up getting scheduled to work the weekend, the Corvette did not get any attention (it did manage to have the track grime washed off) so it was not really ready for the track and Josh was already at my Mom's house in Gadsden so there was no one to drive a second car over. What did go as planned was the trailer had the leaks repaired, the CMC Mustang was loaded, the truck was gassed up and everything was ready to go. Except for loosing the trailer brakes (the wheel on the side of the brake controller does have a purpose) in the hills around Anniston there were absolutely no issues in getting to Barber or checking in. It was a late night by the time everybody was checked in and settled in the paddock but the accommodations at the Treadwell Mansion were topnotch. I think the upstairs remodeling has made the resident ghosts a little shy though.
The Time Trial grid was packed out with 40+ cars on the grid. Several new track records were set and with heavy class participation many Hoosier tires were won in Time Trial. The biggest single issue in TT is getting the classification paperwork correct for the car being run. With the contingencies now on the line it is important for every competitor to make sure their paperwork is accurate and defendable. The level of preparation and competition in TT has definitely stepped up now that their is a payout for winning. There were quite a few super sized racers along with a good crop of rookies on track every session to keep everybody on their toes and playing well with others. There were no major incidents in TT, mostly due to the experience level on the grid, and that makes it much easier on the director. Soon we will have a car on the TT grid again. Hopefully, something to annoy the Leonards with.
Since Jake could not make it I figured, what the heck, I will take the foam out of the seat and race the Mustang in CMC. The Thunder race group with 46 cars on a relatively slow track seemed like a great place for my cherry NASA race. Not having a lot of seat time in the car it was interesting in the practice. I picked up pretty quick that I did not need to drive it like a C5 Corvette since it is nowhere near traction limited under throttle. Qualifying was three seconds faster by straightening the corner exits, threshold braking and never lifting the throttle except to brake. Not to be arrogant (never an issue with me - honest) but since the car was lapping 13-14 seconds a lap slower then the Vette it was like running at halfspeed - a good driver could probably close the gap. The horsepower was missed when correcting the inevitable errors - I had to actually fix it by driving the car or loosing position. To my surprise I was gridded 25 out of 46 cars and first in CMC. I was expecting to be at the back of the pack and watch the race happen in front of me. Instead, I was in amongst a bunch of 944 and BMW guys intent on winning the race in the first three turns. I was able to run clean but did get 6 or 7 cars between Pete (leading CMC car after the furball) and me. I had picked off all of them except for one car going onto the front straight (lap 2 or 3 - I cannot remember) when I saw yellow flags. There was a pretty good tangle of 944s and BMWs at T1 that took a while to clean up. When we went green flag everybody was all bunched up again with me 1 car behind Pete. Most CMC cars and 944s turn similar lap speeds but in different places. It was nice to have cars around to run with, and use to your advantage, but racing out of class is not real productive. The driving skills were interesting to say the least. Time Trialers, by and large, have better car control skills then a lot of the new comp license guys and race craft builds on car control. It seems the preferred passing method is on the grass or dive bombing. The part about exit speed seems to be forgotten (Mustang on pavement faster then an unsettled 944 on grass) but eventually they were far enough back not to be an issue. Once I got the fast 944s in front and the slow 944s behind I was able to concentrate on racing Pete. His car has more power then mine on a good day and after 25 minutes on track our car was missing due to hot gas. Luckily, my car had much better tires and was able to close the gap under braking and cornering. I did notice threshold braking at nearly every turn did heat the brakes and tires right up. After clearing the traffic I made the pass on Pete at the hairpin (with far more brake lockup then I was planning on) and was able to beat him in the drag race to the turn in at the corkscrew (barely). Somehow we ended up with a 944 between us and Pete spent most of the rest of the race trying to get around him and I spent the rest of the race trying to get as much distance as my brakes and tires would allow. I am fairly sure he was right behind me at the finish but I was flat to the floor hoping for the best. If it was not for Pete and Greg our CMC car would not be in the shape it is today - it is the other racers helping out that makes this sport so much fun. Once we get the heat issues resolved we can look at adding some legal HP.
Since we do this for fun we chose not to run the Sunday Thunder race due to its late timing and our need to check in and drop trailers at Road Atlanta to run with Chin on Monday. So after Josh tired of tormenting the HPDE crowd, and the afternoon TT session was run, we headed out. The traffic was not bad all the way there but it is a solid three hours from Barber to Road Atlanta. Check in, tech, and trailer drop off was painless so we hooked up with Southern Son for dinner before heading to Bob's for another night of decadent comfort.
Road Atlanta with space in the paddock and lots of open track is hard to beat. Josh logged a solid 3+ hours on track (enough to get the gas good and hot) and did not go off once. Jake rolled in late and picked up a last gen RX7 student. I gave 5 or 6 checkrides - in all the excitement I lost count. The car I most wanted to keep all weekend was the GT3 though. The Road Atlanta tax was paid by a Cayman S at T3, hard hit in right rear quarter, experienced driver - bad day. Chip Herr and Seth Thomas were at the event - other then the drivers meeting I did not see them, to recognize, again though. Several drivers had a stomach bug and had to leave early. Fred thoughtfully left us a reminder near our trailer before heading to Pooler. Khoi made his first track outing since his quintuple bypass and brought us lunch. He looked really good (Angela looked better) and he was proudly showing off his scars. Jake took Cameron out on the parade laps in the Shelby GT - so it has made its track debut. Jake says the car "really liked" the feel of a race track. There are a lot of things I really like that I do not get to do so the "car" will have to get over the "feeling".
We will be missing Road Atlanta with NASA in June (work is inconvenient) but will make 26 Jun at Roebling (SeatTIme) and VIR Jul 1&2 (Chin) and Lowes on 3 Jul (NASA-SE).
The Time Trial grid was packed out with 40+ cars on the grid. Several new track records were set and with heavy class participation many Hoosier tires were won in Time Trial. The biggest single issue in TT is getting the classification paperwork correct for the car being run. With the contingencies now on the line it is important for every competitor to make sure their paperwork is accurate and defendable. The level of preparation and competition in TT has definitely stepped up now that their is a payout for winning. There were quite a few super sized racers along with a good crop of rookies on track every session to keep everybody on their toes and playing well with others. There were no major incidents in TT, mostly due to the experience level on the grid, and that makes it much easier on the director. Soon we will have a car on the TT grid again. Hopefully, something to annoy the Leonards with.
Since Jake could not make it I figured, what the heck, I will take the foam out of the seat and race the Mustang in CMC. The Thunder race group with 46 cars on a relatively slow track seemed like a great place for my cherry NASA race. Not having a lot of seat time in the car it was interesting in the practice. I picked up pretty quick that I did not need to drive it like a C5 Corvette since it is nowhere near traction limited under throttle. Qualifying was three seconds faster by straightening the corner exits, threshold braking and never lifting the throttle except to brake. Not to be arrogant (never an issue with me - honest) but since the car was lapping 13-14 seconds a lap slower then the Vette it was like running at halfspeed - a good driver could probably close the gap. The horsepower was missed when correcting the inevitable errors - I had to actually fix it by driving the car or loosing position. To my surprise I was gridded 25 out of 46 cars and first in CMC. I was expecting to be at the back of the pack and watch the race happen in front of me. Instead, I was in amongst a bunch of 944 and BMW guys intent on winning the race in the first three turns. I was able to run clean but did get 6 or 7 cars between Pete (leading CMC car after the furball) and me. I had picked off all of them except for one car going onto the front straight (lap 2 or 3 - I cannot remember) when I saw yellow flags. There was a pretty good tangle of 944s and BMWs at T1 that took a while to clean up. When we went green flag everybody was all bunched up again with me 1 car behind Pete. Most CMC cars and 944s turn similar lap speeds but in different places. It was nice to have cars around to run with, and use to your advantage, but racing out of class is not real productive. The driving skills were interesting to say the least. Time Trialers, by and large, have better car control skills then a lot of the new comp license guys and race craft builds on car control. It seems the preferred passing method is on the grass or dive bombing. The part about exit speed seems to be forgotten (Mustang on pavement faster then an unsettled 944 on grass) but eventually they were far enough back not to be an issue. Once I got the fast 944s in front and the slow 944s behind I was able to concentrate on racing Pete. His car has more power then mine on a good day and after 25 minutes on track our car was missing due to hot gas. Luckily, my car had much better tires and was able to close the gap under braking and cornering. I did notice threshold braking at nearly every turn did heat the brakes and tires right up. After clearing the traffic I made the pass on Pete at the hairpin (with far more brake lockup then I was planning on) and was able to beat him in the drag race to the turn in at the corkscrew (barely). Somehow we ended up with a 944 between us and Pete spent most of the rest of the race trying to get around him and I spent the rest of the race trying to get as much distance as my brakes and tires would allow. I am fairly sure he was right behind me at the finish but I was flat to the floor hoping for the best. If it was not for Pete and Greg our CMC car would not be in the shape it is today - it is the other racers helping out that makes this sport so much fun. Once we get the heat issues resolved we can look at adding some legal HP.
Since we do this for fun we chose not to run the Sunday Thunder race due to its late timing and our need to check in and drop trailers at Road Atlanta to run with Chin on Monday. So after Josh tired of tormenting the HPDE crowd, and the afternoon TT session was run, we headed out. The traffic was not bad all the way there but it is a solid three hours from Barber to Road Atlanta. Check in, tech, and trailer drop off was painless so we hooked up with Southern Son for dinner before heading to Bob's for another night of decadent comfort.
Road Atlanta with space in the paddock and lots of open track is hard to beat. Josh logged a solid 3+ hours on track (enough to get the gas good and hot) and did not go off once. Jake rolled in late and picked up a last gen RX7 student. I gave 5 or 6 checkrides - in all the excitement I lost count. The car I most wanted to keep all weekend was the GT3 though. The Road Atlanta tax was paid by a Cayman S at T3, hard hit in right rear quarter, experienced driver - bad day. Chip Herr and Seth Thomas were at the event - other then the drivers meeting I did not see them, to recognize, again though. Several drivers had a stomach bug and had to leave early. Fred thoughtfully left us a reminder near our trailer before heading to Pooler. Khoi made his first track outing since his quintuple bypass and brought us lunch. He looked really good (Angela looked better) and he was proudly showing off his scars. Jake took Cameron out on the parade laps in the Shelby GT - so it has made its track debut. Jake says the car "really liked" the feel of a race track. There are a lot of things I really like that I do not get to do so the "car" will have to get over the "feeling".
We will be missing Road Atlanta with NASA in June (work is inconvenient) but will make 26 Jun at Roebling (SeatTIme) and VIR Jul 1&2 (Chin) and Lowes on 3 Jul (NASA-SE).
06-04-2009, 10:52 PM
#2
Safety Car
Temp was definitely hot. Thermo said 93*. Car would go about 15 min before oil temps got to 295. One cool down lap and they would be back to 275. I am thinking that might be the best I can hope for considering ambient temps and 402 block.
Really liked the variety of cars there. The '68 Dodge Dart was much faster than expected, the Audi R8 looked and ran awesome, the MTI CTS was FAST, as was the Lamborghini and the ZR1. My friend got to ride in the ZR1 and was most impressed by the car. MTI also had a new Camaro there with a supercharger, but it never made it to the track. My track ***** friend also got a ride in the Viper and was most impressed with the driver and car(he has only ridden with me at VIR until then).
Thanks for the checkride and signing me off to solo. Overall, I was pretty disappointed with my progress throughout the day. I never really got a good rhythm all day. Track was pretty empty from about 4:45 to 5:15, and I did finally get some laps in that seem pretty consistent. I repl my Vredesteins with PS2s last week. It took most of the day to find the correct temp to where they could grip and turn. Turn 9 at anything above 140 was a handfull. Not sure if that is a tire thing or a suspension thing. I plan on being back later in the summer. All in all, a much better day than being at work.
Really liked the variety of cars there. The '68 Dodge Dart was much faster than expected, the Audi R8 looked and ran awesome, the MTI CTS was FAST, as was the Lamborghini and the ZR1. My friend got to ride in the ZR1 and was most impressed by the car. MTI also had a new Camaro there with a supercharger, but it never made it to the track. My track ***** friend also got a ride in the Viper and was most impressed with the driver and car(he has only ridden with me at VIR until then).
Thanks for the checkride and signing me off to solo. Overall, I was pretty disappointed with my progress throughout the day. I never really got a good rhythm all day. Track was pretty empty from about 4:45 to 5:15, and I did finally get some laps in that seem pretty consistent. I repl my Vredesteins with PS2s last week. It took most of the day to find the correct temp to where they could grip and turn. Turn 9 at anything above 140 was a handfull. Not sure if that is a tire thing or a suspension thing. I plan on being back later in the summer. All in all, a much better day than being at work.
06-05-2009, 06:25 AM
#3
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Temp was definitely hot. Thermo said 93*. Car would go about 15 min before oil temps got to 295. One cool down lap and they would be back to 275. I am thinking that might be the best I can hope for considering ambient temps and 402 block.
Really liked the variety of cars there. The '68 Dodge Dart was much faster than expected, the Audi R8 looked and ran awesome, the MTI CTS was FAST, as was the Lamborghini and the ZR1. My friend got to ride in the ZR1 and was most impressed by the car. MTI also had a new Camaro there with a supercharger, but it never made it to the track. My track ***** friend also got a ride in the Viper and was most impressed with the driver and car(he has only ridden with me at VIR until then).
Thanks for the checkride and signing me off to solo. Overall, I was pretty disappointed with my progress throughout the day. I never really got a good rhythm all day. Track was pretty empty from about 4:45 to 5:15, and I did finally get some laps in that seem pretty consistent. I repl my Vredesteins with PS2s last week. It took most of the day to find the correct temp to where they could grip and turn. Turn 9 at anything above 140 was a handfull. Not sure if that is a tire thing or a suspension thing. I plan on being back later in the summer. All in all, a much better day than being at work.
Really liked the variety of cars there. The '68 Dodge Dart was much faster than expected, the Audi R8 looked and ran awesome, the MTI CTS was FAST, as was the Lamborghini and the ZR1. My friend got to ride in the ZR1 and was most impressed by the car. MTI also had a new Camaro there with a supercharger, but it never made it to the track. My track ***** friend also got a ride in the Viper and was most impressed with the driver and car(he has only ridden with me at VIR until then).
Thanks for the checkride and signing me off to solo. Overall, I was pretty disappointed with my progress throughout the day. I never really got a good rhythm all day. Track was pretty empty from about 4:45 to 5:15, and I did finally get some laps in that seem pretty consistent. I repl my Vredesteins with PS2s last week. It took most of the day to find the correct temp to where they could grip and turn. Turn 9 at anything above 140 was a handfull. Not sure if that is a tire thing or a suspension thing. I plan on being back later in the summer. All in all, a much better day than being at work.
The new Camaro ran at Road Atlanta (and Barber) - I would guess it was knocking down high 1:30's based on the GT3 I was in at the time.
Your temps seem hot for conditions....
06-05-2009, 10:12 AM
#6
Race Director
Member Since: Oct 2000
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Thanks for the check out endorsement, ole buddy! At first, I thought I did not make the grade when you started your critique of the ride! Ever the consumate instructor! Of course, you are correct on all accounts. Thanks again. 
06-05-2009, 11:48 AM
#8
Le Mans Master
I agree. I never saw oil temps over 265* and I was running pretty hard. Did you ever fix the radiator and shroud?
Can't believe I missed the ZR1.
We'll miss you guys next weekend Jeff.
Can't believe I missed the ZR1.
We'll miss you guys next weekend Jeff.
06-05-2009, 12:38 PM
#9
Safety Car
I have stood my radiator back up and it is like stock mostly now. I am still running the dyno oil, so hopefully when I switch to syn, it will run cooler. I have the same B&M cooler as you so I may upgrade to the SETRAB maybe, but I do not know what else to do. I can't believe it is just the nature of the 402. Were you there? I talked to most all the C5 people.
06-05-2009, 01:14 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Yep in DE3. I brought the wife and kids with me so I didn't get out to visit much. Saturday afternnon and Sunday morning I was fighting a busted CV boot which took up a little time as well. Maybe I'll see you at Road ATL next weekend.
06-05-2009, 04:07 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
he was at Barber not Road Atlanta - the wuss...
06-05-2009, 04:08 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
06-05-2009, 06:19 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
I swear I don't see how you guys do it. I was beyond exhausted Sunday on the trip home. There was no way in hell I could have done another full day on Sunday. Plus I'm out of tires. I don't know what I'm gonna run on next weekend and Road ATL - maybe the 7 year old supercars again. At least that way you're guaranteed to be faster than me (maybe) .
06-06-2009, 08:04 AM
#14
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I thought I was going to spend the rest of the day in the Green Group too! After a year in Green Group, passing and point-by habits went with me into the Blue Group checkride with Jeff and he was very quick to point out the difference. He signed me off anyway and the habits were quickly broken in my next session. Thanks for the way you handled it Jeff .... lesson learned and it made for a great day at Road Atlanta.
Bob
06-06-2009, 08:06 AM
#15
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I swear I don't see how you guys do it. I was beyond exhausted Sunday on the trip home. There was no way in hell I could have done another full day on Sunday.
I only ran 2 sessions Sunday before we headed for RA, and on Monday at RA I just worked on a couple corners and didn't really push to ludicrous speed on the rest of the lap.
06-06-2009, 09:33 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
I thought I was going to spend the rest of the day in the Green Group too! After a year in Green Group, passing and point-by habits went with me into the Blue Group checkride with Jeff and he was very quick to point out the difference. He signed me off anyway and the habits were quickly broken in my next session. Thanks for the way you handled it Jeff .... lesson learned and it made for a great day at Road Atlanta.
Bob
If you have a car behind you for more then 5 seconds you are making a mistake!
06-06-2009, 07:12 PM
#18
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06-06-2009, 10:01 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
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