[graphic] I'm glad I have a 6pt harness
06-10-2009, 01:11 PM
#1
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Member Since: Mar 2001
Location: Boston, Dallas, Detroit, SoCal, back to Boston MA
Posts: 30,606
Received 239 Likes
on
167 Posts
[graphic] I'm glad I have a 6pt harness
Ouch!
-----Original Message-----
From: ne-svt@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:31 PM
To: ne-svt@googlegroups.com
Subject: NE-SVT: Harnesses
Everyone (especially guys) who use a harness should look at this (some graphic images, be warned, may be NSFW, but is still important to read).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...83895ccdb#fig1
This is one of those images that you won't soon forget (and shouldn't). In light of this, I'd like to start a discussion on harnesses. I just spent a considerable amount of money on seats for my Lotus so that I could run the OEM lap belts. I currently have a Willans 4 point harness. I've read that 4 point harnesses (without ASM) can be dangerous and that many places require 5 or 6 point harnesses. Having seen the above link, I'm not sure I really want to run a 5/6 pt. On the other, other hand, I know that my 4-pt harness (both the Willans I currently have and the Scroth that I used to have) both ride up to high when tightened (this can also cause serious internal injury/death). I also really like the way that my 4-pt harness holds me in place.
So, what is the collective wisdom (4-pt., 5/6 pt. or OEM belts)? I'm not opposed to spending money on my safety, but I just want to make sure I do what is best.
I'm kind of leaning towards just using the OEM belts. The new seats I bought have a lot of support, so I'm somewhat hopeful that I won't need the "bracing" of the harness to hold me in place. They are also a lot easier to live with while driving on the street.
-Paul
(although my "buddies" are now "mission accomplished," I still want them around)
From: ne-svt@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 12:31 PM
To: ne-svt@googlegroups.com
Subject: NE-SVT: Harnesses
Everyone (especially guys) who use a harness should look at this (some graphic images, be warned, may be NSFW, but is still important to read).
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...83895ccdb#fig1
This is one of those images that you won't soon forget (and shouldn't). In light of this, I'd like to start a discussion on harnesses. I just spent a considerable amount of money on seats for my Lotus so that I could run the OEM lap belts. I currently have a Willans 4 point harness. I've read that 4 point harnesses (without ASM) can be dangerous and that many places require 5 or 6 point harnesses. Having seen the above link, I'm not sure I really want to run a 5/6 pt. On the other, other hand, I know that my 4-pt harness (both the Willans I currently have and the Scroth that I used to have) both ride up to high when tightened (this can also cause serious internal injury/death). I also really like the way that my 4-pt harness holds me in place.
So, what is the collective wisdom (4-pt., 5/6 pt. or OEM belts)? I'm not opposed to spending money on my safety, but I just want to make sure I do what is best.
I'm kind of leaning towards just using the OEM belts. The new seats I bought have a lot of support, so I'm somewhat hopeful that I won't need the "bracing" of the harness to hold me in place. They are also a lot easier to live with while driving on the street.
-Paul
(although my "buddies" are now "mission accomplished," I still want them around)
06-10-2009, 01:39 PM
#2
Race Director
Ouch,
First off the medical write up says it may be possible that the belts were not tight enough (second collision resulting).
Also they mention a crotch strap & I can't tell if the harness was a 6 point PLUS a crotch strap? Would not make sense.
My guess is he wasn't properly settled/secured into the harness.
The seat AND harness have to be designed/used as a unit to function for max protection in the worst case crash, yes?
First off the medical write up says it may be possible that the belts were not tight enough (second collision resulting).
Also they mention a crotch strap & I can't tell if the harness was a 6 point PLUS a crotch strap? Would not make sense.
My guess is he wasn't properly settled/secured into the harness.
The seat AND harness have to be designed/used as a unit to function for max protection in the worst case crash, yes?
06-10-2009, 03:08 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
So how do you attach a six point? My EVO seat only has one slot in the front bottom to pull the belt down through to attach it to the bar. Do you have to cut up the seat to make slots under your thighs for the two lower belts to go through?
06-10-2009, 04:15 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 8,868
Received 1,751 Likes
on
941 Posts
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
I guess it depends on how you mount a 5 point. What if instead of straight down you angle it to the front of the car. This way the lap belts hold you back and nothing interferes with the crotch. You just have to tighten it after the lap belts but before the the shoulder belts. It should work the same but keep your junk safe from impact with it. 
Just a thought.
Good article Brian. Something to think about.
Just a thought.Good article Brian. Something to think about.
06-10-2009, 04:35 PM
#9
Instructor
Member Since: Mar 2006
Location: Fairborn Ohio
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
60 mph frontal impact resulting in hurt *****. I think the harness did it's job. You are fooling yourself if you believe you will ever be 100% safe from all injury. If racing were as safe as sitting on the sofa at home it would cease to be interesting. I/E the direction Nascar is headed. I'll take the stiched up sack and a bag of frozen peas over the alternative.
06-10-2009, 04:48 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2007
Location: Akron Ohio
Posts: 8,868
Received 1,751 Likes
on
941 Posts
2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
2022 C5 of the Year Finalist - Modified
St. Jude Donor '09-'10-'11
60 mph frontal impact resulting in hurt *****. I think the harness did it's job. You are fooling yourself if you believe you will ever be 100% safe from all injury. If racing were as safe as sitting on the sofa at home it would cease to be interesting. I/E the direction Nascar is headed. I'll take the stiched up sack and a bag of frozen peas over the alternative.
06-10-2009, 05:11 PM
#12
Drifting
06-10-2009, 05:45 PM
#13
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,085
Received 8,926 Likes
on
5,332 Posts
I guess it depends on how you mount a 5 point. What if instead of straight down you angle it to the front of the car. This way the lap belts hold you back and nothing interferes with the crotch. You just have to tighten it after the lap belts but before the the shoulder belts. It should work the same but keep your junk safe from impact with it. Just a thought.
Good article Brian. Something to think about.
Just a thought.Good article Brian. Something to think about.
Bill
06-10-2009, 05:50 PM
#14
Harnesses in my experience have always been uncomfortable to some extent. That being said, they are there to do a specific job so its a trade off. Of all the harnesses I've used the teamtech with the large crotch pad are the most comfortable. The jet pilot version is a six point with four hard mounting points so it installs just like a four point making it very easy to install correctly. I highly recommend anyone shopping for a harness to consider it.
06-10-2009, 06:12 PM
#15
Former Vendor
The co-driver in a rally car is often very low in the car and the seat angled way back. This is to put the weight in a better place. Maybe some of that got in the way. After about a 20 degree angle of layback, you should not be using a 5 point.
Please don't show this to my wife
Randy
Please don't show this to my wife
Randy
06-10-2009, 06:52 PM
#16
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Feb 2000
Location: Bedford NH
Posts: 5,708
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Cruise-In II Veteran
That is the #1 reason for the Teamtech Jetpilot, no sub belts per se. It is like a parachute or rock climbing harness. You would not jump out an aircraft and have the chute open with all your weight on one strap on your genitals would you?
Last edited by ghoffman; 06-11-2009 at 09:38 AM.
06-11-2009, 09:38 AM
#18
Safety Car
Interesting. I just had a safety presentation offshore that showed the EXACT same pictures and was told it's from wearing a safety harness incorrectly (required when working over 6ft height) and falling. I'll have to call out the HSE guy for stealing pictures.
06-11-2009, 12:24 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
With that much damage to his goods, I'd venture to say that the sub belt was way TOO tight as I've ridden with fellow instructors that had their sub belts way too tight and I swore I'd never ride with them again unless they loosened up the sub belt.
I don't buy a 'second impact'. If he was in a proper harness, I don't believe he would have sustained such damage to his goods.
What did the car look like????? and what type of car was it?
I've seen ALOT of belts installed a&*-backwards, too low on the rollbar to affect the spine on impact and I've even seen them installed onto a small guide wire fitting instead of the rollbar, believe it or not. There are rocket scientists out there driving Corvettes.
I notified an instructor at the NCM event a few years back that his student with the 427 twin turbo had the passenger belts installed backwards. He said that he didn't care and that he would use them all weekend, doing 160MPH+. You know who you are. Priceless....
OUCH.....
I don't buy a 'second impact'. If he was in a proper harness, I don't believe he would have sustained such damage to his goods.
What did the car look like????? and what type of car was it?
I've seen ALOT of belts installed a&*-backwards, too low on the rollbar to affect the spine on impact and I've even seen them installed onto a small guide wire fitting instead of the rollbar, believe it or not. There are rocket scientists out there driving Corvettes.
I notified an instructor at the NCM event a few years back that his student with the 427 twin turbo had the passenger belts installed backwards. He said that he didn't care and that he would use them all weekend, doing 160MPH+. You know who you are. Priceless....
OUCH.....