Wicked Weasel

How many run their slicks on wet pavement that has little to no standing water.

I am wondering at what point I should change from slicks to a wet tire.

Thanks

Bill Dearborn

If the pavement is damp the slicks probably will still do better than street tires. The tread on street tires is there to evacuate water from under the tire but if there isn't enough water on the pavement to flow into the tread gaps you are not gaining anything. At that point you are comparing the traction of two tires based on the lower friction surface of the damp pavement not on resistance to hydroplaning.

Last year I did an autocross in the rain. When we first arrived it was raining pretty heavily and I switched from my well worn Kumho 710s to my Firestone WOs which I use in the rain. The course was fairly wet with quite a few puddles and the first few runs seemed OK. Then I noticed the other competitors starting to turn much better times. The course didn't look much drier but the rain had slowed and I switched back to the Kumhos and my times dropped as well. The car was still sliding around a lot more than it would have on a dry course but I could feel the difference in the amount of sliding between the two sets of tires.

Bill

L98Terror

Slicks for the win!!!

Rains if there is puddles or running water, If you have brand new rains than if you look at the surface of the track and can see texture than stay with slicks but if you can't and all those little holes are filled with water and it looks like the rain will continue then go to Rains. Now if your talking about a street tire slicks are almost always faster unless it's raining really hard.

For HPDE I normally just run slicks, better practice. For a race I run what everyone else is.

davidfarmer

depends on the tires too....even the thinnest of grooves will save you if you hit a puddle here and there, while a true slick is useless.

If it truly is just wet surface with no standing water, then a slick is definitely better, although you do need to go out and practice (a fatal flaw of many DEer turned racer)

Short-Throw

Love your videos and you're a great driver!

I will be the first to admit I'm not that brave!

If I know there's going to be a rooster tail behind me, I'll stick with the rains. Even the wet line takes you over a portion of the 'black ice' and I'm okay yielding tire life for a little security! :o:o:o


Another consideration is the track. For example Road America dries very quickly (except the Hurry Downs section due to the shade) unlike my home track Autobahn which takes a lot longer.




One rain session = 20 dry sessions in car control!

Short-Throw

David,

It was far from just a wet surface, but I'll bet there are a handful of World Challenge drivers that wished they put rains on last year at the Sebring deluge.

Wicked Weasel

Thanks for the feedback.

I will be using either a or r 6s.

My though (confirmed here) was I could be running the slicks until there was standing water that was unavoidable at which time I would need to switch. Of course the level of grip would be less than dry but probably more than a general street tire.

In the past the first drops of water I would switch but the more time I am at the track the more I see people not switching which is why I asked.

Thanks.

95jersey

If it is wet on the track, but there is no rain falling at the moment, and the line is beginning to dry, I will run slicks (even if there are some puddles off line). If there is any kind of drizzle or consistent rain fall (even light), I will either not run the session or switch to street tires.

To me, since it is not a race and no one payes me to do this, I'd rather not run the risk. I've seen too many cars running into tire walls in the rain at events to run the risk.

Wicked Weasel

Normally that would be my attitude but after completing bondurant racing school I really want to do some racing next year so this year I am building up my knowledge/experience so I might be somewhat competitive next year.

The plan is to buy a used t1 car this winter and go from there. I doubt it will be anything more than a couple regional events but everyone starts somewhere and I believe I am ready to step up. HPDE is fun but its not racing.

95jersey

Wow, that would be great! Are you going to keep you current car or sell it?

Either way, I wish you all the luck Bob. You have become a very good driver and should do well.

Something else to try in the meantime might be Time Trials, while they are much different than W2W, but are competitive none the less. I find doing a couple a year to be fun and different from standard HPDE.

Good luck!

WBHighwind

I ran R6s in the rain for a session because when I went out it wasnt raining yet. It was some of the best car control testing Ive done. I went really slow around, but it was still fun.

Wicked Weasel

thanks! I will be keeping my current car. Not sure if it will go back to street only or not. We will see it is all on the drawing board right now and the winter is a long way away.

TT is a good idea. I should look into a few.

thehammer69

If the course looks like this over here:



<------------



Then you want rain or well treaded tires. Btw, this picture was taken with Kumho 710's on the car. They were working fine on the damp course until the bottom fell out of the sky.

97C5inSD

I don't have rain tires so i have no choice. still pulled one of the top 5 times of the day. had to run in Heat 1 by heat 2 and 3 the track was completly dry Just sucked since this was the last quarter of the course. But it was still intersting to manage that good of a time when everyone else had a completly dry track.

L98Terror

TT rocks, but you probably won't need rains for TT. Normally you have at least one dry or semi dry session.

BTW when I say slick I mean DOT Slick. I did a NCCC event in wet>drying conditions I ran slicks all day most everyone else ran streets in the rain I was faster than every car on streets only the guy with Hoosier rains was faster than I. R compount Rains > DOT Slicks>Streets in very wet conditions.

ZR1 MK

Slicks have the best traction on wet pavement with zero standing water as long as the track temps are above 45 degree.

Standing water on straight portion is marginal, but ok if you can drive.

Keep in mind, if you get heavy rain when you in the paddock, but it stop raining before you go out on track, you need to be aware of water runoff on any track with elevation changes. Two examples are, Lime Rocks before the uphill and Watkins Glens turn 2.

I bring my Toyos as track backups for rain use, but so far, never needed them.

Don Keefhardt

"It depends".

Helpful, huh ?

First, let's get some nomenclature correct - are we talking "slicks" or "DOT race tires" ? Very different beasts.

Among other crap, I race in an "open cockpit, single seat, rear engine sports racer" and use Goodyear bias-ply "slicks". The compound is great in the dry...but slippery-er than snot on a glass doorknob if it's the least bit damp. "Real" rain tires for that car are an entirely different compound...and make you feel like a god...amazing grip, even in standing water. But...get caught on a drying track on those tires and you'll trash them in 2-4 laps. T-R-A-S-H.

DOT race tires - some rubber compounds have great "damp grip" - Kumho 710's and the old Victoracer and Ecsta compounds...Yoko 008's....Bridgestone RE71R's (you gotta be OLD to remember these!!!)...but others are not so hot. You have to drive them in the damp to know what will stick and what won't stick.

Sometimes, the difference between "great" wet performance and "OK" wet performance isn't very much. Example - Me and my trusty co-driver once finished 3rd overall...and won Spec Miata (known to be just a "slightly competitive class") in a dry-wet-dry-wet-etc. 12 hour race...mostly by being competent in the wet...AND NEVER CHANGING TO RAIN TIRES. Yeah...we might have been off 2-4 secs./lap in the wet vs. the guys on real rain tires...but we didn't have to stop to change to rain tires...and then stop to change to dry tires...rinse and repeat, over and over. If you're interested- Kumho 710's rock in damp conditions, if you don't drive over your head.

The biggest lesson here - "Don't fall off the track". At the end of 12 hours, we still had all our fenders, we hadn't bounced off any walls, and all our competition had committed all those sins.

I've also raced the big nasty V8 thing in the wet, on what were essentially full-tread street tires. Lesson ? Don't do anything stupid, and you can put it on the podium.

Driving in the wet is an "art". Never give up the opportunity to play in the wet...you'll never know when those skills will become important.