Improve C4 Feel/Handling (Bush Kit Advice needed)
07-07-2009, 04:00 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Improve C4 Feel/Handling (Bush Kit Advice needed)
Looking for some advice on my C4 - its mainly a street driven car but does see the track occasionaly. I do like to drive hard and fast and I like to know I've got a good solid car underneath me.
Handling is not something I've addressed so far. I have a strong 383 engine, C5 Brakes, DRM Bias Spring, Rear Lowing Bolts and new KYB shocks all round - other than that its stock.
I've removed all of the spacers on the A Arms which from memory saw me -1.6-1.7d camber on the front and caster of around 5.5d I cant remeber 100% but I know they were within the "Track Baseline" settings. The Toe I had more trouble setting as there seemed to be so much variation every time I adjusted/test drove the car. But I beleive I got it to just to toe out very slightly.
The rear Camber was set to 0 but no toe adjustments were made.
I want to make sure everything is going to stay put before I go and have a professional alignment done.
While I was changing the diff at the weekend I noticed that the rear stabilizer link bush had completely failed on one side, there was some play on the top control rod (dog bone) of the same side and also the strut rod (camber) bushes looked to be in very bad shape.
I was looking at the total bushing kits availible from various places across the net but noticed that they lack both of the main peices I need from the rear... I was thinking of completely doing the rear and tackling the front at a later date but I'm unsure if this may give some adverse effects?
While I was at it I was looking at the adjustable rear strut rod links that eliminate the camber bolts, although this seems like a good idea would I see any real improvement over the stock setup? I'm looking to keep camber at around 0-.5neg
I'm really looking for the advice of those who have gone with urethne bush kits etc on a C4...
Are they worth the money?
Will I notice the difference?
If I can do all of them what are the MUST do's?
Thanks in advance!
Dan
Handling is not something I've addressed so far. I have a strong 383 engine, C5 Brakes, DRM Bias Spring, Rear Lowing Bolts and new KYB shocks all round - other than that its stock.
I've removed all of the spacers on the A Arms which from memory saw me -1.6-1.7d camber on the front and caster of around 5.5d I cant remeber 100% but I know they were within the "Track Baseline" settings. The Toe I had more trouble setting as there seemed to be so much variation every time I adjusted/test drove the car. But I beleive I got it to just to toe out very slightly.
The rear Camber was set to 0 but no toe adjustments were made.
I want to make sure everything is going to stay put before I go and have a professional alignment done.
While I was changing the diff at the weekend I noticed that the rear stabilizer link bush had completely failed on one side, there was some play on the top control rod (dog bone) of the same side and also the strut rod (camber) bushes looked to be in very bad shape.
I was looking at the total bushing kits availible from various places across the net but noticed that they lack both of the main peices I need from the rear... I was thinking of completely doing the rear and tackling the front at a later date but I'm unsure if this may give some adverse effects?
While I was at it I was looking at the adjustable rear strut rod links that eliminate the camber bolts, although this seems like a good idea would I see any real improvement over the stock setup? I'm looking to keep camber at around 0-.5neg
I'm really looking for the advice of those who have gone with urethne bush kits etc on a C4...
Are they worth the money?
Will I notice the difference?
If I can do all of them what are the MUST do's?
Thanks in advance!
Dan
07-07-2009, 04:19 PM
#2
Former Vendor
Looking for some advice on my C4 - its mainly a street driven car but does see the track occasionaly. I do like to drive hard and fast and I like to know I've got a good solid car underneath me.
Handling is not something I've addressed so far. I have a strong 383 engine, C5 Brakes, DRM Bias Spring, Rear Lowing Bolts and new KYB shocks all round - other than that its stock.
I've removed all of the spacers on the A Arms which from memory saw me -1.6-1.7d camber on the front and caster of around 5.5d I cant remeber 100% but I know they were within the "Track Baseline" settings. The Toe I had more trouble setting as there seemed to be so much variation every time I adjusted/test drove the car. But I beleive I got it to just to toe out very slightly.
The rear Camber was set to 0 but no toe adjustments were made.
I want to make sure everything is going to stay put before I go and have a professional alignment done.
While I was changing the diff at the weekend I noticed that the rear stabilizer link bush had completely failed on one side, there was some play on the top control rod (dog bone) of the same side and also the strut rod (camber) bushes looked to be in very bad shape.
I was looking at the total bushing kits availible from various places across the net but noticed that they lack both of the main peices I need from the rear... I was thinking of completely doing the rear and tackling the front at a later date but I'm unsure if this may give some adverse effects?
While I was at it I was looking at the adjustable rear strut rod links that eliminate the camber bolts, although this seems like a good idea would I see any real improvement over the stock setup? I'm looking to keep camber at around 0-.5neg
I'm really looking for the advice of those who have gone with urethne bush kits etc on a C4...
Are they worth the money?
Will I notice the difference?
If I can do all of them what are the MUST do's?
Thanks in advance!
Dan
Handling is not something I've addressed so far. I have a strong 383 engine, C5 Brakes, DRM Bias Spring, Rear Lowing Bolts and new KYB shocks all round - other than that its stock.
I've removed all of the spacers on the A Arms which from memory saw me -1.6-1.7d camber on the front and caster of around 5.5d I cant remeber 100% but I know they were within the "Track Baseline" settings. The Toe I had more trouble setting as there seemed to be so much variation every time I adjusted/test drove the car. But I beleive I got it to just to toe out very slightly.
The rear Camber was set to 0 but no toe adjustments were made.
I want to make sure everything is going to stay put before I go and have a professional alignment done.
While I was changing the diff at the weekend I noticed that the rear stabilizer link bush had completely failed on one side, there was some play on the top control rod (dog bone) of the same side and also the strut rod (camber) bushes looked to be in very bad shape.
I was looking at the total bushing kits availible from various places across the net but noticed that they lack both of the main peices I need from the rear... I was thinking of completely doing the rear and tackling the front at a later date but I'm unsure if this may give some adverse effects?
While I was at it I was looking at the adjustable rear strut rod links that eliminate the camber bolts, although this seems like a good idea would I see any real improvement over the stock setup? I'm looking to keep camber at around 0-.5neg
I'm really looking for the advice of those who have gone with urethne bush kits etc on a C4...
Are they worth the money?
Will I notice the difference?
If I can do all of them what are the MUST do's?
Thanks in advance!
Dan
Spend a couple minutes on our website and look under suspension parts. We stock all the bushings for the car, and actually know them not just a part number. They are worth the time and hassle of putting them in. At some point they will need to be regressed.
Randy
www.dougrippie.com
07-07-2009, 04:38 PM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hi Randy, just heading on over to your site now.
Can you just confirm that your happy to ship to England UK though? Also I'd love to get a shipped price on your DRM StifferChassis Bars for a C4 coupe... I think the shipping charge will knock this on the head for a while though.
Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $300-350 - best bang for the buck is where I'm looking right now!
Also whats your thoughts on the mix of stock front/uprated rear bushings?
Can you just confirm that your happy to ship to England UK though? Also I'd love to get a shipped price on your DRM StifferChassis Bars for a C4 coupe... I think the shipping charge will knock this on the head for a while though.
Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $300-350 - best bang for the buck is where I'm looking right now!
Also whats your thoughts on the mix of stock front/uprated rear bushings?
07-07-2009, 04:45 PM
#4
Race Director
First put some good shocks on. Then go to heim jointed parts instead of bushings.
07-07-2009, 04:51 PM
#5
Former Vendor
Hi Randy, just heading on over to your site now.
Can you just confirm that your happy to ship to England UK though? Also I'd love to get a shipped price on your DRM StifferChassis Bars for a C4 coupe... I think the shipping charge will knock this on the head for a while though.
Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $300-350 - best bang for the buck is where I'm looking right now!
Also whats your thoughts on the mix of stock front/uprated rear bushings?
Can you just confirm that your happy to ship to England UK though? Also I'd love to get a shipped price on your DRM StifferChassis Bars for a C4 coupe... I think the shipping charge will knock this on the head for a while though.
Right now I'm looking to spend no more than $300-350 - best bang for the buck is where I'm looking right now!
Also whats your thoughts on the mix of stock front/uprated rear bushings?
It's just a bit more work for us, but not a big deal.
We install rear only poly bushings all the time.
I will get back to you on shipping the chassis.
Randy
07-07-2009, 05:23 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
07-07-2009, 06:54 PM
#7
Race Director
Thank you! I hope to post some more soon! I wouldn't use KYB's for a car I wanted to handle real well. If they are easy on your back and you like them then that's OK. Those rear sway bar bushings were in the worst shape of any on the car for mine. They aren't that fun to replace so I went with heim links there. Same for the front.
The larger sway bars really helped the car feel solid in corners.
The larger sway bars really helped the car feel solid in corners.
07-08-2009, 03:01 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Unfortunately my budget doesnt run to going with new shockers all round but next time there up I will consider going with the biltstiens i think.
Where did you get them joints from? They look nice...
Where did you get them joints from? They look nice...
07-08-2009, 10:12 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
I bought the master bushing kit from energy suspensions. Found a place that also threw in extra lube. Had all the pieces I needed for everything except the sway bars. Ordered the sway bar kits for my size front and rear sway bars from Summit Racing.
It was time consuming, had a shop do the front upper A-arm replacement along with removing the ball joints. Had them replace the lower A-arm ball joints. I did not replace the bushings on the differential carrier. Everything else came out with c-clamps, ball joint tool, hack saw, screw drivers, sheer determination.
I also replaced all 4 wheel hubs, the half shaft U joints, and put rebuilt Bilstien FX3 shocks on it. It handles like a new car now, just need to fix the engine.
It was time consuming, had a shop do the front upper A-arm replacement along with removing the ball joints. Had them replace the lower A-arm ball joints. I did not replace the bushings on the differential carrier. Everything else came out with c-clamps, ball joint tool, hack saw, screw drivers, sheer determination.
I also replaced all 4 wheel hubs, the half shaft U joints, and put rebuilt Bilstien FX3 shocks on it. It handles like a new car now, just need to fix the engine.
07-08-2009, 10:27 AM
#12
Race Director
The link in my picture is from Guldstrand.com. They have front and rear for all year C4's. The front needed some filing on the LCA and checking of clearance with the bracket. For LCA bushings I'd make my own with delrin or buy some. Globalwest.net has del-a-lum bushings.
07-08-2009, 10:57 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Heim joints are really the way to go, however it's not a drop in replacement for the stock dog bones like urethan bushings. We have a full kit for trailing arms, camber rods and toe rods available here.
We have found a substantial improvement in handling on our C4 track car. I can quantify that by saying @ our home track of NHMS we picked up 2 seconds on a 90 second lap time on street tires and @ Lime Rock our timing equipment wasn't working but we had 11 mph more on the front straight and carried approximately 5 mph more through the first turn (large sweeping RH). That alone should gain us 1-2 sec on a 65 second lap time.
Keeping the adjustments you make for camber and toe in the rear are improved by changing to a hiem joint system and we feel our system has improvements over others that offer jam nuts.
Unfortunately all this comes at a cost which may be more than your budget right now but take a look anyway. Good luck.
We have found a substantial improvement in handling on our C4 track car. I can quantify that by saying @ our home track of NHMS we picked up 2 seconds on a 90 second lap time on street tires and @ Lime Rock our timing equipment wasn't working but we had 11 mph more on the front straight and carried approximately 5 mph more through the first turn (large sweeping RH). That alone should gain us 1-2 sec on a 65 second lap time.
Keeping the adjustments you make for camber and toe in the rear are improved by changing to a hiem joint system and we feel our system has improvements over others that offer jam nuts.
Unfortunately all this comes at a cost which may be more than your budget right now but take a look anyway. Good luck.
07-08-2009, 12:43 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Oct 2007
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Heim joints are really the way to go, however it's not a drop in replacement for the stock dog bones like urethan bushings. We have a full kit for trailing arms, camber rods and toe rods available here.
We have found a substantial improvement in handling on our C4 track car. I can quantify that by saying @ our home track of NHMS we picked up 2 seconds on a 90 second lap time on street tires and @ Lime Rock our timing equipment wasn't working but we had 11 mph more on the front straight and carried approximately 5 mph more through the first turn (large sweeping RH). That alone should gain us 1-2 sec on a 65 second lap time.
Keeping the adjustments you make for camber and toe in the rear are improved by changing to a hiem joint system and we feel our system has improvements over others that offer jam nuts.
Unfortunately all this comes at a cost which may be more than your budget right now but take a look anyway. Good luck.
We have found a substantial improvement in handling on our C4 track car. I can quantify that by saying @ our home track of NHMS we picked up 2 seconds on a 90 second lap time on street tires and @ Lime Rock our timing equipment wasn't working but we had 11 mph more on the front straight and carried approximately 5 mph more through the first turn (large sweeping RH). That alone should gain us 1-2 sec on a 65 second lap time.
Keeping the adjustments you make for camber and toe in the rear are improved by changing to a hiem joint system and we feel our system has improvements over others that offer jam nuts.
Unfortunately all this comes at a cost which may be more than your budget right now but take a look anyway. Good luck.
I am running this kit on my car and it did wonders to the handling! It is a bit pricey but less than competitive kits, and seems to be better built. Install was a snap and they are easily adjusted. I track my car as well as street driving and this kit doesnt squeak or make street driving any less pleasant. If you can I would buy from this guy.
