Opinions on sway bars/suspension for my C5 for HPDE...
07-29-2009, 10:19 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Opinions on sway bars/suspension for my C5 for HPDE...
I have a 2002 Z51 coupe and I already did a bolt kit. And then it quickly came out of alignment, after some reading I found out I should probably do bump stops up front (and might as well do the rear as well)... I then figured, while I'm there I might as well upgrade some other stuff...
Here's where the questions come in...
1 - Next step I want to do is sway bars... I was wondering if I should just do T1 F+R sways or if the T1s are 'too much' for a C5 on stock width tires? (17x8.5 / 18x9.5 - I'd like to do 18x9.5 / 18x12 later but this is what I got for now)
2 - I'd like to do a budget (read: used quite possibly) upgrade on my springs and shocks. I was thinking of doing used C6 Z51 springs and Bilstein shocks (someone has em for sale for $450 for the pair), good call or what should I look for used/cheap for springs shocks?
Thanks
Ryan
Here's where the questions come in...
1 - Next step I want to do is sway bars... I was wondering if I should just do T1 F+R sways or if the T1s are 'too much' for a C5 on stock width tires? (17x8.5 / 18x9.5 - I'd like to do 18x9.5 / 18x12 later but this is what I got for now)
2 - I'd like to do a budget (read: used quite possibly) upgrade on my springs and shocks. I was thinking of doing used C6 Z51 springs and Bilstein shocks (someone has em for sale for $450 for the pair), good call or what should I look for used/cheap for springs shocks?
Thanks
Ryan
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TwoTowns (08-20-2020)
07-30-2009, 10:08 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
Before we can help you you need to answer the question, "what do you want to do with the car?". If the answer is street use and some HPDE's, then you have started off in the wrong direction.
First off, lose the bolt kit and raise the car back up. These cars don't work if they are slammed. You need to have the proper ride height for the suspension geometry to work and if you lowered it that much it won't. One inch below stock is about the limit for lowering. Make sure that you have the proper rake and get a good performance alignment. Gorilla torque the excentrics so that they won't move.
Forget modifying the bump stops, see above...
It is far more important to upgrade your brakes with better pads and cooling ducts than it is to do a lot of suspension work, but that said, a crisper handling car will make the HPDE's more fun and, if you don't go crazy will make it more responsive on the street.
If you are doing HDPE's and using the car on the street, the C5 Z06 stuff (springs, bars and shocks) is a good starting place. It is a package and it all works together. You will have a balanced properly handling car with no funny quirks to learn to drive in. You can go about it in a piecemeal fashion, but unless you know what you are doing you can end up with a truly evil handling car, which is no fun on the track. I have seen about a bizzilion (ok, I'm exaggerating here a bit) folks come out and tell me how great handling their car is and then enumerate all the stuff they have done to make it handle so great, and when I drive it, the thing would be terrible on the track... They just didn't really know what good handling was.... but I digress..
A set of Bilstein or Koni's is a good upgrade for a double duty car, but leave the heavy duty springs and kidney belt shocks to the trailered cars.
With a balanced setup, a good alignment and a set of shocks at the most, you want to spend some money on wheels and tires. Get a set of used C5 Z06 wheels, they are light, inexpensive and wider than what you have on the car. Don't go all out to Hoosiers, but put a set of agressive tires on them and that should be a good starting place.
Believe me when I say that a setup like this is likely more car than any newbie will need on the track for a long while.
Hopefully this gets you pointed in the right direction. The good news is that if you do it smart it isn't all that expensive to set your car up.
First off, lose the bolt kit and raise the car back up. These cars don't work if they are slammed. You need to have the proper ride height for the suspension geometry to work and if you lowered it that much it won't. One inch below stock is about the limit for lowering. Make sure that you have the proper rake and get a good performance alignment. Gorilla torque the excentrics so that they won't move.
Forget modifying the bump stops, see above...
It is far more important to upgrade your brakes with better pads and cooling ducts than it is to do a lot of suspension work, but that said, a crisper handling car will make the HPDE's more fun and, if you don't go crazy will make it more responsive on the street.
If you are doing HDPE's and using the car on the street, the C5 Z06 stuff (springs, bars and shocks) is a good starting place. It is a package and it all works together. You will have a balanced properly handling car with no funny quirks to learn to drive in. You can go about it in a piecemeal fashion, but unless you know what you are doing you can end up with a truly evil handling car, which is no fun on the track. I have seen about a bizzilion (ok, I'm exaggerating here a bit) folks come out and tell me how great handling their car is and then enumerate all the stuff they have done to make it handle so great, and when I drive it, the thing would be terrible on the track... They just didn't really know what good handling was.... but I digress..
A set of Bilstein or Koni's is a good upgrade for a double duty car, but leave the heavy duty springs and kidney belt shocks to the trailered cars.
With a balanced setup, a good alignment and a set of shocks at the most, you want to spend some money on wheels and tires. Get a set of used C5 Z06 wheels, they are light, inexpensive and wider than what you have on the car. Don't go all out to Hoosiers, but put a set of agressive tires on them and that should be a good starting place.
Believe me when I say that a setup like this is likely more car than any newbie will need on the track for a long while.
Hopefully this gets you pointed in the right direction. The good news is that if you do it smart it isn't all that expensive to set your car up.
07-30-2009, 04:18 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Before we can help you you need to answer the question, "what do you want to do with the car?". If the answer is street use and some HPDE's, then you have started off in the wrong direction.
First off, lose the bolt kit and raise the car back up. These cars don't work if they are slammed. You need to have the proper ride height for the suspension geometry to work and if you lowered it that much it won't. One inch below stock is about the limit for lowering. Make sure that you have the proper rake and get a good performance alignment. Gorilla torque the excentrics so that they won't move.
Forget modifying the bump stops, see above...
It is far more important to upgrade your brakes with better pads and cooling ducts than it is to do a lot of suspension work, but that said, a crisper handling car will make the HPDE's more fun and, if you don't go crazy will make it more responsive on the street.
If you are doing HDPE's and using the car on the street, the C5 Z06 stuff (springs, bars and shocks) is a good starting place. It is a package and it all works together. You will have a balanced properly handling car with no funny quirks to learn to drive in. You can go about it in a piecemeal fashion, but unless you know what you are doing you can end up with a truly evil handling car, which is no fun on the track. I have seen about a bizzilion (ok, I'm exaggerating here a bit) folks come out and tell me how great handling their car is and then enumerate all the stuff they have done to make it handle so great, and when I drive it, the thing would be terrible on the track... They just didn't really know what good handling was.... but I digress..
A set of Bilstein or Koni's is a good upgrade for a double duty car, but leave the heavy duty springs and kidney belt shocks to the trailered cars.
With a balanced setup, a good alignment and a set of shocks at the most, you want to spend some money on wheels and tires. Get a set of used C5 Z06 wheels, they are light, inexpensive and wider than what you have on the car. Don't go all out to Hoosiers, but put a set of agressive tires on them and that should be a good starting place.
Believe me when I say that a setup like this is likely more car than any newbie will need on the track for a long while.
Hopefully this gets you pointed in the right direction. The good news is that if you do it smart it isn't all that expensive to set your car up.
First off, lose the bolt kit and raise the car back up. These cars don't work if they are slammed. You need to have the proper ride height for the suspension geometry to work and if you lowered it that much it won't. One inch below stock is about the limit for lowering. Make sure that you have the proper rake and get a good performance alignment. Gorilla torque the excentrics so that they won't move.
Forget modifying the bump stops, see above...
It is far more important to upgrade your brakes with better pads and cooling ducts than it is to do a lot of suspension work, but that said, a crisper handling car will make the HPDE's more fun and, if you don't go crazy will make it more responsive on the street.
If you are doing HDPE's and using the car on the street, the C5 Z06 stuff (springs, bars and shocks) is a good starting place. It is a package and it all works together. You will have a balanced properly handling car with no funny quirks to learn to drive in. You can go about it in a piecemeal fashion, but unless you know what you are doing you can end up with a truly evil handling car, which is no fun on the track. I have seen about a bizzilion (ok, I'm exaggerating here a bit) folks come out and tell me how great handling their car is and then enumerate all the stuff they have done to make it handle so great, and when I drive it, the thing would be terrible on the track... They just didn't really know what good handling was.... but I digress..
A set of Bilstein or Koni's is a good upgrade for a double duty car, but leave the heavy duty springs and kidney belt shocks to the trailered cars.
With a balanced setup, a good alignment and a set of shocks at the most, you want to spend some money on wheels and tires. Get a set of used C5 Z06 wheels, they are light, inexpensive and wider than what you have on the car. Don't go all out to Hoosiers, but put a set of agressive tires on them and that should be a good starting place.
Believe me when I say that a setup like this is likely more car than any newbie will need on the track for a long while.
Hopefully this gets you pointed in the right direction. The good news is that if you do it smart it isn't all that expensive to set your car up.
Well the thing I probably should have said was this. I'm not a newbie.
I've been doing track days in my car for some time. I was just strictly talking about suspension only... Here's some more info...
I have Carbotech XP10 pads in front and XP8s in rear. I run Nitto NT05s all around.
The car is lowered with a bolt kit but I wouldn't call it "slammed". It does, however, exhibit more body roll than I'd like, even tho it is a Z51 car. It came out of alignment because of the terrible streets we have in PA.
As far as the plans for "what I want to do with the car"...
I'm 24 and I don't car a ton about ride quality as the following is true...
1 - I'm not old and I don't have any back problems
2 - The car is driven on weekends and cruise nights on the street, and otherwise is a track-*****.
I basically am not a newbie to track racing however, I never really looked into more suspension modification out of my car before so I wanted to see what was next. Not to mention I didn't know until recently that you can fit C6 suspension components to C5s.
I do plan to upgrade to C5Z wheels (actually widened ones... 18x10.5 up front and widened 18x12s in rear) but not for a little while (probably next season). I want to do the suspension now however.
So with that said, what sways and springs/shocks should I get?
07-30-2009, 04:25 PM
#4
Drifting
If you want stock GM pieces, see chart below.......if you want aftermarket, the store is wide open.... just type www.fillintheblankhere.com (kidding) and you will probably land on a Corvette suspension site.!!
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
07-30-2009, 04:26 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
I installed the T1 sway bars on my 2004 Z06 last summer, and it made a nice improvement in handling on the track. The ride on the street is a bit harsh, but liveable. My suspension is otherwise stock, and I like the way the car handles with the T1s. You do need to dial in some negative camber, though.
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
07-30-2009, 04:32 PM
#6
I have the stock suspension on my '03 Z06 except T1 bars and Hoosier A6's for the track.
The car is balanced and a ball to drive!!
If you go with T1 bars, get the C6 rear bar which has 3 holes for adjustment, I use the inner stiffer setting and car rotates really well.
YMMV.
JRL
The car is balanced and a ball to drive!!
If you go with T1 bars, get the C6 rear bar which has 3 holes for adjustment, I use the inner stiffer setting and car rotates really well.
YMMV.
JRL
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
07-30-2009, 05:26 PM
#7
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I installed the T1 sway bars on my 2004 Z06 last summer, and it made a nice improvement in handling on the track. The ride on the street is a bit harsh, but liveable. My suspension is otherwise stock, and I like the way the car handles with the T1s. You do need to dial in some negative camber, though.
I have the stock suspension on my '03 Z06 except T1 bars and Hoosier A6's for the track.
The car is balanced and a ball to drive!!
If you go with T1 bars, get the C6 rear bar which has 3 holes for adjustment, I use the inner stiffer setting and car rotates really well.
YMMV.
JRL
The car is balanced and a ball to drive!!
If you go with T1 bars, get the C6 rear bar which has 3 holes for adjustment, I use the inner stiffer setting and car rotates really well.
YMMV.
JRL
Either of you guys know your alignment specs offhand?
07-30-2009, 05:47 PM
#8
Drifting
I run a similar setup for my C5Z. T1 bars, 04 shocks, hoosiers, full poly bushings.
I run -2 camber in front, -1.2 rear. Little toe out in front, in in back. Max caster. Lowered around an inch overall, rake is the same as stock. I wish I had adjustable rear bar.
I would run more camber with softer bushings, if you can get it.
I run -2 camber in front, -1.2 rear. Little toe out in front, in in back. Max caster. Lowered around an inch overall, rake is the same as stock. I wish I had adjustable rear bar.
I would run more camber with softer bushings, if you can get it.
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
07-30-2009, 10:14 PM
#10
Burning Brakes
Purchased a 99FRC last winter with the z51 package. I used it 4 track days and found that it handled good but was soft and had way too much body roll. I switched to the Hotchkiss sways (picked them up used really cheap) and bit the bullet with a set of LG Coilovers. On this set up I have 6 track days and love it. The coilovers are pricey but they are oh so nice. The difference in handling is not what I'd call dramatic, it was a nice handling car before and is even better now, but the superior ride and the ability to handle stutter bumps, quick transitions and other tricky situations is far superior. I really prefer this set up over stock on the street as well - the coilovers are quieter than the stock springs (like when going over washboard) and way better damped, the ride is firm but not punishing by any means. It was worth every penny.
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TwoTowns (07-18-2020)
07-31-2009, 03:50 AM
#12
it is very likely that you will get a lot more improvement from r compound tires than from mild upgrades to suspension as far as bang for the buck goes. also would give those XP10s something sticky to stop.
as others said, keep the ride height close to stock, factory bolts are just fine.
sway bars should be selected to match the rest of the suspension. you can take C5 or C6 Z06 rates/sway diameters from the table that was posted and use it as a starting point
as others said, keep the ride height close to stock, factory bolts are just fine.
sway bars should be selected to match the rest of the suspension. you can take C5 or C6 Z06 rates/sway diameters from the table that was posted and use it as a starting point
07-31-2009, 04:07 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
it is very likely that you will get a lot more improvement from r compound tires than from mild upgrades to suspension as far as bang for the buck goes. also would give those XP10s something sticky to stop.
as others said, keep the ride height close to stock, factory bolts are just fine.
sway bars should be selected to match the rest of the suspension. you can take C5 or C6 Z06 rates/sway diameters from the table that was posted and use it as a starting point
as others said, keep the ride height close to stock, factory bolts are just fine.
sway bars should be selected to match the rest of the suspension. you can take C5 or C6 Z06 rates/sway diameters from the table that was posted and use it as a starting point
07-31-2009, 08:08 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
RideZX6R
Sorry, didn't realize you weren't a newbie, the questions asked just sounded that way and I made a bad assumption...
A lot of the "wallowiness" (if that's a word) comes from shocks. A set of serious shocks will take away a lot of that. If you are this far along, maybe it's time to upgrade anyway. Shocks aren't that expensive and really can make a huge difference in grip and in the way the car feels.
As others here have noted going up to T1 bars would be a good next step after that. If you still aren't happy with it at that point you can go a set of Z06 or T1 springs.
The nice thing about doing it that way is that you always have a pretty well balanced setup at each stage, and each thing you do is incremental, you aren't buying one thing and then, if it doesn't work, are throwing that away and starting with something else. It can also be done over time with a minimal impact on your wallet at any one step.
One of the reasons you knocked the car out of alignment is that you likely were on the bump stops at one end or the other. Get it aligned, set to the right height and corner weighted as the first step in the whole process...
Have fun and be safe out there...
Sorry, didn't realize you weren't a newbie, the questions asked just sounded that way and I made a bad assumption...
A lot of the "wallowiness" (if that's a word) comes from shocks. A set of serious shocks will take away a lot of that. If you are this far along, maybe it's time to upgrade anyway. Shocks aren't that expensive and really can make a huge difference in grip and in the way the car feels.
As others here have noted going up to T1 bars would be a good next step after that. If you still aren't happy with it at that point you can go a set of Z06 or T1 springs.
The nice thing about doing it that way is that you always have a pretty well balanced setup at each stage, and each thing you do is incremental, you aren't buying one thing and then, if it doesn't work, are throwing that away and starting with something else. It can also be done over time with a minimal impact on your wallet at any one step.
One of the reasons you knocked the car out of alignment is that you likely were on the bump stops at one end or the other. Get it aligned, set to the right height and corner weighted as the first step in the whole process...
Have fun and be safe out there...
