m3to335

I'm trying to decide between running one piece Carbotech XP12's the Cobalt CSR's for the occasional track day. It seems that depending on who you talk to you will get mixed answers on both pads.

If you've had personal experience with one or both, please chime in regarding these questions.


1) How many typical events can you get out of a set.
2) If you were to drive them to and from the track, do they squeel like mad?
3) Which is more rotor friendly?
4) Have you run these up front with stock rears? If so, how did that react on the track?

Thanks!

waddisme

I have the XP12s for the front and 10s for the rear. I have about 7 track days on them at mostly VIR and Rd Atl. They are about 40% used. They suit me because they don't seem to have a radical initial bite which is fine because I still track with street tires. I get my full 30 min without any fade or noticeable drop in braking power. They squeal very little when driving to the track, and I have cracked 1 RF rotor in 7 track days. I have a set of the PFC99s fronts(that are on sale now) that I have run the last 4 track days. They have a little more initial bite, but do seem to soften towards the end of a session, but they stop. I bought a used set of PFC01s for the rear to go with these. I cracked another RF rotor at RD ATL 2 weeks ago after only 3 real track days with them(1 day was rain!!!!). I would choose the XPs over the 99s, especially for someone who is pretty aggressive as there seems to be plenty of XP12s left at the end of sessions. HTH.

m3to335

Thanks for the write up. How do you feel about running them up front with stock rears? I realize the majority of the braking is up front but I dont want my *** trying to play catch up.

You wouldn't by chance be going to VIR Sept 10th w/PCA would you? I should be there. Unfortunately advanced group is sold out, so its going to be interesting blowing around the intermediate guys.

0Vector Vette

I have run both brands. Both offer incredible stopping performance. However, there is no comparison when it comes to pad life and rotor wear. Cobalt Friction is far superior.

We have Cobalt Friction single piece pads in stock for the C6 Z06 in XR1, XR2, and CSR compounds. Give us a call if you want to try them out. Once you do, you won't be going back to any other pad.

Also, you don't want to run CSR or XP12 with stock rear pads. You will not have proper brake balance.

Robert Finlayson
Performance AFX Motorsports
815-254-2631

95jersey

I use the single pad for my C6Z and get several events (depends on the track, outside temp and how many sessions I run), but I got about 4-5 events out of a set before I retired them at 15% material.

Unfortunately I have had to modify my braking to make them last longer, but the 1/2 second I lose in lap times, is worth getting an extra event or two out of a set.

I find the XP pad in general pretty rotor friendly. In the last 2 years, I have only replaced 2-3 rotors from cracking. They actually last much longer than my C5 solid rotors (believe it).

Also, XP-12's are LOUD on the street. You car will sound MUCH worse than an 18 wheeler with a load of cargo. It can be done, but the noise will be louder than your radio cranked up.

You can run XP-12 with stock rears, but I found trail braking gets a little squirly and requires additional attention.

I run XP12 front and XP8 rear.

I have never tried Cobalts, as the price to date has turned me off. If they come down a bit, I would give them a try. I am just doing HPDE, not racing and personally don't need the best of the best.

0Vector Vette

True, Cobalt Friction pads are a little more money. However, if they last 2 to 3 times as long and don't tear up your rotors, which one is really cheaper?

drivinhard

I have run the XP8's/10s/12's

The 10's are 99% of the performance of the 12's with much more pad life. Just my experience

Lan.Jet

I used the Carbotech xp 10 and thought they stopped great but they were very loud and I wanted to use them on the track and on the street for the drive to the track. I then tried the Cobalt CSR they were a lot quieter and the dust was easier to deal with. I didn’t see a big difference on rotor life. I have run both with stock pads on the rear and they work ok. I now run the XP8’s on the rear and it is better but they do make more noise but I am to the point I really don’t care about the noise. I just want the performance on the track. I have now switched back to the XP10’s on the front because of price and performance. The CSR will not keep up if you are in the advanced groups you will need to use the XR2 if you go with Cobalts.
I also get the same life on both pads seven track days although it really depends on the track.

95jersey

So, if I get a 5 events out of a set of XP's, your saying Cobalts last 10-15 events? I would love to believe that, but not on a C6Z06. As far as price, I think the Carbotechs are way overpriced, let alone the Cobalts.

In my C5Z with wilwood SL6's, the pads would last that long, but not on my C6Z. I have tried 4 different manufacturers over 2+ years with the C6Z caliper (Carbotech, Hawk, RB, OEM), all in various compounds, and some were a little better than others, but they were all pretty much the same (wear wise). I'd love to beleive that Cobalts are magic, but I have a hard time beleiving they have figured out something all of the manufacturers have not.

As far as rotors, I have personally NEVER "worn out" a corvette rotor. I have only cracked them after many days of track duty. Maybe they were "worn out" but I never knew it? That said after running dozens of different pads over 2+ years, I still have one of the original rotors that came with the car (2006), and the others were only replaced once up to this point (8-10 events per year). So far the durability has been better than my C5 with solid rotors.

This is real feedback from an long time advanced HPDE driver. Not trying to sell anything and maybe others have had different experiences. Track conditions, temp, and driving style probably contribute quite a bit.

What I find different on the C6Z from the C5Z, is that I go through pads much quicker on the C6Z but the rotors last a bit longer (suprisingly). On the C5Z, I ate through rotors quickly but the pads lasted longer.

I'd love to hear from an advanced C6Z driver who has used both (XP and Cobalt) with some consistency.

I am not saying they are not a good product, but after trying dozens of pad compounds from several manufacturers, I have a hard time beleiving they last 2-3 times as long.

wtknght1

I disagree completely with that Robert. My last test at Sebring and Road Atlanta showed just the opposite. The wear rate for my car was virtually identical, but the Carbos were slightly thicker so I had a bit more left.

The performance, as you mentioned was nearly identical. I ran within .1 for each pad on 2 separate runs for each. The rotor wear was also a dead heat - both are very good.

For the record, I was using the XP12F and XP10R combination.

m3to335

How do Hawks fair, or should I even bring that up. I fainly remember hearing that the HP+ are decent for the track and are dusty as hell (not a huge issue) and that the HPS are just "ok" for the track and wear really quick.

m3to335

I didnt catch it in what you wrote... which do you think is the best bang for the buck?

wtknght1

The Hawk DTC 70s have more of an initial bite, but they don't hold up as well as the Carbotech XP12s for the whole race. The really down side to the Hawks is the corrosive brake dust...and rotor wear. Nasty!

95jersey

That is the hard part. I have personally never tried Cobalts (as stated), so I can not 100% tell you not to try them. Keep reading the posts in the thread, and you will come to the conclusion.

Or try them, and tell us exactly how they work?

Lan.Jet

I have tried three sets of the cobalt pad and went through three sets of rotors with them.
The last one only lasted a day and a half on your two piece rotors. It wasn’t cheaper for me.

waddisme

I have been with the PCA for their last 3 events there and hope to make this one. I am going Aug 28 and if my car doesn't throw the "Reduced Engine Power" code again, then hopefully there will be space left in the intermediate, so don't run me over. Car has been at the shop and pushed on the dyno and no code so hopefully it is fixed.

If you just scan the for sale section you can pick up a used set of rear pads for nothing and they will match up better. I bought used rear XP10s for like $80 and have over a 7 track days on them. When I got the PFC99s, I found a used set of 01s for the rear with only 1 session on them for $115 (about 1/2 price). Hope to see you at VIR.

BuckeyeZ06

My experience, albiet with a Viper not a Vette, is with Carbotechs and Hawks.

I like the Carbotechs better. I can go into turns much deeper than I could with the Hawks (which weren't bad brakes, please understand that). Wear on Viper brakes is not normally an issue...(eat your heart out T1 Corvette guys!).

Plus, the Carbotech gang are jsut good people, although the best of the bunch married into the family.

XotikVette

From my own experience I have found Carbotechs to be better. The modulation and being able to go deep into the corners; great! Not to mention the rotor wear! Hawk pads do have more of an initial bite, but I couldn't go as deep into the corners as I can with Carbotech. The Hawk pads don't seem to hold up as well either and the rotor wear and dust are horrific. I have tried the Cobalts and have found that the Carbotechs had more pad life left on them. The Cobalts I have found are a bit more pricey. The Carbotech gang are good people and are always willing to help out!

96solo

I've tried many types of the Carbotech pads over six years. I compete in the hottest part of the country...Arizona. In my mind, Carbotechs are the best for my track use.

Occassionally, I've try Hawks, Porterfields R4 and R4S and they just don't match in performance to the Carbotech is wear or in rotor life. I will say that for street use only, the Porterfield R4S is better than stock and keeps those wheels clean.

I've used different combinations of Carbotechs for Time Trials and National autocrosses. XP8's are great on rotors, and are a great pad for HPDE track days and street with no noise! Strong initial bite and good modulation. I love the XP10's though.

When I went to XP10's, I had to change my initial braking point by 25 feet! Wow! I've been told I'm very good on brakes. I don't through out the anchor, and I'm smooth rolling in and out of the brakes. But with that said, XP10's will crack Bendix stock rotors. I've gone as long as 8 events on a set with heat treated and cyrogenic Power Slots and LOVE IT! The Corvette is well balanced and the pads do not fade! With Power Rotors, the gas push back on deep braking zones, like turn 9 at PIR, is elliminated. The rotors are now just showing some minor hairline cracking in the center 1/2" of the rotor. Can't ask for more than that!


You can't get any better pad than Carbotech!

D.J. Covert

2008 NASA-AZ TTS Champion

Zenak

I out lived my Hawks. Went to the XP8 rather then more up in the Hawks again. LOVE THE BITE and stop... but if you street them at all noisey as hell. They groove the CRAP outa my rotors & started to warp them in 2 HPDE days. Even with cooling ducts in the front they spidered the entire rotor. I actually put a crack in one rotor (front left) at an event that spilt it like a slice into a pizza crust! The XP8 taperd relatively well. A tad more on the lead edge, but hey thats brake pads. They only gave me about 5-6 HPDE days and had 1/8 on them, and Im only intermediate skill set.

Nothing at all bad to say about the stopping power. Like velcro they grab! But between the heat, the rotor grooving, the rotor failure that went through 3 track HPDE days and were garbage.

I just ordered the XR2 Cobalts for my next set. More $$, but if they hold up longer (most people say its 2x longer) and dont chew up the rotors as bad (thats what I have been told) its all worth it. http://performanceafx.com was the cheapest I found anywhere. Robert was very very helpful in my questions.