F1 vs Moto GP...Are the cars way faster???
08-19-2009, 12:24 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
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Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
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F1 vs Moto GP...Are the cars way faster???
I've always wondered about lap time comparisons on identical circuits.
The cars certainly look a lot faster....am I wrong?
NO, here's the answer.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_an_F1_c...tter_lap_times
If an F1 car and MotoGP bike were to race on the same road course which would have the better lap times?
In: Formula One, Motorcycle Racing
Answer
In 2004, Mr V Rossi lapped the Sepang circuit in qualifying for the Malaysian Grand Prix in the very quick time of 2:01 (dry), that’s 2 mins and 1 sec. In the same year a Mr M Schumacher lapped the same circuit in the death defying time of 1 minute and 33seconds. This is a full 75% of the time a motorcycle takes. Or put another way; a F1 car can do 4 laps in the time a MotoGP cycles can do only 3.
So, that ends that.
Gav.
P.S. Cars are also fast at top speeds, ref Thrust SSC
Cars are faster accelerators, ref drag racing.
Cars are faster round circuits, ref F1 v MotoGP times.
Answer
Cars are quicker round bends due to a much higher percentage of tyre contact and downforce which adds up to much greater grip factor. Bikes accelerate faster as they have a better power to weight ratio.
The cars certainly look a lot faster....am I wrong?
NO, here's the answer.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/If_an_F1_c...tter_lap_times
If an F1 car and MotoGP bike were to race on the same road course which would have the better lap times?
In: Formula One, Motorcycle Racing
Answer
In 2004, Mr V Rossi lapped the Sepang circuit in qualifying for the Malaysian Grand Prix in the very quick time of 2:01 (dry), that’s 2 mins and 1 sec. In the same year a Mr M Schumacher lapped the same circuit in the death defying time of 1 minute and 33seconds. This is a full 75% of the time a motorcycle takes. Or put another way; a F1 car can do 4 laps in the time a MotoGP cycles can do only 3.
So, that ends that.
Gav.
P.S. Cars are also fast at top speeds, ref Thrust SSC
Cars are faster accelerators, ref drag racing.
Cars are faster round circuits, ref F1 v MotoGP times.
Answer
Cars are quicker round bends due to a much higher percentage of tyre contact and downforce which adds up to much greater grip factor. Bikes accelerate faster as they have a better power to weight ratio.
Last edited by NemesisC5; 08-19-2009 at 12:30 AM.
08-19-2009, 12:47 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Yeah, but my mom can drive a car! 
The odd thing is on some tracks the MotoGP bikes hit higher top speeds than F1 cars, or at least the 990cc bikes did, which means they accelarate harder. But they do not have a better power-to-weight ratio.
F1 car: 800hp and about 1,350 lb = ~0.59 HP/lb
MotoGP 990: 240HP and about 470lb = ~0.51 HP/lb
MotoGP 800: 220HP and about 470lb = ~0.47 HP/lb
The HP figures are just what is typically discussed in magazines and on TV.
To get the F1 ratio MotoGP needs 277HP
The odd thing is on some tracks the MotoGP bikes hit higher top speeds than F1 cars, or at least the 990cc bikes did, which means they accelarate harder. But they do not have a better power-to-weight ratio.
F1 car: 800hp and about 1,350 lb = ~0.59 HP/lb
MotoGP 990: 240HP and about 470lb = ~0.51 HP/lb
MotoGP 800: 220HP and about 470lb = ~0.47 HP/lb
The HP figures are just what is typically discussed in magazines and on TV.
To get the F1 ratio MotoGP needs 277HP
Last edited by Bimota Guy; 08-19-2009 at 12:59 AM.
08-19-2009, 01:13 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Here is an interesting comparison at Laguna Seca:
Jan Magnusson 2008 Pole in a Corvette C6R: 1:19.291
Casey Stoner 2008 Pole in a Ducati MotoGP: 1:20.700
Jan Magnusson 2008 Pole in a Corvette C6R: 1:19.291
Casey Stoner 2008 Pole in a Ducati MotoGP: 1:20.700
08-19-2009, 07:12 AM
#4
Team Owner
I timed the fastest bikes (I think) at Pocono and I can put down a slightly faster time on that course which has a bunch of turns.
08-19-2009, 08:40 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
08-20-2009, 12:36 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
08-20-2009, 10:19 AM
#12
Safety Car
As it's my home track, I watch about every race at Mid-Ohio.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
08-20-2009, 12:37 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
What happens if we take away the downforce, or at least minimize it? e.g off the shelf Z06 v GSXR or similar both with sticky tires...
Anyone have track data they can share from a race (or HPDE, TT) to be compared to a bike race at the same track? Maybe even T1 times
Anyone have track data they can share from a race (or HPDE, TT) to be compared to a bike race at the same track? Maybe even T1 times
08-20-2009, 12:45 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
Posts: 8,475
Received 331 Likes
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As it's my home track, I watch about every race at Mid-Ohio.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
Mid Ohio lap times 2009:
American Superbike qualifying times:
1 Tommy Hayden Rockstar/Makita/Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:25.054
2 Aaron Yates Jordan Suzuki Brand Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:25.190
3 Joshua Hayes Yamaha Motor Corp Yamaha R1 1:25.219
4 Ben Bostrom Yamaha Motor Corp Yamaha R1 1:25.544
5 Geoff May National Guard Jordan Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:25.566
6 Larry Pegram Pegram Racing Ducati 1098R 1:25.960
7 Jake Holden Holden Racing Honda CBR1000RR 1:26.025
8 Mat Mladin Rockstar/Makita/Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:26.035
9 Michael Laverty Celtic Racing Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:26.171
10 Blake Young Rockstar/Makita/Suzuki Suzuki GSX-R1000 1:26.604
11 Taylor Knapp Taylor Knapp Racing Buell 1125RR 1:26.810
12 Neil Hodgson Corona Extra Honda Honda CBR1000RR 1:27.242
IRL qualifying times:
Pos Driver Team Time
1. Ryan Briscoe Penske 1m06.6814s
2. Justin Wilson Coyne 1m06.7007s**
3. Scott Dixon Ganassi 1m07.0238s
4. Graham Rahal Newman/Haas/Lanigan 1m07.0640s**
5. Helio Castroneves Penske 1m07.1809s
6. Dario Franchitti Ganassi 1m07.3791s
7. Ryan Hunter-Reay Foyt 1m07.2364s
8. Tony Kanaan Andretti Green 1m07.5083s
9. EJ Viso HVM 1m07.5712s**
10. Paul Tracy KV 1m07.6129s**
11. Hideki Mutoh Andretti Green 1m07.6699s
12. Danica Patrick Andretti Green 1m07.7440s
13. Marco Andretti Andretti Green 1m08.1779s
14. Oriol Servia Newman/Haas/Lanigan 1m08.4314s**
15. Raphael Matos Luczo Dragon 1m08.2311s
16. Mike Conway Dreyer & Reinbold 1m08.5495s
17. Dan Wheldon Panther 1m08.8176s
18. Robert Doornbos HVM 1m08.5734s**
19. Richard Antinucci 3G 1m08.8516s
20. Milka Duno Dreyer & Reinbold 1m14.5371s
21. Ed Carpenter Vision 1m09.7141s
ALMS qualifying times:
1. de Ferran/Pagenaud de Ferran Motorsports Acura ARX-02a 1min 09.443secs LMP1
2. Brabham/Sharp Patron Highcroft Racing Acura ARX-02a 1min 09.512secs LMP1
3. Fernandez/Diaz Lowe's Fernandez Racing Acura ARX-01B 1min 10.464secs LMP2
4. Dyson/Smith Dyson Racing Lola B09/86-Mazda 1min 10.498secs LMP2
5. Leitzinger/Franchitti Dyson Racing Lola B09/86-Mazda 1min 11.042secs LMP2
6. Pickett/Graf Team Cytosport Porsche RS Spyder 1min 11.404secs LMP2
7. Field/Field Intersport Racing Lola B06/10-AER 1min 12.145secs LMP1
8. van der Steur/Pecorari van der Steur Racing Radical SR9 1min 15.898secs LMP2
9. Burgess/Drissi Autocon Lola B06/10-AER 1min 16.153secs LMP1
10. Bergmeister/Long Flying Lizard Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 1min 21.022secs GT2
11. Melo/Kaffer Risi Competizione Ferrari 430 1min 21.287secs GT2
12. Magnussen/O'Connell Corvette Racing Corvette C6.R 1min 21.454secs GT2
13. Muller/Milner Rahal Letterman Racing BMW E92 M3 1min 21.516secs GT2
14. Henzler/Ragginger Farnbacher Loles Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 1min 21.557secs GT2
15. Gavin/Beretta Corvette Racing Corvette C6.R 1min 21.571secs GT2
16. Hand/Auberlen Rahal Letterman Racing BMW E92 M3 1min 21.607secs GT2
17. Robertson/Robertson/Murry Robertson Racing Doran Ford GT Mk7 1min 22.092secs GT2
18. Farnbacher/James Panoz Team PTG Panoz Esperante 1min 22.259secs GT2
19. Law/Neiman Flying Lizard Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3 RSR 1min 26.003secs GT2
20. Baker/Cosmo ORBIT Racing Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 27.070secs Chal
21. Lewis/Vento Velox Motorsport Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 27.203secs Chal
22. Brown/Sweedler ORBIT Racing Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 28.247secs Chal
23. Snow/Snow Snow Racing Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 28.337secs Chal
24. Hoaglund/Faleta Gruppe Orange Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 28.423secs Chal
25. Parker/Pickering Gruppe Orange Porsche 911 GT3 Cup 1min 29.470secs Chal
26. Mowlem/Johansson Corsa Motorsports Ginetta-Zytek 09HS No time LMP1
08-20-2009, 01:06 PM
#15
Drifting
I understand the difference with full out race vehicles and downforce. How does the comparison play out with stock street vehicles?
My guess is that when it comes to street vehicles the general public can buy bikes spank cars on the street.
On a road race track it could go either way depending on track and conditions. Here's a road race track test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk And another: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5...-su_134080.htm
On a drag strip it's not even close for cars. Bone stock just about every 1000cc sport bike does the quarter right around 10 seconds . Here's a 0-180 mph test that was done last year: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewth...D=39520&FID=24
They're really two different animals. Here are a few significant differences.
1. A bike is way cheaper in purchase, maintenance, and consumables.
2. The bike's stock components will hold up to repeated track use (the brakes won't fade, and the engine won't over heat).
3. The bike requires physical fitness to ride fast. Fat and out of shape need not apply.
4. Cars are relatively safer and easier.
5. Even without down force stock high performance cars can brake and turn harder than bikes.
6. Bikes are affected more by road debris.
7. Cars keep you dry in the rain and cool when it's hot.
8. You can carry more shiit in a car.
9. Stock street bikes are much closer to race bikes in their design and performance than cars.
10. In CA where lane sharing is allowed, bikes are way faster in traffic. They also get much better gas mileage.
11. It's not a difference, but rather the most important similarity; They're both fun!!!
Dog
My guess is that when it comes to street vehicles the general public can buy bikes spank cars on the street.
On a road race track it could go either way depending on track and conditions. Here's a road race track test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk And another: http://videos.streetfire.net/video/5...-su_134080.htm
On a drag strip it's not even close for cars. Bone stock just about every 1000cc sport bike does the quarter right around 10 seconds . Here's a 0-180 mph test that was done last year: http://www.bikeland.org/board/viewth...D=39520&FID=24
They're really two different animals. Here are a few significant differences.
1. A bike is way cheaper in purchase, maintenance, and consumables.
2. The bike's stock components will hold up to repeated track use (the brakes won't fade, and the engine won't over heat).
3. The bike requires physical fitness to ride fast. Fat and out of shape need not apply.
4. Cars are relatively safer and easier.
5. Even without down force stock high performance cars can brake and turn harder than bikes.
6. Bikes are affected more by road debris.
7. Cars keep you dry in the rain and cool when it's hot.
8. You can carry more shiit in a car.
9. Stock street bikes are much closer to race bikes in their design and performance than cars.
10. In CA where lane sharing is allowed, bikes are way faster in traffic. They also get much better gas mileage.
11. It's not a difference, but rather the most important similarity; They're both fun!!!
Dog
Last edited by meldog21; 08-20-2009 at 01:28 PM.
08-21-2009, 12:15 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
As it's my home track, I watch about every race at Mid-Ohio.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
The fastest bikes I've seen (unsure of the class, though) lap in the mid 1:20's, around 1:25 - 1:26.
Last weekend the Indy cars were lapping in the 1:07 range. I'd imagine an F1 car would be even quicker.
GT1 Corvettes run about 1:18.
Bikes can accellerate like a cheetah on crack, but a car can carry significantly more speed though every corner. It all adds up to higher average speed.
One of the magazines (R&T?) did a comparo a few years back with the best of the street machines. I believe it was a Hyabusa vs. a Viper. Overall lap times were very close. While way heavier, the Viper had better grip and less sensitivity to track conditions, such as gravel on the surface. The bike owned every speed category, though.
08-21-2009, 12:18 AM
#18
Burning Brakes
Big Willow - SCCA T1 record is 1:27.491 (Scotty in the Viper) and I have done 1:28.5 in my T1 car on Hoosier A6. My buddy's lightly modified GSXR1000 goes 1:27s and some of his friends on similar bikes are several seconds faster.
Last edited by Bimota Guy; 08-21-2009 at 12:22 AM. Reason: exact lap record
08-21-2009, 12:59 AM
#19
Le Mans Master
Yeah, back in the day, C&D let Danny Ongais run both the Porsche 930 turbo and a turbocharged Kawasaki 1000 on a road course. Danny managed to blow up BOTH engines, BUT, he said that "At the start finish line, the Porsche was running 135mph, and the kawasaki was running 160mph!!!"
08-21-2009, 01:11 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
In 2006, the latest and currently last time CART and F1 ran on the same track (Circuit Gilles Villeneuve in Montreal, Canada), Formula One was 5 to 7 seconds faster than Champ Car. The pole position in Formula 1 was set by Fernando Alonso in a time of 1:14.942, while Sébastien Bourdais set pole in 1:20.005 in Champ Car. The fastest lap in the Formula 1 race was 1:15.841 by Kimi Räikkönen, while Sébastien Bourdais' fastest lap was 1:22.325 in the Champ Car race.